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30 comments

  • Edward Dumas

    Another C1 scam for your money, I just went with full subscription thru August 2024 under impression I WILL GET ALL UPDATES IN THAT PERIOD. This All in one seems to add more commands?? this is BS and only free for first year. I am done with C1

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    I do understand the need for multiple lisencing models, but they really need to be accurate in their emails...Every time I read a new marketing mail from CaptureOne I'm surprised to find more things that sound like a scam or not accurate information. I thought I was getting app for IOS for no extra cost after reading one of the mails, but that is only for All in one package.... So much for getting all feature access in my subscription..

    There is nothing that sounds more than a scam like you say. We are used to other cr-app-s inaccuracy and trick us in to subscription models where we don't get the full package, but I never thought CaptureOne was going to be like this.

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Edward Dumas - If you're subscribed, you get all updates to the core Capture One that ship while you are subscribed.  What Capture One is trying to sell here is a bundle of more services/apps than the core subscription.  They're trying to sell a bundle of the regular subscription + Capture One Mobile for iphone/ipad + Unlimited Capture One Live usage + Priority Support. 

    The last three items are above and beyond what you get with the regular subscription.  The regular subscription gets you all updates to Capture One itself.  So, they are trying to upsell you here to get you to buy more than just a subscription.  This is similar to what they do when they try to get you buy style packages.  This is just sales and marketing tactics to tempt you to spend more than you currently are. 

    These are just add-ons.  If you need these add-ons, you can buy them separately if you want or you can buy them in a bundle.  If you don't need these add-ons, then just keep going with your regular Capture One subscription and you will still get all upgrades to the core Capture One.

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Aleksander Torset Eriksen - The iphone/ipad version of Capture One has always been an extra from the day it first existed.  It was never part of the base subscription.  Nothing has changed in that regard.  This new advertisement/offer is for a more expensive bundle that includes a couple things beyond the base subscription.  This is just marketing.  They're offering you a more expensive package that includes more things.  If you need/want all these things, you can buy the bundle.  If not, you can stick with your base subscription and/or buy individual add-ons as needed.

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    @John.. It's about the way they do things.. They handle their customers like.. Yeah.

    I went from perpetual license to subscription last year because the promise of having all function at a lower yearly cost. It was their words "get all functions for a lower monthly /yearly cost".

    New function gets added, "hey, let's make a new subscription model only available for those who pay extra".

    Now they send mails that I can "upgrade to All in one subscription for no additional cost", which is also a lie. My current subscription cost me $179 or year flat. This new upgrade cost at least $183 for a year then it increase to way over $200. So not only is it inaccurate to say there are no increase because it actually cost around $5 this first upgrade, but it also cost a lot more next year.

    The moment I signed up for subscription my perpetual license is no longer usable, so I can't go back to whatever I had.

    Needless to say I feel tricked and lured in to subscription thinking my perpetual license was a waste of money. What a fool I was.

    Well, fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Lesson learned.

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Aleksander Torset Eriksen - I would agree that Capture One (the company) does not always communicate clearly.  But, there was NEVER a promise that you would get the iphone/ipad version of the software included with the base subscription.  If you thought that, then you were just confused.  From the very first day I read about the iphone/ipad version, it was always clear to me that it cost extra.

    Let me repeat.  What they are offering here is an EXPANDED subscription package that includes more things and costs more money.  You do NOT have to choose that option.  If you're already a subscriber, just keep with your current subscription and you will get all the upgrades to the core Capture One editor including the new AI masking tools that they've talked about.

    You seem to somehow think that your base subscription entitles you to every single thing that Capture One ever makes.  That's just not how it works.  Capture One has their base editor and then a bunch of add-ons.  If you want the add-ons you pay more.  That's how it works.

    If you follow my posts here, you'll see that I have plenty of things I don't like about how Capture One is running the company and what they are or aren't doing with the products and pricing.  But, I think you're just mistaken here.  It's always been clear that things like Styles and iphone/iPad and unlimited Capture One Live were extra above and beyond that base subscription.  It's not clear to me how you came to think that you would get access to every single product they ever made with your base subscription.  I've never seen anything that even implies that.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi John,

    I don't read Aleksander the same way you do. He is not expecting something extra as you said. Rather the mail is inaccurate and can easily be read that C1 suggests you get something for free (suggesting for ever) whereas it is only almost free (+5$) and after a year it is the regular cost (or maybe at 30% of the regular cost, I did not really grasp their mail either).

    Alexsander,

    The moment I signed up for subscription my perpetual license is no longer usable, so I can't go back to whatever I had.

    Are you still entitled to use your old version perpetual license and it is "only" the technical impossibility to downgrade your catalog?

    When I logon and look up Prices I get this message which tells me I can keep my old perpetual license, it is not invalidated.

     

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    Have a look at this image if it's not clear. I'm not going to sit here and debate that I should have known better when it is clear that Capture One misinformed us customers...! There is nothing about not communicating clearly, it is simply just be accurate and not lying which is the main issue I'm debating in this post.

    This is only a few examples, but there have been plenty of emails from Capture One as you can see - where they promise newest tools and technology if I upgrade to the latest or greatest, or toss my perpetual license and subscribe. Correct, they didn't say that iOS app wasn't included, but they never limited their "get all tools/tach" statements either to only desktop application..! They said ALL while iOS version still was in BETA, so there was no clear sign that this would cost yet another license upgrade..! And when you have companies like Adobe, Pixelmator, etc, providing apps for both ecosystems included in their subscription - you would think a serious company like Capture One also would. That without making new subscription models and try convincing their customers over to yet another "be-all-end-all" solution. 

    Then I get mail that I can upgrade to "All in one" for no extra cost. I actually paid $108 and not $179 as I thought, but the gap is actually greater when the new price is more than $179 today. So even if I thought the "no increased cost" was $179, it is actually more than that, and down the road it will cost over $200-something. 

    ""What they are offering here is an EXPANDED subscription.."
    Capture One never said there will be more licenses that we had to upgrade to, they said in all mails, see screenshots, "ALL FEATURES / tech", and it was not limited to desktop

    ""You seem to somehow think that your base subscription entitles you to every single thing that Capture One ever makes.""
    When they say I get all features and technology, included, yes. Except of the presets and such of course. I bought Capture One Pro license, thereafter Capture One Pro Subscription. Who would have thought they needed "All in one" on top of this? 

    ""If you want the add-ons you pay more.  That's how it works."" That's not what they said, it even said it wouldn't cost more, and it does.

    Aleksander

     

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    Im not going to sit here and be a bitch about it. This is a feedback that Capture One needs to improve on before they lose more old-timers. I've had software since Capture One Pro v6 and I'm leaving now because of these licensing changes and lies I've been served, because I'm feeling that I get tricked and lured in to new things every year, only to get tricked again next year.

    This is a feedback that Capture One can take or leave as they wish. If you disagree, that's cool for you, but you have to take all they things Capture One said in to consideration. If they were based in my Country (Norway), they would have been in big problems with such statements, and would need to redact their posts/emails and make clear what they really mean. And they would also have given customers the option to return back to their other alternative again, but we are not given this. Also, my perpetual license is dead after subscribing. This $108 upgrade was only to fool us in to upgrading while closing the door behind us. 

    Their credentials have plummeted in my email spam filter, and that's an accurate statement, more than the "no additional cost" or "get all functions /technology" they have been tossing around for the last couple of years since Phase One and Capture One parted. I don't miss the lower function app from "way back then", but I do miss the philosophy and mentality that Phase One with Capture One served us customers, and I miss the Helpdesk which answered within hours too. 

    So that's that

    Aleksander

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    When I log into my Capture One account, this is what I'm being offered.  The difference between the desktop offer and the all-in-one offer seems pretty clear to me.  I can't speak for what they are showing you.  I currently have a perpetual license to v22, not a subscription so I'm not in the same boat as someone who currently has a subscription.

     

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    BeO I don't expect everything correct, but I expect ALL when they say "all new features and technology" without limiting to desktop class applications while iOS app is still in last step of BETA.

    And correct, main issue in my post here is that they are inaccurate and lies about no increased cost. In fact even the 30% rebated "All in one" is more expensive that what I paid ($108), even if I assume paying $179. 

    Regarding not being able to return to perpetual license. I didn't try last weeks to do this, but I tried sometime back to download and activate my Capture One v22 and use the key I purchased from Capture One, but Activation Server said that I can't use that key / software. So I don't know what will happen. I don't use Catalogs but Sessions, so my older projects is probably safe.

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    John Friend 

    This is what I'm offered. Actually $181.50 and $259 thereafter.


    This is what I paid, $108. It was said to be $179 this next renewal. If NO increase then it should either be $108, at least not more than $179.

    Aleksander

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    BeO

    I don't get any option to upgrade my v22 version to new perpetual. It is completely disabled.

     

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Aleksander Torset Eriksen - I can't speak to your original subscription.  Perhaps you got some sort of introductory rate.  If that's priced in USD, $108 is very low.  I've never, ever seen a yearly Capture One subscription here in the US for that price.  The $179 rate shown for your next year is more like the usual annual subscription.

    The other part of your image is clearly switching to a different subscription plan (the all-in-one plan) that includes more things and thus costs more.   It looks like they are offering you the all-in-one plan for only $2/yr more than your next year of regular subscription ($181 vs $179).  I have no idea if this is only an introductory rate or not (that part is unclear). 

    But, perhaps you're surprised about the $179 price for the regular subscription for the next year.  That is the normal subscription price here, but I can't speak to what Capture One showed you or told you when your first started your subscription.  We'd have to see the actual communication you had back then to be able to comment on that.  Clearly your memory thinks you were deceived.  I can't comment on that except that I rather doubt they ever promised you the ipad/iphone versions of the software.  You have a subscription to Capture One for desktop and you get all upgrades for that particular product only.

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    Edward Dumas Yeah, and they said this while iOS version was in BETA (I'm a BETA tester too in both desktop and iOS). When saying all without limiting to desktop you will assume they also mean ALL and not doing other things later on. 

    I find it increasingly annoying that they don't stick to what they say when it comes to the pricing model or the actual price. I just don't trust the company anymore.

    "No additional cost" for me went from $108 to almost $182, even more than the default price of this year which was $179.

    Anyway. It seem like I'm not the only one.

     

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    John Friend

    $108 was probably introduction price, I can't remember. I used to pay almost $200 for the perpetual every year, so it was a bargain at the time, but I at least got what I paid for. Even if it cost $179 yearly, and even if it only is $2-5 more now with "All in one", they shouldn't say it's no additional cost. This "no additional cost" was sent out to all and not only me. $179 equals to no additional cost for those who was going to get Capture One Pro Subscription this year, $108 was for me. 

    "The other part of your image is clearly switching to a different subscription plan (the all-in-one plan) that includes more things and thus costs more. " That is logical and I will accept that as a fact. What I don't accept is that they served Capture One Pro Subscription with "all new features / technology", then limits the "all features / technology" to platforms while not mentioning this initially. That was back when iOS app was still in BETA and more than just me thought it would come as an addition to Pro, not as an additional license.  

    It's not my memory, it is what they write. Either they should be accurate with no increase in costs or they leave that out, and when they say all new features and functions while iOS app is in BETA, they do it or say "all new features / functions on desktop platform".

    What annoys me further is that I can't go back and upgrade my v22 to new perpetual and just stick with that, but thats out of this scope. 

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    FYI, there are no perpetual license upgrades.  None.  They don't do perpetual license upgrades any more.  That started at the end of last year with their new pricing scheme.  There literally is no upgrade price for a perpetual license.

    If you want a new perpetual license, you just cancel your subscription and buy a new perpetual license.  That's how they do perpetual licensing now, for everyone.  Yes, it sucks.  It's like the opposite of a loyalty program.  No matter how many years you've been a customer, you still pay full price and the same as a brand new user.  Very odd.  Fortunately, the perpetual license does go on sale about once a quarter at B&H so it's possible (in the US, at least) to buy a new perpetual license for $179 from time to time.

    I'm staying perpetual because I dislike subscription for a host of reasons and I figure if I just skip one out of three annual upgrades (which is pretty easy for me to do), then I'm actually paying less than the subscription and getting all the benefits of a perpetual license.  I skipped v23, not because of pricing but because it didn't contain any new features of interest to me.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Aleksadner,

    BeO

    I don't get any option to upgrade my v22 version to new perpetual. It is completely disabled.

    Me neither. I need to click on "Pricing" in the main menu, not on "Plans&Services" in the middle of the page.

     

    What annoys me further is that I can't go back and upgrade my v22 to new perpetual and just stick with that, but thats out of this scope. 

    If you actually can activate v22 with your old licenses and use sessions, then you could probably go back to v22. Manipulate your v23 sessions' Settingsxxx folders and .cos files to downgrade your adjustments and metadata to v22.

    I did this once, downgrading from 15.4 to 15.2 but I think it should be possible from v23 to v22 too. You need a text editor (e.g. on Windows I used Notepad++) which can do changes to multiple files in your folder hierarchy and change a few tags in all .cos files, and eventually the Settingsxxx Folder name. Test your approach thoroughly, and make a copy or backup first.

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I'm staying perpetual because I dislike subscription for a host of reasons

    C1 is a role model how to mistreat subscription customers, imho EDIT: (and perpetual customers as well).

    And regarding inaccuracy or misleading attempts to persuade you to switch, take this screen from Aleksander:

    What does 181,30*/year mean?

    "/ year" means "per year" but what they mean is "for the first year, and then it gets much costlier for you". Granted, we see this all over the place in the market, but here the asterisk isn't stating that. It should be 

    " 181,30* / year ** " with another ** foot note or " 181,30* for the first year ". Their marketing/sales either don't pay attention or are willingly luring one or the other customer who isn't paying attention enough into whatever they want.

    Though I usually don't get trapped easily, and he doesn't either but I fully understand Aleksander, it reveals the real attitude of those companies and unfortunately C1 does not seem to be an exception.

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  • Edward Dumas

    Who knows what C1 plan will be a year from now, always something changes and confusing for their benefit...I only jump to subscription because of 135$ price till next August. They stated my cost next year will be $199 for subscription.  $135 should be every year for what you get IMO..

    2023 version little difference than  2022 IMO.

    Also the all in one package should have been advertised CLEARLY as just an ADD-ON for extra fee after first year.

     

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Edward Dumas

    They stated my cost next year will be $199 for subscription.  $135 should be every year for what you get IMO..

    And, on top of there's a Lightroom Photography Plan for $99/yr that gets you all these:

    • Adobe Photoshop on desktop, iPad, and web
    • Adobe Photoshop Lightroom on desktop, mobile, and web
    • Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic
    • Adobe Firefly
    • Adobe Portfolio
    • Adobe Bridge
    • 20 GB cloud storage

    Note, this is Lightroom AND Photoshop and iPad versions.

    It's pretty clear that C1's prices are just out of whack.

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    BeO

    Sadly the SN from v22 is deactivated and new SN from subscription can only be used. If I cancel subscription now I won't get access to activate my older v22 again with old SN. So it's a lost case.

     

    BeO

    Yep, their pricing models and way of marketing is way out of what I consider as trustworthy and downright suspicious. I hope they clear this up for their own sake.

     Edward Dumas

    Wow, $199 for subscription? That's a serious no-go for me. That's even more than what my perpetual upgrades and purchases ever cost, and this is a yearly cost? How can they defend this new increase (again) and not have tools like Photoshop etc? Dang...

    When they state "next year price" and "no additional cost", it should be like that too. And if it's not the case (like this), then they should limit their statement to either platform, product, etc - while being very clear about it.

    John Friend

    I have this because of Photoshop alone. Now it seems like I'm getting more use of all the applications, including the additional iOS versions. 

    I told C1-support that prices was out of whack 2-3 years ago then they passed $100 for regular perpetual upgrade. But I was fine about it and understood they had to live and develop, as they gave their reasons back then. Now we are talking about almost $200 for a perpetual / subscription? Holy $HT. How much development have we seen in customer support and app side to defend this increase? I see other apps that R&D just as much on every aspects, ref Lightroom and Pixelmator, etc, and you don't see a 2x increase. Mind you that Adobe is a bigger company, but they also have more wages / overhead to pay. More people doesn't mean more efficient either for those who's going to defend Capture One on this aspect. 

    I love Capture One and Sessions workflow, but I just can't defend their policys and price increases any longer. It's time to ask when they will respect us with decent marketing policys and upgrade pricing to keep us around. I'm not going to stick around just because I have sessions from 10 years ago. I also have finals(exports) and can redo the edits somewhere else. 

    Regards,
    Aleksander

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  • Christian Blais

    Hi. I thought I was the only one complaining about the crazy prices of Capture One.

    I am an architecture and real estate photographer. I have an Adobe subscription because I need Photoshop to edit my pictures (generative AI saved more than one picture when I had not been careful enough when shooting!) and Lightroom's management and organization features. But I still have a bit of affection for C1 (e.g. Color Processing) and sometimes I need the Tethering function for product images.

    However, the price I'm offered to renew the perpetual license is crazy (349€).

    C1 has become a pleasure that I can no longer afford and I regret it very much.

    1
  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    If you still want a newer version of Capture One Pro for less, you can keep an eye on B&H and Adorama which seem to regular offer sale prices (about once a quarter for a few days).  The regular price I see is $299 and the sale price is $179 (a significant savings).  Obviously, I'm seeing different pricing than you, but perhaps the same idea still applies to your location.  I wouldn't buy anything right now because a new version with AI masks should be coming out some time before the end of the year and if you buy now you would not necessarily be entitled to that new version.

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  • Edward Dumas

    Very sly company, is like buying a car from dealership

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  • Denis Huk
    Admin

    moving this post to another topic as this has nothing to do with the community/forum

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  • Christian Blais

    Moved or removed?

    if moved, where to? Pricing has everything to do with the community as it is a common concern.

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    Denis Huk

    Capture One v16.x? I wonder if it maybe better suited under Account/Payment etc if moving to any place. 

    I thought it was fitting in this Community/Forum because of the type of content I received from Capture One and what it was about, but certainly better in Account/Payment when I think about it. It was feedback on Capture One's accuracy towards community when it comes to pricing model. 

    Thank you

    Aleksander

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    Forum Feedback is for discussion of overall forum issues (like things related to the forum software and the configuration of that forum software), not product issues.  Putting this thread into the 16.x product forum seems appropriate to me because that's the main product forum and generally has the most traffic.

    It could be placed in the new Account/Payment forum, but it would be far less visible there and I think that forum was meant more for mechanical issues about your account, activating the software or making payments, not so much about product pricing.

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  • Aleksander Torset Eriksen

    John Friend Thanks, it was probably lost in translation for me :) 

    I agree.

    I'm still confused that they didn't look in to the pricing issue and accuracy of what they promise. I got mail about upgrading for no increased cost, and it was still higher than previously. A lot higher if I take in to account what it cost me to go from perpetual to subscription in 2022. No options to roll back to old perpetual version in my case.

    I know it is Black Week sale now, so many people is just going to brush it off, but I find it mildly annoying that they say one thing and don't follow through on it. The campaign was left running until Black Week sales started with wrong information.

    I start to wonder if C1 read these posts or not. They do on FB, but they also tell people to direct questions regarding payment and such in these forums. I have done too after getting told by Capture One staff on my/our group. Having a place to post pricing policys (unlike a FB group), to drown the echoes in, is probably smarter than flooding their 1st support line. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    I'll let post sit here and monitor the situation while holding back on my upgrade button. There's always the economic factor If you can't motivate companies through better policy and communication. For me it has become a principle as a long standing Capture One owner (since v6) and maker of/community administrator at Technical Forum on FB. I might have to resurrect my Adobe Lightroom Classic after this statement, but I'm not paid or affiliated anyway, so that's that..

    Aleksander

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