Still full of bugs :-(
CONTEXT
It's very annoying and frustrating that the very old usability bugs are still available after each new update 😭
Of course I've opened many times support tickets - the support told me, it's not easy to fix all those bugs and that maybe one day.. who knows.. maybe..
So here it goes, year 2020, new version, same no-go bugs for me, which renders the Windows version of Capture One quite useless.
I've switched from LR, as C1 renders much better colors for my RAW files. I can't understand why Phase One is not able to fix such stupid obvious elementary bugs? I don't pay my $ anymore to them and wait until they fix it.
BUGS
1. The broken search
My catalog holds a lot of files. When I try to search based on a file-name string, like "Christmas", the app goes through all the filesystem, search for files based on the file-names, instead for searching inside the database.
Result: the search runs for hours and never finishes.
Error by design, only in the Windows version - the OSX version behaves as expected.
2. The broken file-management
When I switch to a folder, the app searches the files, on the filesystem, instead to look inside the database and render immediately the locally cached thumbnails.
Result: a folder holding hundreds of pictures on the LAN, although it's a pretty speedy 1Gbs, renders the thumbnails in a snail one-by-one tempo, taking ages to finish.
Error by design, only in the Windows version - the OSX version behaves as expected.
I'm leaving out all the other UX bugs, like random TAB-order in the dialogs, broken print-templates, crashes while renaming folders etc. I've described all these bugs in the support tickets and it never brought anything.
My question is: do anybody care for the Windows users? Why don't they fix it? Our family ditched all the Macs this year and the only piece of SW which ran better on Mac, is this C1, as Phase One is not willing to refactore the code-base. Why any new features, what for? Please, first fix all the killer bugs to have users like me paying for the coming versions!
The C1 has the best color-rendering I've seen, which is a master piece act - so it's a shame it behaves like crapware in such basic functionality as is search and UI. I've already bought ACDSee just to be able to search through my pictures. But the paradigm and performance of the color-rendering and image-editing can't be matched to C1.
Anybody any inputs on this?
Thank you,
Andrej
It's very annoying and frustrating that the very old usability bugs are still available after each new update 😭
Of course I've opened many times support tickets - the support told me, it's not easy to fix all those bugs and that maybe one day.. who knows.. maybe..
So here it goes, year 2020, new version, same no-go bugs for me, which renders the Windows version of Capture One quite useless.
I've switched from LR, as C1 renders much better colors for my RAW files. I can't understand why Phase One is not able to fix such stupid obvious elementary bugs? I don't pay my $ anymore to them and wait until they fix it.
BUGS
1. The broken search
My catalog holds a lot of files. When I try to search based on a file-name string, like "Christmas", the app goes through all the filesystem, search for files based on the file-names, instead for searching inside the database.
Result: the search runs for hours and never finishes.
Error by design, only in the Windows version - the OSX version behaves as expected.
2. The broken file-management
When I switch to a folder, the app searches the files, on the filesystem, instead to look inside the database and render immediately the locally cached thumbnails.
Result: a folder holding hundreds of pictures on the LAN, although it's a pretty speedy 1Gbs, renders the thumbnails in a snail one-by-one tempo, taking ages to finish.
Error by design, only in the Windows version - the OSX version behaves as expected.
I'm leaving out all the other UX bugs, like random TAB-order in the dialogs, broken print-templates, crashes while renaming folders etc. I've described all these bugs in the support tickets and it never brought anything.
My question is: do anybody care for the Windows users? Why don't they fix it? Our family ditched all the Macs this year and the only piece of SW which ran better on Mac, is this C1, as Phase One is not willing to refactore the code-base. Why any new features, what for? Please, first fix all the killer bugs to have users like me paying for the coming versions!
The C1 has the best color-rendering I've seen, which is a master piece act - so it's a shame it behaves like crapware in such basic functionality as is search and UI. I've already bought ACDSee just to be able to search through my pictures. But the paradigm and performance of the color-rendering and image-editing can't be matched to C1.
Anybody any inputs on this?
Thank you,
Andrej
0
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NNN636048205322955841 wrote:
..........
My catalog holds a lot of files. ......
The C1 has the best color-rendering I've seen, which is a master piece act - ...
Anybody any inputs on this?
Thank you,
Andrej
Probably not what you want to hear, but I use Lightroom for my DAM : ingesting, culling, rating, searching, and key wording. I have >140,000 photos. I then use CO in a sessions mode. After Media Pro died, I switched my DAM to LR.
The workflow is pretty good. I use LR for my average photos, CO for my best ones.
If CO 12 supported my new Canon 90D, I probably wouldn't need CO 20; though there are some nice improvements.0 -
I wonder whether Capture One doesn't work too well on a LAN? I seem to remember that from past forum posts. If you have a folder on an internal drive, or on a directly attached external drive (USB or similar) do you still have the same problems?
Ian0 -
Ian3 wrote:
I wonder whether Capture One doesn't work too well on a LAN? I seem to remember that from past forum posts. If you have a folder on an internal drive, or on a directly attached external drive (USB or similar) do you still have the same problems?
I am not the OP but short answer is yes.
1. The broken search
I have an open case with them on this (although I see they switched support systems so I should start over). Their suggested solution to me was switch to a SSD drive for image storage. Good lord - no just stop reading all the f'n files every time - you have all the information the database already - or you are supposed to.
In my case I have a 60 000 (ish) image catalogue and if I select the "All Images" collection it takes 20 minutes before it is fully searchable. By that I mean when I select the collection I get a screen full of images right away but the HD spins and spins for 15 - 20 minutes. If while I wait I perform a filter - my test is to use the search panel to select only 4 and 5 star Great Blue Heron photos my onscreen images drop to the known 4 and 5 star image and I have to wait until the system finds one Great Blue Heron photo before I can even select that keyword. Then I have to wait that 20 minutes before all the images I want are on screen. Once I have waited I can then search with various other criteria with no problems.
That kind of selection should be a few seconds (less actually) of query time plus a few moments of rendering thumbnails.
I am finding that smart albums seem to perform better so have created some for each year and I am creating them for various portions of my keyword tree. That makes things better but really this is a software bug.
2. The broken file-management
This I do not suffer from because my local HD is much faster than the LAN but given they seem to be ignoring or not trusting the database and reading from the file system for everything I am not the least bit surprised to hear it.
I too hope they address these issues. And make other improvements in the DAM support but - these performance issues have to be top priority. Well I wish they were.0 -
I do see the same kind of troubles. And I can add one more: Import of new images from a folder with the option "exclude duplicates" being checked. CO seems to read all meta data or to render new thumbnails every time, although most images are alreafy known. Speed is about 3-4 images per second, which with a larger collection results in several minutes until the job is done and the really new images are found. LR could do this in a few seconds. And no, my external SSD on USB3 is not too slow. If I repeat this action, the files are read from Windows' internal cache. The gain in speed is barely noticable. And, to my knowledge, this issue too seems to affect only Windows users. Something is completely wrong with the database handling.
These issues are known at least since version 11 (for two years now!). I opened tickets and support promised to look into it. Until today nothing has happend. Same, by the way, with adding support for some popular lenses that are missing.
Citation from the PhaseOne homepage: "We listen to the needs of our photographers to develop the creative and workflow innovations you need to continually create at the highest standard." A working DAM appears not to be considered as one ofour needs or they don't like Windows users.
Ingo0 -
It's always been slow if exclude duplicates is checked, I think. How is the speed with that turned off?
Ian0 -
With "exclude duplicates" turned off the thumbs for the folder appear instantly. So this is currently the best way, provided that your pictures are well named or dated so that you can easily identify and select the new ones.
Ingo0 -
I've lodged that complaint numerous times since 2017 and they don't care. It's even worse when using a NAS.
It's an absolute travesty that they still think it's okay to suggest to keep your files on an SSD. That may work for the files you're currently working on - but it does NOT work for a whole catalogue. I have 2x8TB drive set as RAID in my NAS which acts as my file server on a 1GB/s LAN. Not an issue with C1 in OSX but with Windows it's horrendous (though transfer speeds on W10 are much higher than with OSX).
I have noticed that C1 20 is at least slightly faster when reading the files but goddamnit - this is not okay. I know they have a special deal with Apple (which is why they only have an iOS app) - but they have to get their **** together!
Here are things you can do to improve this:
1. exclude the CaptureOne and ImageCore processes from being scanned by Windows for threats etc.
2. exclude the NAS drives from being scanned
3. set your NAS to use the SMB3 protocol (disregard AFP!) and tell Windows to use it this way too
A few threats where this has been discussed at length:
[The Capture One forum has migrated to a new platform, as a result all links to Capture One related postsstopped working and have been removed]
[The Capture One forum has migrated to a new platform, as a result all links to Capture One related postsstopped working and have been removed]
[The Capture One forum has migrated to a new platform, as a result all links to Capture One related postsstopped working and have been removed]
[The Capture One forum has migrated to a new platform, as a result all links to Capture One related postsstopped working and have been removed]
https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=29132
https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=27506
https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=27372&p=129616#p129616
https://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=271400 -
I have opened support case about those issues for every version since v9 - no changes whatsoever have come to the application.
Earlier this year I moved all my data from NAS to enterprise HDDs (CO catalogs and raw files live on separate drives) - performance has improved "somewhat" but by only a very small margin.
What we need is a modern Windows application and a redesigned database (COs database is mediocre at best).
Phase One should take a look at what Serif did with their Affinity range of applications and maybe draw some inspiration about modern application design.0 -
Thomas Achermann wrote:
I have opened support case about those issues for every version since v9 - no changes whatsoever have come to the application.
Earlier this year I moved all my data from NAS to enterprise HDDs (CO catalogs and raw files live on separate drives) - performance has improved "somewhat" but by only a very small margin.
What we need is a modern Windows application and a redesigned database (COs database is mediocre at best).
Phase One should take a look at what Serif did with their Affinity range of applications and maybe draw some inspiration about modern application design.
Could you explain some more about your comments re Affinity please?
As far as I can tell, having had several versions of earlier Serif products, whatever changes have been made were all based on the desire to offer a Mac product. Can you help me spot the main differences?
The other main difference is, of course, that the Serif suite sets out to compete with Photoshop and Adobe's document publishing applications where they diverge from Photo Editing. (Perhaps I should write that the other way around.)
The concept of the Personas for firstly making a RAW to something else conversion and then moving on to image manipulation seems to broadly mirror the Adobe approach. However the Develop persona, the nearest equivalent of LR, has no DAM functionality that I can see.
So what design inspiration would be appropriate?
To be frank I use Affinity (very rarely) because it is more affordable than Photoshop. I don't use it for much.
I have never taken to either product (Affinity over many years in its earlier iterations) and frankly the entire PS/Affinity way of doing things is something I find baffling for anything other than the most basic functions.
I would love to understand what aspects of their workings I am missing, especially why I so dislike the interface.
Can you help?
Grant0 -
C-M-B wrote:
I have 2x8TB drive set as RAID in my NAS which acts as my file server on a 1GB/s LAN. Not an issue with C1 in OSX but with Windows it's horrendous (though transfer speeds on W10 are much higher than with OSX).
RAID1 or 0?
What protocol is the NAS using?
You've a 1Gb/s LAN, 1GB/s is 8Gb/s..0 -
Thank you for all your replies, much appreciated, as I don't feel alone having hard time swallowing C1 Windows BUGs 😄.
To use a SSD storage instead of the LAN is just a silly workaround - and TBH also a pretty rude suggestion from the C1 support. Not using the database indexing and relying on the faster file access locally is just absurd. The NAS is meant for storing the images safely, with filesystems like ZFS or BTRFS, giving another level or protection over the locally attached RAID redundancy. Also, the NAS is centrally backup-ed every night to an off-site location (see: backup-123 scheme).
Yes, I'm experiencing a lot of other BUGs as well, which Phase One ignores bringing new high-tech features to image-editing and ignoring the fact, that their foundation code-base is just a huge junkyard. As a pro SW architect I can feel their pain and dilemma, but as a photographer I'm looking into other alternatives. At some point they must decide if they want to refactore their shaky code-base or they ditch the Windows version completely, as it's not possible to lug around the old broken code adding new modules onto that BUG ground.
C1 is a paradox SW for me: rendering the RAWs better than anyone else is able to, but killing the Windows version just because their QA failed and now they don't want to invest more $$$ to fix it. And those BUGs are pretty deeply buried I tell you: Persistence (screwed DB-access, missing indexing in model and queries etc.), IPC and Threading (inter-process-communication, doing more stuff in parallel: crashing and loosing sync), File-Handling (crashes on folder-manipulations, image syncing etc.), GUI (syncing views, lost focus, delayed repaints etc.)
As I'm currently traveling, I've connected my NAS through VPN + WiFi - I didn't expect C1 to run smoothly, but what I've experienced is a complete disaster: the thumbnails are not redrawn, C1 is mixing images together from previous folder and the current one, so I was wondering what happened to my folders/files structure. Then I realized that clicking such fake thumbnail opens the correct file from the current folder, although visually completely different from the thumbnail.. WTF.. Unusable.. A complete No-Go..
Now, just to compare, I've started ACDSee - I thought it would behave better than C1, but I didn't expect it will render via VPN as fast as at the local LAN! Previewing, searching, developing and editing (!!!) - the same lightning speed... So much to the debate "it should be a SSD attached locally"... But, the ACDSee approach to work only in the "session mode" (no database with edits) makes it a PITA unfortunately.
Btw: I've checked C1 open jobs and saw they're looking for a lead SW engineer 😂 But it's in Denmark. This is a caching problem; they seem to use some caching control for the thumbnail-listing and don't force it to refresh correctly. The control takes longer time than expected, being not using the local thumbnail-cache from the catalog but remotely from the file-system and so it times-out. Painfully wrong the whole design.
Stuff like enumerating the files instead of accessing the DB is not just a small BUG which can be easily fixed: it's buried in the SW deeper and must be rewritten and retested. Not reacting to those BUG-reports equals to: "We know it and feel your pain in the Windows version, but do not plan to invest $$$ into refactoring it: take it or leave it, or get a Mac, where the QA was really done."
I'm definitely restarting my DAM research. LR with their silly cloud and subscription model forced me to switch away. ACDSee has no catalog-database for the edits and the PP functionality is not at C1 level. I'll look into DxO today. I'm a bit sad and disappointed TBH 🙄
UPDATE: I've tried now the DxO - it's much more stable than C1, but it's completely blocking/locking the UI as it tries to access the remote files - this happens also when the files were already cached locally, so it seems like a few SW architects should rethink their job positions: locking the UI while resyncing the already cached thumbnails is a clear SW design failure and an UX no-go. The only SW behaving as expected is unfortunately the ACDSee, which manipulates the source files placement instead of using the catalog/metadata 😭 So it looks like this IMHO:
- C1: +non-subscription option, +best RAW rendering, -useless DAM, -full of no-go BUGs
- LR: -subscription-only, -rendering not as nicely as C1, -slow, +working DAM
- DxO: +non-subscription option, average rendering, -blocking UI on file-access, -ignoring cached thumbnails = unusable slow with remote files
- ACDSee: +non-subscription option, average rendering, +super fast DAM/previewing, +remote files no problems, -manipulating source files/folders => R/W permissions needed and destructive files/folders manipulation
🤓
Cheers,
Andrej0 -
Thomas Achermann wrote:
What we need is a modern Windows application
...
Phase One should take a look at what Serif did with their Affinity range of applications and maybe draw some inspiration about modern application design.
Yikes!
I was an early adopter of Affinity Photo for Windows, and although it's decent software, it looks just like a 10 year old PhotoShop - it's utterly derivative, in terms of look and UI - and there's nothing magical under the bonnet.
Indeed, it was as buggy as hell in its earlier incarnations, and far from immune now:
https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/forum/78-photo-bugs-found-on-windows/
I've had more problems with Affinity Photo in its relatively short existence, than I have with Capture One - and I've used Capture One since Capture One LE (2006 or thereabouts).0 -
SFA wrote:
Thomas Achermann wrote:
I have opened support case about those issues for every version since v9 - no changes whatsoever have come to the application.
Earlier this year I moved all my data from NAS to enterprise HDDs (CO catalogs and raw files live on separate drives) - performance has improved "somewhat" but by only a very small margin.
What we need is a modern Windows application and a redesigned database (COs database is mediocre at best).
Phase One should take a look at what Serif did with their Affinity range of applications and maybe draw some inspiration about modern application design.
Could you explain some more about your comments re Affinity please?
As far as I can tell, having had several versions of earlier Serif products, whatever changes have been made were all based on the desire to offer a Mac product. Can you help me spot the main differences?
The other main difference is, of course, that the Serif suite sets out to compete with Photoshop and Adobe's document publishing applications where they diverge from Photo Editing. (Perhaps I should write that the other way around.)
The concept of the Personas for firstly making a RAW to something else conversion and then moving on to image manipulation seems to broadly mirror the Adobe approach. However the Develop persona, the nearest equivalent of LR, has no DAM functionality that I can see.
So what design inspiration would be appropriate?
To be frank I use Affinity (very rarely) because it is more affordable than Photoshop. I don't use it for much.
I have never taken to either product (Affinity over many years in its earlier iterations) and frankly the entire PS/Affinity way of doing things is something I find baffling for anything other than the most basic functions.
I would love to understand what aspects of their workings I am missing, especially why I so dislike the interface.
Can you help?
Grant
I'm not the person you quoted for a response, but I'm an Affinity user and have seen the modern architecture term thrown around a bit.
Modern Architecture in this instance usually refers to a few things. Primarly coding that will take advantage of modern computing power that the base code of much older software base code (not mentioning specifics) can't without an overhaul of the base code. This means that a modern program can have efficiencies due to the way it interacts with hardware and the operating system that would not be possible on older legacy products.
The other piece that might not have as much relevance here for a stict photo workflow perspective is the fact Affinity was built from the ground up with an endgoal of integration across the Affinity App echosystem in mind. If you own all 3 desktop apps and the 2 ipad centric apps, they all use the base file type and can instantly swich between the 3 programs (Photo, Designer, Publisher) in a way that just isn't possible with the way some other legacy programs were designed. The un-named primary competior in that space has a "loose" integration where the apps have to fully open for the handoff which is a painfully slow process by comparision.
In the context of this discussion here, I'm guessing the modern architecture aspect is in reference into C1's ability to use modern computing power and processes to fully utalize both the image processing side as well as the database adn database management aspects.
I personally think the image processing side is quite efficient, the speed of changes and export is better than most of the competition.
I do not use the Database aspect enough to comment on how it compares, especially as somone one that uses Sessions instead of a "full catalog" approach to storage management.0 -
I personally think the image processing side is quite efficient, the speed of changes and export is better than most of the competition.
I do not use the Database aspect enough to comment on how it compares, especially as somone one that uses Sessions instead of a "full catalog" approach to storage management.
Yes, I see it just like that as well: C1 is easily the best at photo-processing - and to avoid the DAMned (no pun intended) functionality, one can use the Session mode. But that leaves all that DAMned use-cases uncovered, like browsing files (C1 displaying the wrong thumbnails, snail-loads the previews, refuses to regenerate the thumbnails etc.) and searching for pictures (C1 ignores the DB and searches easily the whole night through for "christmas").
ACDSee is just right with DAM, so those two apps could be combined, if C1 had the right command-line interface for this, but it doesn't have of course. I've seen work-arounds and batch-files for tricking C1 to edit just 1 RAW and trashing all those C1-generated helper-files. But it seems a kind of silly somehow, to work-around and trick-out a C1 BUG-filled fresh version every time a new release comes out. Worse, a lot of BUGs can't be worked-around with mixing ACDSee into it, like random crashes and dead-locks in the quit-process. It's just sad Phase One doesn't care about this 😕.
Bye,
Andrej0 -
NNN636478494710048253 wrote:
SFA wrote:
Thomas Achermann wrote:
I have opened support case about those issues for every version since v9 - no changes whatsoever have come to the application.
Earlier this year I moved all my data from NAS to enterprise HDDs (CO catalogs and raw files live on separate drives) - performance has improved "somewhat" but by only a very small margin.
What we need is a modern Windows application and a redesigned database (COs database is mediocre at best).
Phase One should take a look at what Serif did with their Affinity range of applications and maybe draw some inspiration about modern application design.
Could you explain some more about your comments re Affinity please?
As far as I can tell, having had several versions of earlier Serif products, whatever changes have been made were all based on the desire to offer a Mac product. Can you help me spot the main differences?
The other main difference is, of course, that the Serif suite sets out to compete with Photoshop and Adobe's document publishing applications where they diverge from Photo Editing. (Perhaps I should write that the other way around.)
The concept of the Personas for firstly making a RAW to something else conversion and then moving on to image manipulation seems to broadly mirror the Adobe approach. However the Develop persona, the nearest equivalent of LR, has no DAM functionality that I can see.
So what design inspiration would be appropriate?
To be frank I use Affinity (very rarely) because it is more affordable than Photoshop. I don't use it for much.
I have never taken to either product (Affinity over many years in its earlier iterations) and frankly the entire PS/Affinity way of doing things is something I find baffling for anything other than the most basic functions.
I would love to understand what aspects of their workings I am missing, especially why I so dislike the interface.
Can you help?
Grant
I'm not the person you quoted for a response, but I'm an Affinity user and have seen the modern architecture term thrown around a bit.
Modern Architecture in this instance usually refers to a few things. Primarly coding that will take advantage of modern computing power that the base code of much older software base code (not mentioning specifics) can't without an overhaul of the base code. This means that a modern program can have efficiencies due to the way it interacts with hardware and the operating system that would not be possible on older legacy products.
The other piece that might not have as much relevance here for a stict photo workflow perspective is the fact Affinity was built from the ground up with an endgoal of integration across the Affinity App echosystem in mind. If you own all 3 desktop apps and the 2 ipad centric apps, they all use the base file type and can instantly swich between the 3 programs (Photo, Designer, Publisher) in a way that just isn't possible with the way some other legacy programs were designed. The un-named primary competior in that space has a "loose" integration where the apps have to fully open for the handoff which is a painfully slow process by comparision.
In the context of this discussion here, I'm guessing the modern architecture aspect is in reference into C1's ability to use modern computing power and processes to fully utalize both the image processing side as well as the database adn database management aspects.
I personally think the image processing side is quite efficient, the speed of changes and export is better than most of the competition.
I do not use the Database aspect enough to comment on how it compares, especially as somone one that uses Sessions instead of a "full catalog" approach to storage management.
That is exactly what I was refering to. They decided to start over from scratch instead of continuing fidling around with a 20 year old code base.
What is beyond my comprehension is how mediocre the DAM funcionality in CO is. They bought Media Pro years ago and insted of integrating it´s db functionality into CO they killed it off.0 -
Think it's a bug but small magnitude... regardless would like the keyboard shortcut back. Prior, when selecting an adjustment slider, could use the keyboard arrow keys to increase/decrease values or fine tune image rotation. That little feature or adjustment aid has gone somewhere and cannot find a way in preferences etc. to toggle back to functionality. Is this a known issue? 0 -
NN635550633556125745UL wrote:
Think it's a bug but small magnitude... regardless would like the keyboard shortcut back. Prior, when selecting an adjustment slider, could use the keyboard arrow keys to increase/decrease values or fine tune image rotation. That little feature or adjustment aid has gone somewhere and cannot find a way in preferences etc. to toggle back to functionality. Is this a known issue?
You can still click in the values box and adjust it by using up and down arrow keys. Mouse scroll wheel now by default scrolls the tools, but in Preferences you can change it to adjust sliders instead. Preferences>General>Tool tabs and check the box that says Scroll wheel changes slider value.
Ian0 -
Ian3 wrote:
NN635550633556125745UL wrote:
Think it's a bug but small magnitude... regardless would like the keyboard shortcut back. Prior, when selecting an adjustment slider, could use the keyboard arrow keys to increase/decrease values or fine tune image rotation. That little feature or adjustment aid has gone somewhere and cannot find a way in preferences etc. to toggle back to functionality. Is this a known issue?
You can still click in the values box and adjust it by using up and down arrow keys. Mouse scroll wheel now by default scrolls the tools, but in Preferences you can change it to adjust sliders instead. Preferences>General>Tool tabs and check the box that says Scroll wheel changes slider value.
Ian
It is a great mystery to me why anyone would think to REMOVE an already existing and highly useful feature from a new version. For people working with touchpads this might be a complete upgrade deal breaker (it certainly is for me). It isn't as though the keyboard keys are doing something else now, so why disable this capability? Unclear....0 -
DaniZ wrote:
Ian3 wrote:
NN635550633556125745UL wrote:
Think it's a bug but small magnitude... regardless would like the keyboard shortcut back. Prior, when selecting an adjustment slider, could use the keyboard arrow keys to increase/decrease values or fine tune image rotation. That little feature or adjustment aid has gone somewhere and cannot find a way in preferences etc. to toggle back to functionality. Is this a known issue?
You can still click in the values box and adjust it by using up and down arrow keys. Mouse scroll wheel now by default scrolls the tools, but in Preferences you can change it to adjust sliders instead. Preferences>General>Tool tabs and check the box that says Scroll wheel changes slider value.
Ian
It is a great mystery to me why anyone would think to REMOVE an already existing and highly useful feature from a new version. For people working with touchpads this might be a complete upgrade deal breaker (it certainly is for me). It isn't as though the keyboard keys are doing something else now, so why disable this capability? Unclear....
Why is it a deal breaker with a touch pad? If I enable the preference I mentioned "Scroll wheel changes slider value" then my touchpad controls the slider perfectly well. (I never use a mouse these days!) Or, as I said, you can click in the value box (for instance the Kelvin value and the arrow keys adjust it.) Or if you want to leave the Preference unchecked, you can use Alt with the scroll wheel or with the touchpad to move the sliders. (The reason for changing it was to accommodate the scrolling tools, which was a very frequent request from users.)
Ian0 -
DaniZ wrote:
Ian3 wrote:
NN635550633556125745UL wrote:
Think it's a bug but small magnitude... regardless would like the keyboard shortcut back. Prior, when selecting an adjustment slider, could use the keyboard arrow keys to increase/decrease values or fine tune image rotation. That little feature or adjustment aid has gone somewhere and cannot find a way in preferences etc. to toggle back to functionality. Is this a known issue?
You can still click in the values box and adjust it by using up and down arrow keys. Mouse scroll wheel now by default scrolls the tools, but in Preferences you can change it to adjust sliders instead. Preferences>General>Tool tabs and check the box that says Scroll wheel changes slider value.
Ian
It is a great mystery to me why anyone would think to REMOVE an already existing and highly useful feature from a new version. For people working with touchpads this might be a complete upgrade deal breaker (it certainly is for me). It isn't as though the keyboard keys are doing something else now, so why disable this capability? Unclear....
Software development tool developers are not immune from the vice of removing things that work well and are in common use. As extreme examples Apple "removed" Aperture and Microsoft regularly introduce entire products that have very short lives before being dumped. I have a Windows Phone which is about to become entirely obsolete. That's a shame. It does what I want it to do, is durable and has great battery life.
That said I'm sure the C1 development team do not intended to drop features by design but may be forced to do so by other changes, some of which may be outside their immediate control.
Grant0 -
I'm still wondering why PhaseOne ignores us, Windows users? After Apple focused on removing HW parts from the MacBook Pro, they've lost a lot of loyal users. I was forced to switch back to Win10 as well, after they removed not only the USB ports, matte screen, HDMI, RJ45, SD reader etc., but the damn thing lacks now also the F-keys and was designed (to be slim and s/e/x/i, of course..) to throttle-down the CPU after starting anything just a little heavier, e.g. CaptureOne. So a lot of fellow developers and photographers moved to Win10. I thought: lucky me, there is a Win-version of anything I use. But it was not the case, as PhaseOne ignores the C1 quality completely.
To add new features onto the existing shaky code-base means no quality-control - and that means no interest to invest $$$ into the SW future.
I can imagine only 2 possible concepts for ignoring user-reported BUGs:
1. They happily wait until the SW falls apart and then announce stopping supporting it, hoping they can sell a few more licenses for the current broken version until then - OR
2. They know and care, but the management is unable to solve the situation, as with every new C1-Win version the investment would be even more $$$, so they try to focus on keeping the Mac-added features also onto the shaky C1-Win code-base with the limited Win-developers resources - and keep organizing meetings and discussing with the HR how to solve it.
Normally, there should be a SW-architect, who draws to the management a red-path how to proceed. His task should be to design a revitalization-plan for the C1-Win version, covering these topics:
- code-refactoring design
- detailed code-reviews
- GIT-merging strategy to parallel move onward with the Mac-version AND to bug-fix the existing version
- manual UX testing
- automatic unit-testing (this depends on refactoring the code-base, to decouple the classes from each-other)
It means more work for the developers, for the architect and $$$/time for the management - but without this, the C1-Win will stay a PoS until it dies soon.
Every time I want to edit/browse my photos, I remember this sad thread as of the frustration C1 gives me, hiding mine photos, displaying the wrong ones and crashing. So instead of focusing on the photography, my brain switches back to the SW-mode thinking how to save this bloody failed baby from dying.
Happy New Year to everybody 😉!
Andrej0 -
Andrej,
Your tale is interesting but is it known insider fact or fiction?
We all know that Apple are more than willing to do things to both hardware and software that user find inconvenient, to out it mildly. And that they expect the intermediate hardware market suppliers and software developers to repair the damage.
We also know that Microsoft seems to have used the excuse of "agile" computing to do much the same thing although on the hardware side they have long been used to the wild west of development and supply that lacks the controls that Apple prefers.
That said I'm not aware of any software developer that is immune from software problems or, at the desktop level, the compromises of offering a wide spread of user "needs" solutions at the lowest possible cost. And it needs to run on "consumer" hardware at Supercomputer speeds.
Back in the day when developers could claim control, takes years to develop and release a product and embed versions of third party code that had years of life ahead of it in order to ensure consistency of operation no matter what problems later versions introduced, quality control was somewhat easier to manage. Some even managed it quite well.
But "Agile" development, internet driven expectations and delivery and the accompanying "security risk" marketing requiring constant updates and monthly patch releases have pretty much eliminated the "make it self contained and controlled" option. Except for those companies still working on elderly mainframes.
Affordable desktop database systems seem to have their limits as far as tuning for purpose is concerned.
My experience with developers of commercial business software is that they tread a fine line trying to balance processing speed against number of records to be processed and number of records in the database.
The settings and design can be tuned for speed and can be tuned for volume and satisfy either expectation but doing both is a greater compromise. Unless one can afford some hardware designed for server operation and the typically higher server OS software license cost and set up experience overhead to run it.
I would guess that someone will point to Aperture as an example of a great image database to large numbers of images. Would you really expect Apple with its access to the depths of its own software technology to produce something that was not a great data handler? Odd that they dropped it. Not worth the effort to keep it going for their cash generation strategy?
Microsoft seem to be more interested in converting people to on-line applications than they are to enhance desk-top products. That's not great for "serious" photographers using new cameras that produce ever larger files and more and more data to shift around. But it's not so bad for the mobile device army that produces the majority of images created around the world every day. Those who rely in on-line libraries for their cataloguing and are happy with whatever editing apps they can find for their phones (if they edit at all.)
In terms of C1 I think you are not correct about development focus, although as a Windows user I recognise that the Mac solution offers opportunities that are not available for Windows.
However the Mac solution for anything, compared to Windows, seems to require more attention to keep things functional and I suspect that the majority of C1 users have been and still are sold on the traditional "Mac for integrated Creative Applications" philosophy. They may or may not be right about that. I have no relevant experience that allows me to comment but I do wonder if that is as realistic today as it might have been some years ago.
My guess is that the majority of current C1 users are also Mac users.
If correct and if I am right about the need for greater attention required to keep the Mac stuff under control then it makes sense to have some sort of bias of effort towards the Mac side of things.
However I have not personally detected a lack of support and development for Windows. Indeed for the most part the Windows versions, in my experience, seem to have fewer issues than the Mac versions. Perhaps I would think differently if I had been running Windows 10 since it was introduced.
I suspect that the problem you seem to be experiencing, especially the more catastrophic situations you hint at, are not the same as most people are experiencing.
Perhaps the C1 team could develop a complete hardware and software solution that could be certified and provided with 5star support for those willing to pay for it? It would be one way to offer a controlled solution that would be less susceptible to the variability of components and configurations that the MS Windows open market creates.
At least that way design, quality control and testing would be a viable proposition.
Grant0 -
I would add "broken color management" [The Capture One forum has migrated to a new platform, as a result all links to Capture One related postsstopped working and have been removed]
I think it is enough for me to spend so many dollars every year.0 -
Downloaded betas/new version trials every now and then, but I've been away for over a year doing other type of work.
Quite surprised about the full oficial Fujifilm support and wonder what lead to that 180-degree turnaround. Very appreciative nonetheless, as I think it's for the better. Layers was a welcome addition.
This thread, unfortunately, is still as fitting now as it was 3+ years ago.
What I had resorted to was abandoning catalogs and breaking projects manually in system folders; browsing them from a 'master' session. I'd still encounter these rough patches, but with less overhead. I was the DAM essentially. It kept me calmer. 😂
Got to say that the interface now is a little more powerful and polished.
I just hope that the hipster marketing push of the past couple releases - and fuji partnership - is bringing in enough to spare for at least a database revamp in windows.0 -
I don't have any of the problems mentioned in this thread, but I do have little good to say about Affinity. Their forum is full of power users who are mostly there to tell you you're doing it wrong and why would you want that feature? and the developers never, ever reply to feature requests. P1 has been very very quick to respond every time I've needed help, Affinity are very much fans of the Apple method: here's how it is. Thanks for your money.
Everything sucks but C1 sucks less. =)0 -
Phase One must be losing a lot of customers because of the performance problems and bugginess of the Windows version. I was very impressed with the quality of image it can produce and, but for the performance problems and frequent crashes I'd have bought it. But my 30-day trial version is unusable with any catalogue of more than a couple of thousand images.
I have seen the complaints going back at least three years. That the problems have not yet been fixed reflects very badly on the company and does enormous harm to it reputation.
UPDATE: Even the forum is buggy. I was not offered anywhere to add my name, so it decided to call me FirstName LastName. Duh!
0 -
The usability bugs in the WIidows version are dreadful. I have been a software developer for over 40 years and I would have been embarrassed to have my name associated with this product in my first year as a programmer.
It looks to me as if they employed a programmig genius on the image rendering and a total umpty on the bread-and-butter stuff.
Why the developers are faffing around adding new features when there are basic usability bugs to be fixed is hard to understand.
Please, just fix it!
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