Can I create Collections that span multiple Sessions?
This would be extremely useful for projects that involve images from different Sessions, but I don't see how it can be done. I previously found this to be one of the most useful features in ON1 RAW, but I have graduated from that program to C1 and don't want to go back.
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One way would be: Create a catalog and the various projects in it. Import the sessions into the projects. Unfortunately, the guys of C1 still don't appear to have a clue how a DAM should be working, therefore you'd need to create also at least one collection.
Collections are the units in which you can collect links to pictures on your harddrive. The collections can be organized in projects or groups. You see all pictures in your project, if you click on the project, but you can't see any pictures if you click on a group. Only the dev-boys of C1 know why this needs to be that way. And only the dev-boys know why you can't find albums with a full text search. If you have any expectations towards C1 to act as a decent DAM - just forget it or lower them very close to the ground.
I'd recommend one of the "Workflow in Capture One" webinars. You'd find no reasons for why, but a couple of ideas to how it needs to be done.
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The answer may depend on whether you want your collection to be original (RAW?) editable files or the results of editing as made available in output files.
One possibility would be to make a "Collection" session that simply links to all the images from other sessions that you wish to group together. How specific or generic that approach might be depends on the way you wish to structure your original files within their original sessions.
Alternatively create a catalogue to represent the "collection" and add the Session files to the catalogue.
Note that using that approach can utilise the same "source" file but will potentially result in that image having different adjustments in the Catalogue compared to the Session.
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Robert, yes this would be great, if properly supported by C1
One possibility would be to make a "Collection" session ...
I would call this a Master Session which doesn't have own Captures.
You need to add the desired folders of the other sessions into the Master Session's Favorites. Then the filters and smart albums should work across images from the underlying sessions. (In order to differentiate them you might want to rename each Capture, Selects folders and their and Favorites beforehand?)
That and the maintenance going forward is a big nuisance to me, especially if sub folders are involved in my sessions.Alternatively create a catalogue to represent the "collection" and add the Session files to the catalogue.
...will potentially result in that image having different adjustments in the Catalogue compared to the Session
That's a big nuisance to me too.
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"That's a big nuisance to me too."
Possibly.
But in some situations for some people it might be just what they want.
The solution, depending on how one puts things into production, would be to use the Collection session.
I take the point about the "Master" session But it has a slightly different angle to its purpose if we call it a "Collection"
Sometimes terminology - or, more simply, name tags - can associate with a particular way of doing something that can obscure the possibility of using the same ideas in a different way and using a different name tag convention. The underlying functionality required may be no different in the final analysis.
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How disappointing that C1 does not have this functionality, while some “lower end” programs do. When I used C1 9 or 10 years ago, I gave up precisely because the DAM features were weak, confusing and unreliable. Version 21 is a whole lot better but still has a way to go. Might improvements come in v22? Nah, it’s probably not a priority, but we will get panorama stitching, which is of little interest to me.
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Thinking more about this, if you can have Collections within a given Session, why should it be so hard to have Collections across more than one Session? In either case, your just linking to files stored somewhere on the hard drive. Or is there something funky about the Session structure that makes a seemingly simple task difficult, if not impossible?
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Robert,
It depends on what you are referring to as a "Collection".
If you think of a session as being a small (maybe?) Catalogue would you also expect to have the ability to define a Collection that works across several Catologues?
If not, what do you see as the reason why that should not be a requirement?
In effect a Session Folders group is a form of "Collection" working at the folder level. Using filters one can select specific images from the collection.
A folder (and therefore the images within the folder) can be associated with as many Sessions as may be required.
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Robert:
...if you can have Collections within a given Session, why should it be so hard to have Collections across more than one Session? In either case, your just linking to files stored somewhere on the hard drive.
Step by step:
- Create a new session, call it e.g. Master Session (like me), Utility Session (David Groover, C1) or Collection Session (SFA)
- Create a regular album in the Master Session
Using the library tool, locate and click the folder of the images from other sessions which you want to assign to the album in your Master session. From the browser tool, drag&drop them to the album.
Repeat this for all images of all sessions you want to use in the Master Session.
- Create a smart album in the Master Session
Go to the Master Session Favorites, click + and locate the folder of the other sessions Capture and Selects folders .
Repeat this for all desired folders of all sessions you want to use in the Master Session.
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Thanks, SFA and BeO. I think that I am beginning to see a path through the forest. I expect that there will be some stumbles along the way, but I'm a pretty patient guy, and I know that I can return here to ask questions as they arise.
Still, to my mind, this seems more complex than it should be. It would be really nice for C1's developers to design a straightforward method for creating Collections/Albums that include files from multiple Sessions.
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Robert,
In effect one could take the steps and wrap them up in another step to make them look nice - but the steps would still be the same.
As you work through this and make sense of it from your perspective just be aware that some terminology in C1 is not always entirely uniquely applied. Or, rather, can be used in logical but seemingly slightly ambiguous ways.
The term "Variant" comes to mind.
Once one has grasped how and where it is used in C1 and what it is used for, things start to become a little clearer.
I suspect "Collections" is a word that has similar potential for suggesting common usage when in fact it is a concept word that can cover some notably different approaches to a generic type of user requirement. More especially because it is a "virtual" grouping facility that really only points to other grouping facilities some of which may also be "virtual". Smart Albums for example.
I think the developers would be expecting people to create Catalogs from their sessions if they wished to work with images from more than one session. The facility to do that exists should you wish to investigate it. That would be fairly close to having a "Collection" of Sessions, albeit with limited options for preselection of images but that may not matter when we really should be expecting our computers to do the heavy work for us.
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“In effect one could take the steps and wrap them up in another step to make them look nice - but the steps would still be the same.”
Yep, that is exactly what I would like to see, as it would make the process much easier for many users. As I see it, most, if not all, image editors constantly strive for simplification.
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I can't be sure about how developers might approach the requirement but I rather suspect that the needs for user interaction would be the same either way. The users would still have to set up the parameters for what they were trying to do. I don't think one would get much simplification. One might see some window dressing and the marketing of a "new feature". This is a common software industry trend.
Unless one has a regular repeated need or needs that could be set up as adjustment processing templates, in which case there might be a case for such a development that would have real meaning in some way.
My guess is that the Applescript users that visit here might be able to suggest the same sort of automation.
Windows users would be left to their own devices. No great loss since the steps would be pretty much the same unless repeated identical automation was required. That, to me, seems unlikely.
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Performance test:
My Master Session with many Folders included from other sessions as Favorites (35 Favorites, 2300 images) is very very slow when it comes to on-demand filtering or using the Filter tool.
It looks like the filtering does not even work (though at least C1 is responsive and you can switch to another favorite or change the filter). 30+sec I get the filtered images. From there on there is some caching involved for the filter set, but changes to another smart album (which is relatively fast) and do the same filter again (e.g. color), it starts all over.
It is a liable workaround for occasionally usage, but would not replace a catalog in terms of performance if you have many more images.
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