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It feels like a Beta test that I pay for.

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26 comments

  • Jack W
    Admin

    Ira Potter I've moved this from the feature request section of the forum to the more general discussion topic.

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  • Evi K
    Product Manager

    Hello Ira Potter, thanks for the feedback. We understand that there are many improvements that we could bring into the app. Can you elaborate and share with us what is it that you need to do but you cannot achieve with the current version? Why is this important for you?

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  • Ira Potter

    Jack, I put this in the section that was titled Improve Capture One for mobile, ... by sending us a feature request or providing feedback about Capture One mobile, to have you move it from there is disrespectful, this is feedback, honest feedback from a customer of yours who has used and paid for your products for many years, to have my feedback electronically swept under the carpet actually offends me.

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    Ira Potter There's no feature request in your post, hence why it was moved to a different topic. By moving it to the correct topic, I've kept your feedback firmly above the carpet. I'm sorry that this offended you, as it certainly wasn't my intention – hopefully the dialog started with Evi can solidify this.

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  • OddS.

    > Jack Williams: There's no feature request in your post...

    Even so, I think Ira Potter has a valid point. The "Improve xyz..." topics have a sub-title ... ...by sending us a feature request or providing feedback about xyz

    Why do you need "or" anything if you only want feature requests?

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  • Evi K
    Product Manager

    Hello Ira Potter and OddS., thanks again for reaching out. We are trying to get some learnings from your comments and in order to do that we would like to ask you to be more specific: what is it that you are missing and why is it important for you? What type of photography are you into and how would you use the app if it met your expectations?

    We are using this channel to have a dialogue with our users: this dialogue will help us understand your problems better and that could give you a chance to help us shape the app in a way that is more relevant to you. So it's win-win as long as you are as specific as possible :) 

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  • OddS.

    > Evi K:  ...what is it that you are missing

    I did not say I am missing anything. But I did ask a question.

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  • Evi K
    Product Manager

    Hey OddS. I believe that the issue here is that feedback in this section should be actionable. So this is what I am trying to understand with my questions: is it a matter of subscription price? lack of editing tools ? and if so what are they etc.? 

    Jack-W might be better to answer your question but as I understand it, 

    " or providing feedback about xyz" means that apart from asking for new features you can also say what you like or don't like about an existing feature or functionality. In this case, we can take your feedback into account for improving something that already exists. Hope it helps.

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  • OddS.

    > Evi K: ...apart from asking for new features you can also...

    To me, that implies you agree with Ira Potter. A "feature request" is indeed not required. Ira Potter had a post taken out of "Improve Capture One for mobile" because it did not contain a feature request. It did though, contain feedback.

    It may well be that Ira Potter's feedback did not fit the moderator's sense of feedback mentioned in feature request or feedback. If so, I think the company needs to clarify the sub-title used for those "Improve xyz" topics.

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Isn't this a meta discussion right now?

    It was a general complaint (yes a feedback) but the product management has reached out to Ira and asked to provide concrete requirements. Hey, they are listen to a client! You should take the chance, imo.

    Jack has clarified he did not want to offend Ira, if that is off the table it is time to put some flesh to the bones and create specific feature requests. Imo.

    Don't be offended, anybody, this is to help you (not me, because if you ask me, they should abandon the mobile app and focus on enhancing and bug fixing the core product).

    Cheers,
    BeO

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  • OddS.

    BeO: ...meta discussion

    Yes and no. The point is that some topic sub-titles are most likely misleading. This was not the first posting moved from an "Improve xyz" topic because it was not worded as a feature request.

    If they only want feature requests, I think they should say so without the "or feedback". If they only want feature requests or feedback/discussion on existing requests, then I think they should rephrase the "or feedback" part. If they really want to enforce the feature request template, they may have to abandon the forum software.

    I have no opinion on the mobile app, not even on the Capture One Pro :-)

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi OddS, no opinion on Capture One Pro? Hard to believe .. :-)

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    OddS. Thanks for the feedback on the wording with regards to asking for feature requests and feedback. I can see where you're coming from and will consider rewording.

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  • OddS.

    > BeO: ...no opinion on Capture One Pro?

    This is out of topic, but since you ask:

    I have always filled gaps in the application using additional applications. That strategy works for me and it is liberating when I decide to change parts of my workflow. You know I took Capture One Pro out of my workflow quite some time ago, and that I never upgraded to v21, v22 nor v23. I have not closed the door completely so i keep an eye on it, and I occasionally launch my v20 just to let it call home.

    My opinions point to the company Capture One. There are likely better words, but the company's attitude should be close enough. If you re-read your own posting, you voice a couple of opinions on the company, "they", yourself. There need to be some changes made for me to consider a new purchase from Capture One.

     

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    What are the changes you'd like to see OddS.?

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  • OddS.

    > Jack Williams: What are the changes you'd like to see

    I'll start simple: Make the forum a real support forum.  In short: be first responders and provide authoritative answers to problems.

    If that is too abstract, you could start right now with this 2 months old posting refreshed short time ago: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/10936048578461 

    Blunt, I know, but the reported problem does not worry me at all, your passivity does. That is a company issue (top management), not an application issue.

    Edited to add yet another example, this one 5 months old and commented several times: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/9235586498845 . Again, the reported problem does not worry me, your passivity does.

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    OddS. Thanks a lot for getting back to me . In instances like this, it often requires troubleshooting and looking at things from the user's perspective, which is why we'd prefer to handle these requests in a support ticket where RAW files can be exchanged, zoom calls arranged etc.

    We're certainly going more towards that direction (support forum) with public feature requests, camera support requests, known bugs (with progress on how they're moving along towards getting a fix) – for me it's about striking a balance between a support forum and a user-to-user forum, with the tricky stuff that requires troubleshooting being handled privately by our support agents but also fostering a sense of community and users helping each other.

    I have faith that we're going to get consistently better at the latter, but also in being more definitive and providing clear answers in the community, so that questions are not repeated and information is easier to find.

    I'd love to hear more from you and others about how we can do better. Feel free to tag me any time or make a post with even further feedback or findings.

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  • OddS.

    > Jack Williams: ...we'd prefer to handle these requests in a support ticket

    I fully understand that, but it does not explain total silence from your end. There is a long(!)  history of users mistaking the forum for a support forum. I have explained the sad facts to many users over the years: Capture One does not have a support forum, you need to file a request.

    There is no real conflict with you being first responders and users joining in if they know a solution or a workaround.

    And, do you really, I mean really,  want to wake up the crowd that over the years has had a filed request killed off by silence or a boilerplate answer that demonstrates that you (meaning the company) did not read the request and the explanation?

    > Jack Williams: I'd love to hear more from you and others about how we can do better

    You may be in for a lot of work. Quality Assurance would likely be next suggestion, so be warned :-)

     

     

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    OddS. I don't see them (support and user to user forum) as mutually exclusive. I think users can help each other (providing support) whilst also having the option to create a support ticket to dive deeper or report a bug.

    I know what you mean by requests getting killed off, template answers etc. But I can assure you we're in a much better place to where we were a few years ago – not yet where we want to be, but certainly making progress. 

    I'm up for a lot of work, and for making Capture One and its community a better resource for those who rely on it. Photography itself is a vast community, and I hope to bring more of that into the CO community itself.

    Hopefully see you over at Community feedback soon :) 

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  • OddS.

    > Jack Williams: ...not yet where we want to be, but certainly making progress

    The proof is in the pudding, not in stated intentions. As I said before, I plan to keep an eye on Capture One, but "there need to be some changes made for me to consider a new purchase from Capture One". I have indicated two areas: support forum as I already described it, and effective quality assurance and quality control.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    and effective quality assurance and quality control.

    And for me, in addition, the will and final achievement of a better quality and less bugs. If bugs are only found by QA but not solved this helps nobody. I still have two bug reports outstanding since 6 months, one of them a major issue for my workflow without a workaround.

    And: Interesting features (in the core product, not mobile stuff)

     

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  • Jack W
    Admin

    In order to fix bugs quicker, we need to get them identified, reproduced, and start working on them sooner. I hope we can achieve at least part of that through the community.

    We have a specific bug request form these days with a team dedicated to looking at the reports and working closely with R&D. We're of course not in charge of prioritizing fixes, but what would you like to see improved with regards to the bug reporting process BeO? Or more specifically, is there anything in the last 6 months that would have made you feel a bit more informed or at ease, knowing that we're working on a fix?

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Jack-W

    what would you like to see improved with regards to the bug reporting process

    I don't have any suggestion here, I think the submit a request form is good, and I got feedback from the team after having it reported. That sometimes a recording is needed in case (!) the team does not understand the bug description is also ok.

    is there anything in the last 6 months that would have made you feel a bit more informed or at ease, knowing that we're working on a fix?

    For one of my bug reports I did not get any new update since 5 months even so I asked once a month or so. This could be improved. For the other bug report I did not ask since the last update of the team 3 months ago, but I doubt this would have been treated differently than the other request.

    But what really is out of order is the speed in which bugs are fixed. This is especially true for regression defects (i.e. defects which have been newly introduced in a software release and did not exist before). Both of my bug reports are such regression defects which is the reason I don't go higher than 15.2.

    Even with the old license policy when perpetual license customers had the right to get minor version updates this slowliness is killing your promise of providing a first class software. But with the new policy this slowliness in fixing bugs is killing the value proposition for your customers.

    But even if I were a subscriber and cannot / don't want to update or upgrade though I paid because of such regression bugs the value of the software would have been radically reduced.

    The company management should invest in R&D to increase the speed and quality of enhancements and bug fixes by all means, if you ask me. Money should not be the problem as the prices have increased in the last years considerably and are not on the cheap side. If you ask me, that is likely the reason many customers feel that it is unbalanced.

    Regards
    BeO

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  • Ira Potter

    The main reason for me wanting to use Capture One mobile is to take a lighter more compact device away with me for short trips or location work, I would like to be able to check the image quality in more detail than is available on the camera back, make quick edits on location and publish images on line and in social media.
    Having now spent a little more time with the software I would really like to see the following features added.
    Live view, I sometimes find myself in situations on location where the cameras rear screen is no longer visible and live view via tethering would be a great help, I understand that this is coming soon.

    Lens corrections, I often shoot with a tilt shift lens and while specific lens corrections don’t count it would be great to have chromatic abberation correction.

    Masking, not being able to use linear masks or brushes to alter skies etc is very frustrating.

    Layers with opacity control, I don’t expect the mobile version to be as fully featured as the desktop package but this is the way I always use Capture One these days so to include it would make the experience more intuitive and pleasurable.

    Spot retouching, where is it, an essential part of any package but it isn’t here.

    Variants and the ability to compare two images on screen.

    I may come up with more features I would like to see implemented in the future but these are the ones that I would have thought would be essential before you release the software for subscription, as it stands Capture One for mobile is not worth the monthly fee, and as a workaround I could easily use Adobe Lightroom for my mobile photography as it is free with my Adobe subscription anyway.

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  • Ira Potter

    I forgot to add Curves, that really is an essential tool.

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  • Ira Potter

    After 3 months of using the app my subscription runs out in a few days, I am glad I tried the app as it was something I had planned on using extensively in the future but now see that that will not be possible any time soon, I had really high hopes for this product but it is actually worse now due to what appear to be untested updates which make the app freeze continuously, I hope you get the app sorted and it becomes a viable product sometime as it really has potential, but in its current state it is a turkey.

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