Stupid VAT
Why do we, europeans have to pay 25% VAT?
Wanted to buy the software but because of the stupid VAT system im not gonna buy it....
Wanted to buy the software but because of the stupid VAT system im not gonna buy it....
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You don't have to pay VAT if you have a VAT number for your EU country.
If not (i.e. no VAT number) you would have paid VAT in your country anyway (I assume in EU there are no countries without VAT).0 -
[quote="Mr12" wrote:
Why do we, europeans have to pay 25% VAT?
Why ask Phase One (or more accurately, users of Phase One products)? Take it up with your government.
Besides, regardless of the software you buy, you're still going to pay VAT on it if you're not exempt - this isn't a "problem" unique to the purchase of Capture One...0 -
In all purchases, VAT is already included, here, you have to pay the price and then you must pay VAT.
It gives a wrong "sense" of pricing on the site.0 -
[quote="Mr12" wrote:
In all purchases, VAT is already included, here, you have to pay the price and then you must pay VAT.
It gives a wrong "sense" of pricing on the site.
Because of VAT regulation and differences per country, an excluding VAT base pricing seems more accurate to me.
YMMV.0 -
VAT-exclusive pricing is a common enough thing to see when a website is selling (primarily) to professionals who can claim the VAT back, and/or when the target market includes customers who won't need to pay VAT because of their location. 0 -
The main issue the OP is refering to (I believe) is the fact that VAT of 25% is being added, even though the VAT rate in the UK is 'only' 20%.
It is not just P1 that do this though (it's probably out of their hands), it seems to be an EU rip-off . . .
I'm not sure how legit this site is, but they claim to only charge 20% VAT:
http://www.captureonecomplete.com/uk/in ... &Itemid=750 -
Well possibly, Kevin - but the OP distinctly refers to Europe rather than the UK.
Phase One is completely clear about its VAT practices, saying on its site Store pages (with my emphasis) that:EU based companies are assigned to charge value-added tax (VAT) according to the country where they are registered.
Phase One is based in a country (Denmark) with a 25% VAT rate, so if we choose to buy via Phase One we pay 25% VAT.
Capture One Complete is a legit UK company, and it properly charges the UK rate of 20%, which - for a bit of perspective - will save a customer a whopping £2 on the price of Capture One Express, and just over £6 on Pro.
(This is all pretty much the same point Paul made, I know).
I think the OP is actually of the impression that the Phase One website is misleading by quoting an ex-VAT price in order to sucker potential customers into the order process, and only then telling them the VAT-inclusive price.
That's the only sense I can make of:In all purchases, VAT is already included, here, you have to pay the price and then you must pay VAT.
It gives a wrong "sense" of pricing on the site.0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
I think the OP is actually of the impression that the Phase One website is misleading by quoting an ex-VAT price in order to sucker potential customers into the order process, and only then telling them the VAT-inclusive price.
This is exactly what i ment.
With that VAT, (even without) its the most expensive raw converter on the market.0 -
I'm no fan of the Phase One site (far too much eye-candy gimmickry, not nearly enough basic intuitive navigability), and you're right, it could easily be made obvious that what you see isn't what you'll end up paying if you're not VAT exempt - it wouldn't be hard to display in black and white that the prices are ex-VAT.
But if your beef is really with the price of the software, then it hardly matters - I'd say - whether it's obvious up front that the quoted price doesn't include VAT: you're still going to pay the same price either way.
Maybe it's a cultural thing? Maybe the Phase One site is typical of how prices are presented in Denmark.
As to the value-for-money question: yes and no.
Pro is expensive, to be sure, and I struggle to see why - it has a good bit less in the way of useful functionality than Lightroom or even AfterShot Pro (which is seriously crap in many important ways, but at least it's cheap for the amount of functionality it provides. When it works properly).
Express is excellent value for money though, and all it really lacks in terms of functionality as far as I'm concerned is local adjustment - I have zero interest in tethering, keystone correction, Capture Pilot and the like - and I can apply local adjustments until I'm blue in the face in Photoshop anyway.
So unless you need the stuff in Pro, buy Express: you get all the IQ/colour rendition benefits of Cap One, at the (possible) expense of a few bells and whistles you might not need anyway.
And it'll cost less than £50 all in here.
Nobody's forced to buy Pro...0 -
I see there is now a panel to the left, on the prices page, indicating the VAT situation - Not sure how long that's been there though. 0 -
At least since the new site opened for business, Kevin.
This is a Jan 2011 snapshot of the old Phase One site courtesy of the Wayback Machine and it says, at the top of the page:Please note that EU citizens are charged an additional 25% VAT
No ambiguity there, then.
Come on Phase One - a similarly clear statement on the new site would really help avoid this confusion...0 -
Whilst I would much rather see a clear statement of VAT (or whatever taxes apply locally around the world) the issues about whether a tax is or is not included in the price displayed seems to be a broad problem in the Web.
Where things are relatively simple, in the UK for example, retailers expecting to market to VAT registered clients as well as the general public often have either clearly marked prices or the option to display with or without the VAT added.
However as far as I can see the norm in, say, the USA is not to include any taxes because the tax regime is so complex that to try to calculate the tax on line is not very practical until you get a confirmation of invoice and delivery details. So buyers are likely to be aware of their local situation in terms of tax to be paid and shop accordingly.
As for the value of the product, Keith makes an interesting point about using Express rather than Pro. My feeling though is that I can do nearly everything I would wish to do in C1 Pro and rarely need anything like Photoshop. The downside of that is that when I do need to do something a little different it may take me a while to work out how to do it being less practiced with the tools required!
I don't ever anticipate finding a 'one product always suits all' solution at a price that would seem to be very reasonable and, preferably, tax free. 😊
Grant Perkins0 -
Hi Grant,
the reason that Express does the job for me is that everything I do ends up in Photoshop anyway (or PaintShop Pro, if I'm giving it another chance!), simply because of a couple of Photoshop-compatible plugins that play a key role in my workflow.
If I didn't rely so much on them, I'm sure I'd be more inclined towards Pro than I currently am - and I'm also sure I'd spend more time wondering about the price than I currently do!
😉0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
Hi Grant,
the reason that Express does the job for me is that everything I do ends up in Photoshop anyway (or PaintShop Pro, if I'm giving it another chance!), simply because of a couple of Photoshop-compatible plugins that play a key role in my workflow.
If I didn't rely so much on them, I'm sure I'd be more inclined towards Pro than I currently am - and I'm also sure I'd spend more time wondering about the price than I currently do!
😉
Well that's a fair point Keith.
I've been playing with a few things related to plugins recently for a couple of projects that I know are not part of what C1 sets out to offer. But as a result of those excursions I keep finding new bits of C1 that I suspect may suffice for many things that PS related Plugins, other than extreme HDR, distortion and the like, set out to offer. Major cloning, changing skies, compilations and so on - yep, you have to use a graphics package of some sort. But going that route seems less obviously necessary if just tweaking a 'look' - which is what I tend to do I suppose.
I also use a slightly obsolete package, no linger available, that is conceptually very similar to C1 (or maybe the other way around? 😉 ). C1 offers less fuctionality but is less effort to use and somehow just produces good to great results across a range of similar frames that would have me doing individual changes using the other package. Unless an image is a particular challenge I don't miss the extra settings of the older package at all. It's a bit unnerving and I wish I understood why things work as they do - but absent that I'll just take what C1 gives since most of the time it suits me fine and I've never found layers, as per PS and other applications, intuitive in any way. I'm fairly sure I'm in a minority there, though a large minority from what I can tell. 😊
Grant Perkins0 -
Yes i can have the express version, but it is missing something important for me:
Chromatic abberation fix....0 -
[quote="Mr12" wrote:
Yes i can have the express version, but it is missing something important for me:
Chromatic abberation fix....
Look into PTLens. Does CA, but more importantly lens correction.0 -
Seems this thread has gone of track.
I will summarize:
If you live in the E.U you must pay VAT and the VAT rate will be the Danish VAT as Phase One is a Danish company. If you buy it somewhere else in Europe you will pay the VAT of the specific country.
This is simply the law within European Union.
If you do not live in the E.U you do not have to pay VAT.
For other discussions, please create a new thread.0
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