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Remove Variants

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13 comments

  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    • If you have just one version of an image, Capture One still calls it a variant. So for most of your images you probably only have one variant. 
    • If you create a second variant, perhaps to try a different look on an image, Capture One labels them with a number like this. (This is looking at the Browser, in grid view. Variant 2 has a different white balance and more contrast in the sky.)

    • Capture One has NOT created a second copy of the image file on disk - it has just recorded two sets of adjustments in the settings file for that image. If I delete the number 2 variant, nothing is deleted from the disk, but the settings for it are edited to remove the information for the second version. 
    • If you want to, you can select all the number 2 variants in a folder or a collection. Go to any one number 2 variant, right click it and choose Select By Same... Variant position. That will select all the number 2 variants in the folder, so you could perhaps delete them, or add them to an album. (Maybe your number 2 variants are all converted to black and white - you could put all the black and white versions in an album of their own.)

    EDITED to add another thought. I think I prefer version 2 of the image I shared above. I might delete variant (1) - that will then leave what is currently variant 2 as the only version. Again, nothing is changed on disk except that behind the scenes, Capture One removes from its settings file the settings for the variant I have chosen to remove.

    Does that help?

    Ian

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    To add to Ian's comprehensive reply, if you only have one variant left, C1 usually renames the menu entry e.g. to Remove from catalog or Delete from disk (don't remember the exact action). I never use the delete key /keyboard but always the menu items because that gives me the extra safety I need for sleeping well... :-)

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  • Nick Prince

    Ian, Thank you for the quick and complete response.  Yes it was very helpful.  It seems, unfortunately, I have to keep all variants as part of the work flow since I can't collapse selected variants into the variant stack.  

    Also, I performed an experiment on variants that were created as part of an external edit.  In case you are not familiar with the process, you can choose to edit a variant in another editor.  When you do this using Image>>>"Edit With",

    a variant is created,

    your chosen editor is opened,

    and the new variant information is transferred to the external editor. 

    If you decide to save your changes in the external editor:

    a file is created on disk

    and the attributes of the edited file are transferred to the variant created prior to the transfer from C1. 

    I then removed the variant from C1 by right clicking on the variant selecting "Remove Variant".  The variant was removed, however, the file was still available on the disk and could be imported to C1 if I choose.  Of course, at that point, the imported file was not linked to the original or its variants . 

    If Lilly or anyone from C1 is reading this, beginners would benefit greatly from a detailed explanation with examples and pictures.  

    Ian,  Thank you again for your help.

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    I think you are confused about what happens if you use Edit with. As an example, you might "Edit With" Photoshop or Affinity Photo - perhaps to do some retouching that Capture One's tools are not suited for. What happens is NOT that a "variant" is created. Photoshop or Affinity can't take a raw file from Capture One with its edits. They need a file they can use that has the edits baked into it, typically a TIFF or a JPG (your choice when you choose Edit With). So Capture One will create a TIFF that reflects the editing work you have done - perhaps changing white balance, reducing exposure, adding contrast, and so on. It shows the TIFF alongside the raw file in Capture One, but that is not what Capture One calls a variant.

    That TIFF is then opened in Photoshop (or whatever) where you can do your retouching etc. When it is saved you should see the updated version of the TIFF in Capture One, where you can do more work on it, export to JPG, or whatever you choose.

    Personally, I would NOT delete the original raw file. You lose the opportunity to deal with it differently on another occasion, and you can't edit the TIFF to undo or redo the edits you originally did to the raw.

    You should be able to collapse variants - so I could collapse the two variants in the example I showed. But you can't collapse the original raw and the TIFF that was sent to Photoshop into one stack.

    Ian

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  • Nick Prince

    Thank you for the clarification,  However, when I use "edit with" in C23 (and versions before) C23 creates a variant in the browser window before it goes to Affinity. 

    For instance

    I highlight 2023-07-23-22.12.12 a_1_1_1.tif in the browser

    C23 copies(?) 2023-07-23-22.12.12 a_1_1_1 to a newly created variant 2023-07-23-22.12.12  a_1_1_1_2

    A tif file (2023-07-23-22.12.12  a_1_1_1_2.tif) is created on the disk. 

    I am then switched over to Affinity. 

    I perform my edits and exit the program. 

    Affinity asks if I want to save my changes then asks if I want to save layers ( I say yes to both). 

    Affinity updates the 2023-07-23-22.12.12  a_1_1_1_2.tif on the disk and closes 

    I am then transferred back to C23. 

    When I check 2023-07-23-22.12.12  a_1_1_1_2.tif on the disk it has been updated with the Affinity edits. 

    I go back to C23 and the new variant is updated although sometimes I have to regenerate previews a couple of times for the updates to appear in the browser and viewer. 

    If I remove the variant 2023-07-23-22.12.12  a_1_1_1_2.tif remains on the disk.  

    At no time was a tiff file generated during my process

    I'm not sure why my experience is different than yours but it seems to work for both of us.

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    You say that at no time was a TIFF generated, but earlier you said it was.

    A tif file (2023-07-23-22.12.12  a_1_1_1_2.tif) is created on the disk. 

    You seem to be working on a TIFF file at the start of this process (rather than a raw file). Nevertheless, when you use Edit With (as opposed to Open With) Capture One will always generate a new file to send to the external editor (Affinity in this case). 

    Ian

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    If you highlight a tif file in the browser, regardless which variant in the stack of tif files (variant, variant2 etc), and then select "Edit with", it will create a new tif file, but this is a new file and no variant (more precise: a new file with only one variant).

    Ian is totally correct, a variant is only a version of edit settings of the same underlying file. One file can have 1 or many variant settings, but separate files are, well, separate files/images.

    This newly created file is not in the stack, it cannot be collapsed, it is a copy of your file which you highlighted in the first place, "developed" with its settings and exported to disk, then opened in PS and saved with PS changes made.

    Your experience is the same as Ian's with the difference that you are not using the naming convention of C1 (and maybe not yet fully grasp what C1 is doing when). And, Ian uses real camera raw files instead of tifs to begin with (you might do as well, I don't know).

    When I use "Remove Variant", am I deleting that variant(s)?

    Can you paste a screenshot with that menu item? In the Windows C1 version 22 this does not exist, only "Delete variant". My previous advise not bad, if C1 caption is "xxx from disk" then it will just do that xxx it from disk. It makes sense to understand C1 naming convention as most of time it is consistent in the app, which is not the case in the dialog of "Edit with" (because you don't actually create a new variant of the highlighted image file, as the button suggests, but a new file based on the highlighted variant):

    I should be named "Create and Edit Derivative", imho.

    However, when I use "edit with" in C23 (and versions before) C23 creates a variant in the browser window before it goes to Affinity. 

    Actually, it creates a derivative (though this term never appears in C1) and imports it into the catalog hence creating a variant (of this new exported derivate file, not of the original tif file).

    Regards,
    BeO

    P.S. Ian, you've been much faster than me...:-)

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Maybe easy to remember:

    In the beginning, each file has exactly one variant in C1. You can only create new variants via menu>Image>New variant or Clone variant (or its keyboard shortcuts).

    Another way: If it is not stacked, then it is not a variant of the others.

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  • Nick Prince

    Got it.  thank you for your patience and sticking with me on this.  

    Ian, You were correct (of course).On the tif files. I realize there is no technical difference between tif and tiff.  The reason I focused on that in my post is C23 outputs tif and Affinity tiff.  In the interest of precision I brought that up in case it made a difference.  I use tif as a base because focus stacking is part of my workflow and my programs output tif. For single shots I use raw.

    Ian/BeO,

    Essentially the only difference is I don't have a stack.  For me, it is a it is a distinction without a difference since every iteration of my work ends up in Affinity at some point.  Inadvertently I create a nondestructive, iterative "stack" of files on the disk for my image history.  That is good news and now that I have a more detailed idea of how things work I can add this in as a deliberate step in my workflow.  In fact I can do what I wanted in the beginning which is reduce the number of edited images while keeping the history on my drive since there the stack does not exist in any meaningful way for me.   If needed, I can always bring them back from the disk.

    Remove Variant

    What started all of this is the Remove Variant command in the Image drop down in C23 (see below).  It led me to believe I could selectively delete variants essentially without consequences.  Of course I know that is not the case now but I couldn't find in any of the help posts a definitive definition of the command.  It would be very helpful if the C1 folks made an addition explaining all of this. So I have come full circle with more knowledge and very satisfactory results.  

    Thank both of you again for your knowledge, time and patience.  Let me know if you have any questions on the remove variant command below.

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi Nick,

    You have a Mac, is that right?

    With the Windows version it is called Delete. Please note how the menu entry changes, which can protect you from removing variants from C1 by accident. It must be similar on the Mac.

    If you have more than 1 variant, and "Edit All Selected" disabled:

    btw, the "primary" variant is always the "most selected" one, i.e. the thumbnail with the bigger border.

    If you have more than 1 variant, and "Edit All Selected"  enabled, only the tooltip changes:

    All variants (or the only existing variant) of an image file selected you will have the option to Delete(move to trash) inplace of the former menu item:

    The latter two menu items seem to be identical all the time, so only one item changes its meaning throughout various situations. CTRL+Delete never deletes from disk, but it's easy to press ALT wrongly, therefore I always use the menu instead of a shortcut key. 

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  • Nick Prince

    Thanks BeO, but I have a PC (Win 10) with C23. 

    As you can see from my screen shot the menu has Remove Variant, Move to Catalog Trash, and Delete from Disk. Looking at the short cuts on my screen shot and yours Ctrl+Del = Delete (move to Catalog Trash) = Remove Variant.  Probably the same action, different names.

    Another confusing point that differs from the help posts is my thumbnails do not have borders.  None of them, thick or thin. Now that I know how things work it doesn't matter as much to me and I'm sure there is somewhere in preferences that I accidently checked that deleted/hid borders. 

    Thanks again

     

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    The borders on the thumbnails are controlled by the Selected Variant colour in preferences/settings. There is a button to restore the default appearance.

    Ian

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  • Nick Prince

    Thank you Ian.

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