Toggling layers very slow
Hi all!
I'm currently trying to see whether I should switch from Lightroom to Capture One. I've installed C1 12.1 and I'm playing around a bit.
One major negative thing I've notice is toggling layers is very slow. This unfortunately reflects also on temporarily resetting a variant, basically C1 version of Lightroom before/after which I definitely use a lot.
I'm talking about 3 seconds to toggle a layer even if the layer has no mask and no adjustments. Same time to temporarily reset a variant - and of course other 3 seconds to go back to the edited version - again even with just one empty layer.
Is this something anybody else is experiencing? Any suggestions on how to avoid this?
Thanks in advance for your help.
I'm currently trying to see whether I should switch from Lightroom to Capture One. I've installed C1 12.1 and I'm playing around a bit.
One major negative thing I've notice is toggling layers is very slow. This unfortunately reflects also on temporarily resetting a variant, basically C1 version of Lightroom before/after which I definitely use a lot.
I'm talking about 3 seconds to toggle a layer even if the layer has no mask and no adjustments. Same time to temporarily reset a variant - and of course other 3 seconds to go back to the edited version - again even with just one empty layer.
Is this something anybody else is experiencing? Any suggestions on how to avoid this?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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more information would help.
system spec for one..0 -
I am not experiencing anything like that. I have near instantaneous toggling of layers and before after. If you work with images in your local HD does it make a difference? 0 -
[quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
more information would help.
system spec for one..
Intel Core i7-2700K 3.5 GHz, Corsair Vengeance 12 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz, Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD
Anything else that might be relevant?[quote="IanL" wrote:
I am not experiencing anything like that. I have near instantaneous toggling of layers and before after. If you work with images in your local HD does it make a difference?
Unfortunately they are already there.0 -
hmm, has to be something stopping C1 using your hardware to it's potential - i've tried turning off GPU acceleration and I still get instant preview of layers when I turn them off and on..
perhaps deleting the prefs? https://www.phaseone.com/en/search/arti ... nguageid=1 and letting C1 rebuild?0 -
[quote="NNN636986154846451130" wrote:
I'm talking about 3 seconds to toggle a layer even if the layer has no mask and no adjustments. Same time to temporarily reset a variant - and of course other 3 seconds to go back to the edited version - again even with just one empty layer.
What is the purpose of a layer with no mask? (and no adjustment but then without a mask the adjustment has no purpose anyway.)0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="NNN636986154846451130" wrote:
I'm talking about 3 seconds to toggle a layer even if the layer has no mask and no adjustments. Same time to temporarily reset a variant - and of course other 3 seconds to go back to the edited version - again even with just one empty layer.
What is the purpose of a layer with no mask? (and no adjustment but then without a mask the adjustment has no purpose anyway.)
It was just to say that it's as slow even when a layer has nothing on it.0 -
[quote="NNN636986154846451130" wrote:
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="NNN636986154846451130" wrote:
I'm talking about 3 seconds to toggle a layer even if the layer has no mask and no adjustments. Same time to temporarily reset a variant - and of course other 3 seconds to go back to the edited version - again even with just one empty layer.
What is the purpose of a layer with no mask? (and no adjustment but then without a mask the adjustment has no purpose anyway.)
It was just to say that it's as slow even when a layer has nothing on it.
OK, so how many layer are we looking at for the image. Does it matter whether the image has 1 layer or 15? (With or without and masks/changes defined.)0 -
[quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
hmm, has to be something stopping C1 using your hardware to it's potential - i've tried turning off GPU acceleration and I still get instant preview of layers when I turn them off and on..
perhaps deleting the prefs? https://www.phaseone.com/en/search/arti ... nguageid=1 and letting C1 rebuild?[quote="SFA" wrote:
OK, so how many layer are we looking at for the image. Does it matter whether the image has 1 layer or 15? (With or without and masks/changes defined.)
This appears to have sped things up to some degree. I did it already but I missed the folder in C:\ProgramData and it seems that was indeed a relevant one.
At this point something odd seems to be happening - and the number of layers apparently doesn't matter. I've got this test image which has 6 layers, all of them just some brush strokes with some exposure variation. I start C1 and I can toggle layers individually and everything is fairly smooth and I can temporarily toggle all variant's changes off as quickly.
The problem is the more I temporarily reset the variant the slow the operation gets. After having done that 15 times it takes 2/3 seconds to toggle changes off and 3/4 seconds to enable them again. At that point event switching layers on/off gets slow, about 2 seconds. In all of this the CPU never gets used 100%.0 -
Looking at task manager my system doesn't even blink when I turn layers on or off - be it CPU or GPU. Could it be something to do with Windows rather than C1?
Have you tried turning Hyperthreading off?0 -
[quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
Looking at task manager my system doesn't even blink when I turn layers on or off - be it CPU or GPU. Could it be something to do with Windows rather than C1?
Have you tried turning Hyperthreading off?
Same instant behaviour on my system, suggests something not quite right..0 -
My GPU usage is not moving that much but the CPU one definitely is, it might not get to 100% but it does get as high as 80%.
I'm wondering whether that's expected since the CPU is 7 years old... I'm might try and format Windows which I haven't reinstalled in ages.0 -
Right so out of curiosity I formatted my PC and started from scratch, unfortunately the problem persist.
Just to be clear the problem is not toggling layers per se, after a clean install of C1 and even now after formatting turning layers on/off is as quick as expected.
The issue is the more I temporarily reset a variant the more that operation and toggling layers get slow. As said before, after resetting about 15 times toggling layers takes around 2 seconds while it was basically immediate right after launching C1. Switching to a different variant and going back doesn't help, a variant reset too many times stay slow until C1 is restarted.
It seems temporarily resetting is not something that can be used as often as Lightroom's before/after. It this happening to anybody else?
Edit: I noted that if I clone a "slow" variant toggling layers get fast again for the cloned version, also resetting a "slow" variant - not temporarily - does the trick too...0 -
[quote="NNN636986154846451130" wrote:
Right so out of curiosity I formatted my PC and started from scratch, unfortunately the problem persist.
Just to be clear the problem is not toggling layers per se, after a clean install of C1 and even now after formatting turning layers on/off is as quick as expected.
The issue is the more I temporarily reset a variant the more that operation and toggling layers get slow. As said before, after resetting about 15 times toggling layers takes around 2 seconds while it was basically immediate right after launching C1. Switching to a different variant and going back doesn't help, a variant reset too many times stay slow until C1 is restarted.
It seems temporarily resetting is not something that can be used as often as Lightroom's before/after. It this happening to anybody else?
Edit: I noted that if I clone a "slow" variant toggling layers get fast again for the cloned version, also resetting a "slow" variant - not temporarily - does the trick too...
If the layers are apply a lot of settings - and especially if dealing with a lot of heavy calculation adjustments, like layer adjustments over a lot of Background level spot and dust corrections - the number of individual changes recorded in the changes history could be rather large (at a guess).
Resetting goes back to the base settings and I have to confess I have never really thought that to be particularly useful.
I prefer to create a variant (either a "new" variant that gives the same comparison that a temporary reset offers) or, in the course of editing, a cloned variant that sets a new starting point reference for the next sequence of edits I am about to make. That gives me a ready and easy comparison for all edit stages which I find far more useful than only a reversion to the base reference start point. My guess is that it would also avoid the problem you are experiencing - based on your Edited: comment.
HTH.
Grant0 -
In my tests all involved layers had just few brush strokes with some exposure or contrast compensation, but again toggling them is not a problem until I temporarily reset the variant too many times.
I agree that cloning and switching between primary and cloned version is a perfectly viable alternative.
I'm just wondering whether anybody could try the same as I'm doing and see whether they get the same issue, just for curiosity. As said is a matter of temporarily resetting the variant - ALT + reset button - 10/15 and see whether that gets slower and slower.0 -
have you tried turning HT off? 0 -
[quote="Bobtographer" wrote:
have you tried turning HT off?
Actually I checked and it was off already, I also tried yo enable it but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
At this point it seems that some times dealing with layers may be fine but mostly I feel C1 layers are slow on my PC. With a catalogue of about 800 photos brushing simple adjustments on a layer is quite laggy, meaning I click and move the move around and I see changes being applied about a second later. CPU usage varies quite a lot and it does get to 100% fairly often.
I feel my 8 years old CPU and GPU are not coping too well which is a shame since my Fuji photos look so much better on C1.
Is anybody with similarly old hardware facing the same issues?0 -
8 year old PC, when was the last time you had a fresh install of Windows? (not upgraded, but from scratch)
The i7 should be able to cope fine with the files, are you using the Intel graphics or a 3rd party GPU?0 -
I had a clean install about a week ago to try and see whether that would help, apparently it didn't.
My GPU is Nvidia GTX 580 which is again 8 years old and it wasn't top of the range even then. Judging by the Task Manager is looks like it's being used by C1 but not that much.0 -
[quote="NNN636986154846451130" wrote:
I had a clean install about a week ago to try and see whether that would help, apparently it didn't.
My GPU is Nvidia GTX 580 which is again 8 years old and it wasn't top of the range even then. Judging by the Task Manager is looks like it's being used by C1 but not that much.
Probably only being used for the Screen Windows display, not image processing.
My 7 years old notebook has a Quadra 1000 and that only just meets the criteria for making some use of if for some processes in preference to running everything through the CPU.
As I understand it the GPU, even if powerful, is not necessarily used for all process just because it is there. It's not always the most appropriate tool for a processing task.
I seem to recall that in the early days of Xtrans sensor support, since the requirements are very different to a Bayer based sensor, there were additional limitations for processing Xtrans based files and everything was done through the CPU as a single thread process. Further developments and enhancements over the years will have advanced things from there but the different processing requirements of Xtrans vs Bayer based sensors will still need to be accommodated.
Whether that is having an influence on what you are observing is unknown but there are all kinds of considerations to take into account for older devices especially when working with larger image files.
Grant0 -
For comparison my GPU is 218% more powerful. Before I upgraded to my current system, I used an i5 2500K with an AMD GPU that I upgraded every couple of years, and never had a problem with layers..
Might be worth asking support if your GPU is having an impact on the performance?0
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