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Search Filter

nighthawk
New Capture One user here.

I love the app, everything about it compared to the competition is better IMO. But does Phase One intend to ever fix the "Return results for all criteria" option in the Filter tool?

From my limited testing, I found out that if I select a color tag and a keyword, the "Return results for all criteria" works as expected (uses "OR" if not checked and "AND" if checked). However, selecting 2 keywords always results in an "OR", regardless of whether the option is checked.

End result, I can search for all my green tagged photos with the "landscape" keyword, but I cannot filter for all my photos with keywords "landscape" AND "black and white". Regardless of whether the "Return results for all criteria" option is checked or not, I will always get all photos with either "landscape", or "black and white" or both. What I want is all photos with BOTH only.

I first noticed this on a friend's Capture One 9.0, and thought it would be fixed by now. But I now downloaded the latest 9.1.1 trial and it's STILL not working as expected, and it's the only thing that's really killing the experience for me. Has anyone noticed the same issue, or am I missing some obvious option or something?

The long winded workaround is to go to the filter dialog and input the rules manually, but that is very cumbersome, having to select "Keywords" then "Contains" then type the keyword manually and repeat for all keywords, rather than picking them out from the keyword list.

Thanks and Regards,
Dennis
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  • John Doe
    I had never tested it, but you're right: it doesn't work as it should.

    Have you filed a bug report? That's the only way to get it acknowledged by Phase One.
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  • SFA
    I think it does work as intended.

    It offers some basic selection criteria always using OR criteria across "standard" options - pick one from the list in each catergory.

    Beyond that use the Advanced search and get more flexibility.

    Anything in the middle starts to get kind of messy to define.

    One can, of course, save the Advanced Search for future use - as is or modified.

    We are talking here about a relatively simple photo DAM requirement on the back of a RAW converter program not a major SQL reporting tool designed for a highly complex database application that might be used for anything.

    One might consider having a drop down list of available keywords in the current selection - but then if you want to use the much freer concept of "contains" that would be irrelevant. It might work for "Equals" or "Not equal to" but realistically how often do you need to use multiple searches that are highly variable at all levels - especially multiple keyword sets that have never been used before?

    If you regularly use "Landscape" and "black and white" create the advanced search and save it it for future use. When you use it you can add more criteria as you see fit.

    The current design offers a fast to select "OR" option and a not too slow "AND" option. I suspect anything else would be overkill.

    However, there's no harm in asking for it via a Support Case "Enhancement Request:" as John Doe suggested.


    Grant
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  • John Doe
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    I think it does work as intended.

    It offers some basic selection criteria always using OR criteria across "standard" options - pick one from the list in each catergory.

    Then what is the point of the "Results Match All Criteria" option? Having it checked or unchecked doesn't change anything, so I maintain it is a bug.
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  • nighthawk
    I also think this is a bug. If it is as intended then it is extremely misleading. Unfortunately this is a feature I use very often and every other DAM, including Lightroom which I am also trialing, does this. In fact, I've seen it in action so many times that once I saw the filter window in C1 similar to all other DAM's I've seen, I immediately expected it to work like all the rest 😄 - i.e. the result set keeps getting smaller and smaller with every keyword selected. I don't classify that as an "advanced search". There's no wildcards or ranges or combinations of "AND" and "OR". Just basic keyword matching.

    I've been very disciplined and went through the trouble of keywording all my photos with many keywords to be as specific as possible, with the intention of being able to find a particular photo or set of photos with this very feature.

    I have sent a tech support message so we'll see what they respond 😉
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  • SFA
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    I think it does work as intended.

    It offers some basic selection criteria always using OR criteria across "standard" options - pick one from the list in each catergory.

    Then what is the point of the "Results Match All Criteria" option? Having it checked or unchecked doesn't change anything, so I maintain it is a bug.


    It works for me.

    Select multiple filters in the Filters tool (default location in the Library tab) using CTRL-click on each radio button.

    See the results.

    The change the "Results match all criteria" option and they change.

    If you then go to the Advanced Search facility they will appear as active filters.

    If you change the "Results match ...." option in the filter tool it does not obviously seem to change the equivalent (and uneditable?) setting in the Advanced Search tool but that may be a cosmetic thing only since the search selection does change.

    Are you seeing something different (I'm using 9.1.1).


    Grant
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  • John Doe
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    I think it does work as intended.

    It offers some basic selection criteria always using OR criteria across "standard" options - pick one from the list in each catergory.

    Then what is the point of the "Results Match All Criteria" option? Having it checked or unchecked doesn't change anything, so I maintain it is a bug.


    It works for me.

    Select multiple filters in the Filters tool (default location in the Library tab) using CTRL-click on each radio button.

    See the results.

    The change the "Results match all criteria" option and they change.

    Doesn't work here. We're talking about multiple /keywords/, mind you. If I select a keyword and a date, for instance, the "Results Match All Criteria" works just fine.
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  • SFA
    Strange.

    Windows or Mac? If Windows, which version?

    Can you select multiple keywords as filters?

    Then go to the Advanced search and check if they are being displayed as existing filters before adding any search criteria.

    If those basics pass the test then something else is going on that we have yet to uncover.


    Grant
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  • John Doe
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Strange.

    Windows or Mac? If Windows, which version?

    Everything is in my signature. Latest version of CO and of OS X.

    Can you select multiple keywords as filters?

    Sure. Cmd+clic on OS X.

    Then go to the Advanced search and check if they are being displayed as existing filters before adding any search criteria.

    Yes, but they are shown under a "Match <any> of these rules" heading, whether the "Results Match All Criteria" option is selected or not. If I then select a date as an additional filter, the "Results Match All Criteria" works fine for this additional criteria but the Search windows shows it under the same heading (which it shouldn't).
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  • SFA
    I seemed to recall you are a Mac user but reviewing the posts when replying does not display the signature section.

    All I can really say is that it seems to work for me using Windows 7.

    The concept that the selected filters become "enforced" as a set when working with the Advanced Search facility (with the potential for creating an album of either sort) don't worry me for practical use purposes. In fact it seems logical.

    I will admit that I am not attempting to compare it with any filtering and search options from other applications.

    That said by all means question the logic s and make alternative proposals through the normal channel.

    Grant
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  • John Doe
    Well, all I know is it doesn't work as intended, so IMHO there's a bug. I'll file a bug report tomorrow to see what support has to say about it.
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  • nighthawk
    I did send a message to tech support a few days ago but I still don't have a case opened in My Pages. Not sure if I did anything wrong but I couldn't find any other way of filing a bug report.

    In any case, I really hope they fix (or implement... see my reasoning below) this.

    PS. I'm on Windows 10 but I'm 100% sure Windows 7 would be the same.

    SFA, select 1 keyword... how many results do you have? Now, CTRL-Click another keyword. Do you have LESS results or MORE?
    My "expected behaviour" is that I have LESS results if the "Results match all criteria" is checked, and MORE if it is unchecked. But currently on my system it is not working that way.

    I thought further about this and my conclusion is that I do understand the logic behind the way it is working at the moment. In that you cannot select 2 color tags and expect an "AND" on them as that will obviously result in 0 results. Similarly, metadata, you cannot have a photo taken with an 85mm and 50mm lens at the same time. Hence the "OR" applied if you select both lenses. They are probably applying the same logic to each "category" of filter (color tag, rating, metadata, etc). The "Results match all criteria" ANDs the selections across categories, but OR's the selections within each category.

    So technically it might not be a bug but a sorely missing feature. There really should be an explicit option specifically for the keywords part ("contains all" or "contains any").

    Really cracking RAW converter though. Enjoying every second using it till now since I only have around 500 images in my catalog. By the time my catalog gets much bigger I hope this feature request becomes reality.
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  • John Doe
    [quote="nighthawk" wrote:
    I did send a message to tech support a few days ago but I still don't have a case opened in My Pages. Not sure if I did anything wrong but I couldn't find any other way of filing a bug report.

    IIRC, when you submit a case, you have to confirm twice by clicking on "submit". Is your case listed when you go to https://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain ... Cases.aspx ? If not then it was not submitted properly.

    SFA, select 1 keyword... how many results do you have? Now, CTRL-Click another keyword. Do you have LESS results or MORE?
    My "expected behaviour" is that I have LESS results if the "Results match all criteria" is checked, and MORE if it is unchecked. But currently on my system it is not working that way.

    I don't know if I'm doing anything wrong, but I tried with dates and I think it doesn't work either. Seems that you can't select several criteria IN THE SAME CATEGORY and have your images filtered as they should be. For instance I selected "April 2016" (31 images tagged with this criteria) and "Monday 18" (8 images tagged with this criteria) and it doesn't work : whether "Results Match All Criteria" is selected or not, I always get 31 images filtered. If it worked right I think I should get 8 images when the option is selected (April AND Monday), and 31 when it's not (April OR Monday).

    ... Wrote this before reading your next paragraph, where you seem to confirm my findings:
    I thought further about this and my conclusion is that I do understand the logic behind the way it is working at the moment. In that you cannot select 2 color tags and expect an "AND" on them as that will obviously result in 0 results. Similarly, metadata, you cannot have a photo taken with an 85mm and 50mm lens at the same time. Hence the "OR" applied if you select both lenses. They are probably applying the same logic to each "category" of filter (color tag, rating, metadata, etc). The "Results match all criteria" ANDs the selections across categories, but OR's the selections within each category.
    So technically it might not be a bug but a sorely missing feature. There really should be an explicit option specifically for the keywords part ("contains all" or "contains any").

    I do agree. I've just filed a bug report, #217420.
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  • John Doe
    Thought a bit more about it and actually I think it should always work as it says : "Results Match All Criteria".

    So even with color tags, if you select several colors and you have "Results Match All Criteria" ticked, then it should yield 0 results even if it doesn't make sense.

    The point I want to make is that the software should behave consistently, whatever criteria you select : if you ticked "Results Match All Criteria", then you get what you asked for. If the user always has to wonder if the software applies an OR to this set of criteria or an AND to another set of criteria, then I think it's a bad design choice and harms the software's usability.
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  • Uli Lernhardt
    Until the release of C1 9.0, I used lightroom 5.0. The change to C1 was driven by the phantastic possibilities in Raw developmemt. But sometimes I am disapointed about the user interface and the "data handling" abilities of C1. YES! There is a bug in the filter tool. Consequently, filtering makes no sense, if the filter logic is partly "AND" and partly "OR".
    I found out, that a complex filter dialog exists, where I can combine several keywords in an "AND" logical filter set. This will be far more easy in the basic filter by simply clicking these keywords.
    Well, I will open a support case, to adress this topic.
    Uli L 😕
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  • nighthawk
    So... anyone got a reply from tech support? 😄
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  • John Doe
    Just received a promising reply from tech support:

    "Hi John,

    This is a reported feature that needs to be revised. We are aware of the "issue" with this feature and many users have talked about it.

    I have documented your case, as well as the forum discussion in our report. Thank you for the valuable feedback as we are investigating how we can change the way "Match All Criteria"/ "And" / "Or" works.

    Kind regards,

    Phase One Technical Support"
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  • nighthawk
    Great news. Good to know they are already on it. Thanks for the update John.

    Hopefully the next C1 update will fix this tool as I am completely sold on the rest of it 😁
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