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4 or 8 core Mac?

Mike 35
Hi

Following a break-in to my studio on Saturday my 2.5 yr old Mac Pro was stolen. I am in a position to replace it through insurance but am a bit confused as what Mac to buy. I am based in the UK, if this helps.

My old machine was a Mac Pro 8 core 2.8ghz, originally with 4gb ram but I had upgraded to 8gb last year. Jigsaw, my local supplier have specced the following machine, Mac Pro 8 core 2.4ghz 6gb ram. This machine is significantly dearer than the old one. A graphic designer who buys Macs for the agency I work with thinks that I may be better off with a faster processor 4 core machine as he is unsure that I will take advantage of the 8 core.

I currently use C1 pro tethered with a 5D 11 for capture and conversion of studio work, Lightroom for editing and processing anything shot to CF cards and CS5 for retouching. Normally I would do my research but this is an emergency purchase so I don't have the time to spend 2-3 weeks pondering. Would I see the advantages of 8 core with C1? I also lost a 30 inch and 20 inch ACD and am wondering whether I would be better off replacing them with 2 of the newer 27inch Apple displays.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Mike
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    In the current Mac Pro's range of processors (cores, speed), I consider the 6-core version the sweet spot.
    For an overview see http://www.barefeats.com/nehal17.html

    The 6-core model has the newer processor type (Westmere), high clock speed (3.33 GHz), bigger L3 cache, highest memory speed (1333 MHz) and does not induce too much overhead which comes with the multi-multi-core (8- or 12-core) models.
    Note that the 6-core processor will already introduce itself to OS X and applications as a 12-core anyway due to hyperthreading in the processor. This is currently more than your applications can take.

    The 8-core 2.4 GHz is really something to stay away from. I am sorry for your dealer.

    And if you still have some money to spend and look for a performance boost, include one or more of those SSDs in your setup.
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  • Jonathan Gilbert
    Capture One will utilize up to 32 cores. You cant really go wrong with either 6 core or 8 core as long as you go with the Westmere processors... its more about what you want to spend.
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  • Mike 35
    Many Thanks,

    I will take a look at at the 6 core machine.

    Cheers

    Mike.
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  • Nicolas
    hmmm
    I'm also on the market for a new machine (mainly for C1 and CS5)
    I'd like to understand, what 6 core machine?

    On the French Apple Store one can find only:
    - Quad-Core made of 1 Quad-Core Intel Xeon « Nehalem » @ 2,8 GHz
    - 8-Core made of 2 Quad-Core Intel Xeon « Westmere » @ 2,4 GHz
    - 12-Core made of 2 Intel Xeon 6-Core « Westmere » 2,66 GHz

    Of course the latter being the more expensive…
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Nicholas,
    The 6-core model is a customization of the quad-core. Choose the latter and see the customization options.
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  • Nicolas
    Thanks Paul for the clarification.
    And then the Quadcore becomes "Westmere"… Magic !

    BUT

    2 Quad-Core Intel Xeon « Westmere » @ 2,4 GHz (8 cores) - 8 Gb of Ram = 3.549,00 € VAT included
    1 Intel Xeon 6-Core « Westmere » à 3,33 GHz - 8 Gb of Ram = 3.974,00 € VAT included

    Not that much difference of price… Then what comes better?
    6-core @ 3,33 GHz?
    or
    8-core @ 2,4 GHz?
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Nicholas, as I stated earlier in this thread, I would prefer the 6-core for the higher clock speed and fewer multi-core overhead (symmetric multiprocessing does not scale linear). Although CO5 does scale pretty good, CS5 does not (CS4 slowed down on > 4 cores, not sure about CS5). The Barefeats site (see my previous post) is one of the better sources for this as is Lloyd Chamber's posting (link in same page below). Note that the 3.33 GHz 6-core does have a higher memory speed than the 2x 4-core @ 2.4 GHz (1333 versus 1066 MHz), which impacts performance noticeable. My 2 cts.
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  • Nicolas
    Thanks Paul
    that makes sense, my remark was also to Jon as he stated:
    You cant really go wrong with either 6 core or 8 core as long as you go with the Westmere processors... its more about what you want to spend.
    as in the case I wrote the price difference is not that big… and comes relatively narrowed if you add to both configuration SSD drives more RAM, 2 Tb drives etc…
    Thanks for your input. As always in this forum!
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  • Tim Ernst
    How about RAM? With the 6 core you can only go up to 32gb, but with the 8 core you can put in up to 64gb. When working with big files (i.e., stitches or layered) will this increased memory help speed things up? Posted tests seem to indicate that sometimes more RAM is better than faster processor (but more cores can be slower), sometimes faster processor is better than more RAM - hence the confusion by many folks wanting to upgrade.
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  • Drew Altdo
    RAM abides by one simple rule...
    "Buy as much as you can afford or as much as your system can take, whichever comes first"

    I think that was Confucius but I can't be certain.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="Tim Ernst" wrote:
    How about RAM? With the 6 core you can only go up to 32gb, but with the 8 core you can put in up to 64gb.

    Yeah, how about it? 😉 Good point. Let's have a look.
    [quote="Tim Ernst" wrote:
    How about RAM? With the 6 core you can only go up to 32gb, but with the 8 core you can put in up to 64gb.

    According to both the Apple and Kingston site, the Mac Pro (mid 2010) 1 CPU models max. at 16 GB (4x 4 GB) and the 2 CPU models at 32 GB (8 x 4 GB). How do you assess your needs? Should you buy the max. amount from the start or upgrade later? As you can see from the Apple store configurator, most configuration use all available positions with lower capacity DIMMs: A 8 GB configuration is made of 4x 2 GB and not 2x 4 GB. Why, because it's cheaper. As a result upgrading means replacing existing RAM. So I think Drew's Confucianism comes into play here. 😉

    In general, an amount of 12-16 GB for the 1 CPU model is something a photographer would not outgrow fast in my opinion. You need 64-bit applications to really take advantage of that amount. But you buy a Mac Pro today for the next 3-5 years to come, so you want some room to grow. Fortunately, the OS X's Activity Monitor tool is a great and convenient help to assess your use and need. No need for confusion in this department, it is pretty straightforward to determine the bottleneck in a configuration. Rule of thumb is that no speedy processor will help an under-stuffed RAM configuration. With sufficient RAM however, it is the processor and the disk that determine the overall performance.

    It's a balancing act.
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  • rap_digital
    You can install 3x8gb memory modules in the 2010 single cpu Mac pro. Get them from Macsales and save big time.
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  • Mike 35
    Update...

    Based on Pauls suggestion I ordered the 6 core Mac with 10g of RAM which arrived yesterday. Early days yet but it does appear to be much faster with C1. 8bit tiffs from the 5D 2 take approx 3 seconds each to process, on my old Mac it was more like 6 seconds. Its also much quicker to move around the viewer window at 100% than my old machine.

    I'm afraid that I couldn't stretch to a SSD, the 6 core machine was nearly £500.00 dearer than the 8 core that I was originally looking at.

    Thanks again Paul,

    Cheers

    Mike.
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  • Stretch Tuemmler
    I too am on the fence on a new shooting station, currently I shoot to my MacBookPro which is just too slow for the P65. I also have a 8-core Mac Pro (Two 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 5500 series processors) which we use for imaging. In the end I need to stations, imaging & shooting. The imaging station really need to be whatever will be fastest working in Photoshop. Not really sure how many cores CS5 is making use of. Currently this machine has 8G of ram which I am planning to upgrade to 24 G. I 'm thinking not enough ram is my biggest problem.

    For my new station I have a choice between a 6 core with a faster processor: One 3.33GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere†for $3700

    Or an 8 core with a slower processor: Two 2.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere†(8 cores) for $3400

    After reading Lloyd Chambers' post It seems like a wash in C1, 2 cores but a slower processor or 1 core and a faster processor:
    http://macperformanceguide.com/Shootout ... ssing.html
    PhaseONE CaptureONE Pro is the only RAW converter that improves in a worthwhile way with 8 cores. It still fails to use all CPU resources, but at least it makes use of ~5+ cores.

    CaptureONE Pro offers a 21% reduction in processing time on the 8-core 2.93GHz, taking 26% longer on the 3.33Ghz quad-core.

    Then which will be the best running Photoshop CS5 where we are typically working in 2 G files with lots of layers? And second which will give me a fast screen draw in C1? Of course the other part of this is how much ram? I know, as much as you can afford. I'm thinking 24 G again.

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Mac-Upgr ... emory.html

    Thanks in advance,

    Stretch
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