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Output ICC profiles

Robert6
Hi
Saving images from C1 you can chose a icc profile from the drop down menue in the output/process recipe toolbar, is that chosen profile just Assinged to the image or is the image converted to the chosen profile when saved
Thanks for looking
Regards
Bob
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  • Jonathan Gilbert
    It is converted, also the preview you are looking at in Capture One 4 uses that output profile as a proof profile.
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  • Robert6
    Many thanks for the info Jon, the lab I use claims the the Fuji Frontera will only work/ recognize there profile if it converted through PS and that the Fuji will not recognize the profile if converted in PhaseOne. I do not see why this is the case as it has been converted not assinged, if it was assinged then a non colour savy program would not reconize the assinged profile but should be OK with a converted profile? Well that is how I see it, what do you think.
    The preview image looks the same colour in Adobe 1998 profile and in the labs profile?
    Many Thanks
    Bob
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  • thowi
    [quote="Bob Fox" wrote:
    the lab I use claims the the Fuji Frontera will only work/ recognize there profile if it converted through PS and that the Fuji will not recognize the profile if converted in PhaseOne.
    🤓 If a file is converted to a certain color space, the file contains this color space. Period. The software has nothing to do with it.
    What your lab states sounds very strange to me.

    There are some profiles, especially profiles in ICC spec V4, C1 is not able to read (I think according to a table tag of some profiling software - when I edit/rename the profiles C1 can use them). But in this case C1 could not do any conversion. So this does not seem to be the case.

    I do not see why this is the case as it has been converted not assinged, if it was assinged then a non colour savy program would not reconize the assinged profile but should be OK with a converted profile?
    Actually it's the same whether the profile is assigned or converted - from the technical side. Assigning a (different) profile "just" leads to incorrect colors. But the printer does not judge about the appearance of the image; it just looks for the profile, the color numbers...
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  • christiaan1
    This topic brings to mind something that I'm not quite sure what to make of in Capture One 4.
    When I process an image of the sony A700, (of course camera profile set to "Sony A700 generic"), and specify the output profile as "embed camera profile", and then open the processed image in Photoshop, photoshop "sees" the embedded icc-profile as "sRGB".
    When the working color-space in photoshop is set to anything other then sRGB, photoshop shows the familiar pop-up dialogue and asks what to do with the profile mismatch.
    When I then choose to keep the embedded profile, work on the image and want to convert it to AdobeRgb, it specifies the "source space" as "sRGB" in the conversion dialogue.
    Does this mean that the embedded generic Sony A700 profile is sRGB ?! (Camera set to RAW, standard mode)
    I've never understood this, since native camera colour spaces are supposed to be much larger colour spaces then sRGB.

    In short: does embedding the camera profile in Capture One, in images of the sony A700, automatically reduce the colourspace to sRGB, or does photoshop fail to recognize the profile correctly, and misinterprets it as sRGB?
    To avoid this issue, I now always convert to AdobeRGB in Capture One, but still some outputprofiles from Capture One seem to be misread, or not recognized by other software
    What's the answer to this?

    Chris M.
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  • thowi
    [quote="Christiaan Mak" wrote:
    photoshop "sees" the embedded icc-profile as "sRGB"
    this is a bug of the previous version. You should install the latest update.
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  • christiaan1

    this is a bug of the previous version. You should install the latest update.


    Thanks for that.
    I've already the last update installed, but never bothered to try embedding the camera profile again since updating. Perhaps I overlooked this issue in the release notes. It does work now as expected, and I don't need a conversion to Adobe RGB anymore, but can print the sony A700 generic icc file directly to a HP B9180 printer from photoshop,

    However, perhaps you can enlighten me on one last issue: When trying to set the photoshop cs3 workingspace to Sony A700 generic, the icc profile does not appear in the colour settings-dialogue list of available profiles. All the Hp-profiles dó appear and it seems the workingspace can be set to almost all icc-profiles, but not the capture one 4 sony A700 generic profile.
    When I try to use the "load RGB..." option, (which opens the windows system 32 colour profiles folder) the sony A700 profile dóes appear, but trying to select it pops up a message: "could not load the RGB working space, because the profile is not a valid RGB working space profile."
    The profile seems to be characterized (by a little windows colour-program) as a class="scanner" profile.
    Furthermore, the same colour program indicates that there is "no gamut plot available" for this capture one 4 sony A700 profile.

    Any ideas why photoshop does not accept this profile as a working space profile? Or why this profile seems to lack a gamut plot?

    Chris M.
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  • thowi
    [quote="Christiaan Mak" wrote:
    When trying to set the photoshop cs3 workingspace to Sony A700 generic, the icc profile does not appear in the colour settings-dialogue list of available profiles.
    It will appear when you open the dialogue "assign profile". But you can not set it as preferred working space.
    But...
    The camera profile is an input profile that contains just a single table. It's impossible to convert images in that color space. It's the same to all other input devices as e.g. scanners.
    In C1 the profile is assigned to the image from the very beginng (this is why you set the camera profile in the quick tab). So the image is transformed to that color space. If you set "embed camera profile" for output no further color conversion is done. The image remains in that camera profile. But certainly you can convert from the camera profile in any other color space.
    To preserve the color space in photoshop your color setting should be switched to "preserve embeded profiles. See this topic:

    I think I didn't really get your note about the gamut plot. The camera profile certainly has a defined gamut:
    http://home.arcor.de/thowidaten/fc/cth_a700.jpg
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  • Robert6
    One more question about profiles. The lab I use has an online Fuji kiosk to upload the images, if the images are processed only in PhaseOne C4.1 the kiosk will apply auto adjustments, the only way round this is to open the image in Photoshop and then resave it. The reason for this is the kiosk looks at file format header ie file format adobe, if it finds the file format adobe, it will not apply auto adjust, is there any way round this.
    Thanks
    Bob
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  • thowi
    [quote="Bob Fox" wrote:
    the only way round this is to open the image in Photoshop and then resave it. The reason for this is the kiosk looks at file format header ie file format adobe, if it finds the file format adobe, it will not apply auto adjust, is there any way round this.
    Okay... is it a big deal to re-save again in PS?
    You can try "exifer" or tools like that... but I don't think it will work.
    The best way to avoid things like this is working with a professional lab.
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  • Keith Carpenter
    In general, Fuji photo paper/chemical printers best utilize sRGB color space while Kodak systems recommend Adobe RGB (1998)

    My guess is the Fuji auto-adjust will function on sRGB and not another profile.

    Yes, The camera profile is an INput profile or what the camera can 'see' and C1 uses this to provide more color control.
    Then there are Display/Monitor and Output/Print color profiles.
    You can output with camera profile (or 3.7.8 PRO NO Color Correction camera Profile) and then final color adjustments are made in another program.

    From RAW, the color space is set upon output/processing and is embedded in the file.
    *some have confused a files Meta Data displayed for Color Space, i.e. sRGB
    which is the color space set in-camera for in-camera processed files (JPEG)

    Keith Carpenter
    Education Manager
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  • christiaan1
    I think I didn't really get your note about the gamut plot. The camera profile certainly has a defined gamut:


    So it does.
    Then microsofts "Color Control Applet" must be unable to read it, where it cán read the gamut of e.g. Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.
    No shame though for a free piece of software. The remark "No Gamut Plot Available" by the way, is made by the software itself.

    Chris
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  • thowi
    [quote="Keith Carpenter" wrote:
    In general, Fuji photo paper/chemical printers best utilize sRGB color space while Kodak systems recommend Adobe RGB (1998
    Depends on the lab. My lab has a Chromira LED/RGB Printer (Fuji) and different professional papers (Fuji and Kodak, too) but they measure all the profiles by themselves. So there is no automation at all. The contrary. Me I like to convert to the paper profile on my computer by myself. The lab then prints without colormanagement. This workflow offers highest flexibility. But it depends on the lab...
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