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LCC and other tools

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17 comments

  • Grant Kernan
    I experimented and now can answer my own question. I can make many adjustments to the white card. When I use the Make LCC, Capture One seems to ignore all my adjustments and just uses the file as shot.

    If I rotate and crop or straighten, Capture One still correctly applies the LCC data. Good to know.

    If anyone is interested.

    Grant K
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  • vpv
    There was webinar on Creative Live with Dave Gallagher from Capture Integration and Nino Batista. Dave explained how they've been using big white sheet of paper to record light and use as LCC shot for art reproduction purpose. To unify/normalize the light on the surface
    And, FYI - LCC does not depend on White balance

    Thanks,
    Pavel ~ www.instagram.com/torontointeriors.photography/
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  • Grant Kernan
    Thanks Pavel,
    Thought that was a link for the webinar? I will look for the webinar.

    I have been using a program [Equalight] for a dozen years with scan backs and with Nikons, which is similar but different.
    That program is used outside of C1 and outside of PS. Both the White Card and the image file must be cropped the same, the file size must be identical. White balance and camera profile for the white card are not important. Equalight cannot use C1's Tiff files unless they are resaved in PS as there is difference with how the pixel blocks are saved.

    So recently I have been trying to do more within C1 to streamline my work flow. I have been getting good results.
    I like that the colour cast is also taken into account.

    I do shoot a large [bigger that the art] white card slightly defocussed. I make an LCC and apply it to my image file.

    What is nice is that I can alter my image file... Straighten / Crop / Apply adjustment layers without affecting the LCC accuracy. This is a real time saving.
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  • HansB
    I'm not a professional, and I'm not doing a lot of artwork reproduction. However, I use the LCC tool quite often. Usually as 'The secret HDR tool' after shooting live sports under tricky light conditions. But also use it when looking for perfection, for example when reproducing my own drawings and digitizing my b&w medium-format roll film negatives.

    Grant Kernan wrote:
    I experimented and now can answer my own question. I can make many adjustments to the white card. When I use the Make LCC, Capture One seems to ignore all my adjustments and just uses the file as shot.

    If I rotate and crop or straighten, Capture One still correctly applies the LCC data. Good to know.

    If anyone is interested.

    Grant K

    I’ve tested it, too, a while ago. LCC is done on pure raw information. Therefore LCC is the 1st thing I do if I use it.

    Grant Kernan wrote:
    ...
    I usually defocus my lens a bit to capture the White Card.
    ...

    When looking for highest accuracy, I don’t defocus my lens. Defocusing shifts lens groups within the lens and changes the the LCC distribution. And I try to shoot the LCC at the aperture I'll be using. (Same for the zoom if I have no other choice than using a zoom lens.)

    I usually shoot a well lit white card or reflector somewhere between focused object and lens. It’s automatically out of focus. Shooting a white reflector in focus at the place of the object never caused a problem for me. As long as it was clean, and flat.

    The closer to the lens, the less it cares for the object’s lighting. So if I want to LCC the lens only, I shoot a well lit white card closer to the lens. And if I want to even out the lighting, too, I use a white reflector close to or at the place of the object.

    vpv wrote:
    There was webinar on Creative Live with Dave Gallagher from Capture Integration and Nino Batista. Dave explained how they've been using big white sheet of paper to record light and use as LCC shot for art reproduction purpose. To unify/normalize the light on the surface
    And, FYI - LCC does not depend on White balance

    Thanks,
    Pavel ~ http://www.instagram.com/torontointeriors.photography/

    Good hint. I’ll try to find that webinar. Is it public?


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Grant Kernan
    Defocus was a necessary step with the Large Format lenses where lens elements don't move. So I will have to consider that with regard to dslr work. I am only using prime lenses and the focus change is very minor. I don't use Zoom lenses where lens groups would move around. The reason for the defocus is so that any texture in the white card is removed. This is especially evident when side lighting is used to reveal texture such as brush strokes and pallet knife work. I found that it is crucial to place the White card at the copy board so it receives the same lighting as the painting.

    What you are describing is perfect for lens fall off and colour cast.

    When a larger painting is imaged with most of the light coming from one side there is easily a stop of light volume difference from the leading edge to the opposite side of the painting. Moving the White card closer to the lens or lighting it differently will not work for this scenario...Because I am using the White Card Data to correct for uneven lighting as well as Cosine to the 4th - Lens Fall Off.

    But thank you for the description of

    "I’ve tested it, too, a while ago. LCC is done on pure raw information. Therefore LCC is the 1st thing I do if I use it."
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  • Alain Decamps
    HansB wrote:
    ...However, I use the LCC tool quite often. Usually as 'The secret HDR tool' after shooting live sports under tricky light conditions. ...

    I usually shoot a well lit white card or reflector somewhere between focused object and lens. It’s automatically out of focus. Shooting a white reflector in focus at the place of the object never caused a problem for me. As long as it was clean, and flat.

    The closer to the lens, the less it cares for the object’s lighting. So if I want to LCC the lens only, I shoot a well lit white card closer to the lens. And if I want to even out the lighting, too, I use a white reflector close to or at the place of the object.

    Regards,
    Hans

    Can you give some information about the "white card" that you use at live sports?


    Alain
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  • Grant Kernan
    Hi Hans,
    We have different needs. Mine is strictly for the studio.
    I use a clean 40x60 inch sheet of Diabond or Foamcore, for Fine Art repro work...This would not work for sports though...

    What might work is the Expodisc or a small square of a white lighting plastic that sign makers use. The Expodisc would be my choice as you could snap it in place and then quickly remove it without having to thread it onto your lens. It also will help with white balance, exposure, and it should provide a good file for LCC... The caveat is that you would need to remove your lens hood.

    Plastic or Perplex could be polished and cleaned. You can just hold it over the lens perhaps leaving your lens shade in place...Because you would have an oversize piece, it might work with lenses that will not accept screw in filters on the front threads.

    Different tools for different applications.

    I wonder what Phase One suggests or do they have a solution for sale with their technical cameras?
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  • Grant Kernan
    Looks like there is a "Universal Lens Calibrator Kit" available from Phase One.
    http://captureonecomplete.com/uk/index. ... &Itemid=89
    About 79 Euro
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  • Alain Decamps
    Grant Kernan wrote:
    Looks like there is a "Universal Lens Calibrator Kit" available from Phase One.
    http://captureonecomplete.com/uk/index. ... &Itemid=89
    About 79 Euro


    I knew about the lens calibration kit, but I was specially interested in the mentioned use for sport photography.
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  • HansB
    Hi Alain,


    HansB wrote:
    ...
    I'm not a professional, and I'm not doing a lot of artwork reproduction. However, I use the LCC tool quite often. Usually as 'The secret HDR tool' after shooting live sports under tricky light conditions.
    ...

    When I wrote this I just wanted to say that white cards, lens- and light corrections are not my main use of the LCC tool.

    There was an article about 'The secret HDR tool' on the image professor's blog, using LCC for HDR effects. But it seems the article is gone. It basically works like this:
    + create a LCC of your image
    + disable 'Color Cast' correction
    + keep 'Uniform Light' enabled
    + adjust the level of 'Uniform Light' correction
    Usually values up to 30 are good to open up hard shadows. Higher Values really give a HDR-like look.
    No white card for this.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • HansB
    Hi Grant Kernan,


    Yes, our needs are different. Surely for live sports, but also when doing reproduction. But more in the way that I have to make sure that strong paper structures like in japanese or aquarel papers don't distract from the charcoal or pastel drawing while you are showing the structure of the strokes. And I guess you are reproducing much larger works than I do.

    I also use lens correction combined with light fall off for copying my negatives.
    Lens correction without light fall off is something I use in macro photography, for example.

    In my reply to Alain I explained 'The secret HDR tool' I use LCC for. Maybe you find it interesting, too. But there is no white card involved. I just tried to say that light fall off and lens correction are not my main use of the LCC tool. I didn't want to cause any confusion, but it seems I did.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Grant Kernan
    Hi Fellas,
    Thanks for the responses.
    Hans, when copying art the quality of light is important. One can enhance texture or diminish it depending on what is desired [IE the structure of pastel paper]. I happen to use a couple 900 watt Northlights which make use of High-Intensity Ceramic Discharge Lamps. They are no longer being made which is a pity as they have a slot for polarizers or white diffusion material [12x38 inch face].
    They can be quite actinic in nature or they can be made to behave like soft boxes. Their positioning will dictate whether texture is revealed or diminished. In any case the white card and the LCC filter are important for uniform lighting.

    See if I understand this...
    Using the LCC Tool 'for secret HDR' don't make a white card white card shot:
    1st Create LCC from your image file with dust unselected.
    Unselect Colour Cast
    Select - Enable Uniform Light and back off the amount to a smaller desired amount to achieve open shadows.

    With slide or negative copying the LCC uniform light is quite desirable. I recently had to use an even light box to copy
    a large glass plate negative. So I made an image from the light table to be my [white card] image.

    Incidentally are you zigaligning your copy set up?

    I originally started this post to query what tools could be used. I know now that one cannot clean the white card image with the spot tool [well you could but the data will be ignored], but you can use most of the tools on your image file. You can even rotate the image file straighten and crop.
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  • SFA
    HansB wrote:
    Hi Grant Kernan,


    Yes, our needs are different. Surely for live sports, but also when doing reproduction. But more in the way that I have to make sure that strong paper structures like in japanese or aquarel papers don't distract from the charcoal or pastel drawing while you are showing the structure of the strokes. And I guess you are reproducing much larger works than I do.

    I also use lens correction combined with light fall off for copying my negatives.
    Lens correction without light fall off is something I use in macro photography, for example.

    In my reply to Alain I explained 'The secret HDR tool' I use LCC for. Maybe you find it interesting, too. But there is no white card involved. I just tried to say that light fall off and lens correction are not my main use of the LCC tool. I didn't want to cause any confusion, but it seems I did.


    Regards,
    Hans


    Hans,

    Thank you for reminding me about the Secret HDR tool application of LCC.

    I had not played with that for a while - at least not as any form of HDR. I had looked at it for some rather drastic out of focus intervening obstacle removal but success was very limited, unsurprisingly.

    I have just refreshed my memory of it with some more sensible images with interesting results.

    I will dig up a few more to see what cone be done with them.

    SFA
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  • peter Frings
    [
    HansB wrote:
    ...
    There was an article about 'The secret HDR tool' on the image professor's blog, using LCC for HDR effects. But it seems the article is gone.


    googling* "lcc hdr" yields this one: Would that be the one?

    Thanks for pointing this out; interesting application!

    [update] Too bad it doesn't work for Fuji raw files ☹️ (at least not in C1 v9)

    * Actually, "duck-duck-going" it 😊

    Cheers,
    Peter.
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  • HansB
    Hi Peter,


    It was a detailed article called 'The Secret HDR Tool'. This was the link
    http://blog.phaseone.com/2011/01/13/the ... -hdr-tool/
    It's quite old (2011), and it's no longer available. There was an archive somewhere, too, but I cannot find it anymore.


    Regards,
    Hans


    Edit:
    It became part of the v7 user guide.
    http://downloads.phaseone.com/CO7-user-guide-EN.pdf
    See page 193 ff.
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  • Grant Kernan
    One cannot apply a white card LCC and also use the LCC tool as the secret HDR for the same image.

    I mentioned that I started with Equal Light which makes uniform lit files but from Tiffs not Raw files. So one could generate a Tiff using the LCC as an HDR from the Raw Image [without the white card] and then use Equal Light for uniform lit images [using the white card].

    Or simply use the High Dynamic Range Tool after applying an LCC [using the White Card] to the Raw image.
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  • Alain Decamps
    HansB wrote:
    Hi Peter,


    It was a detailed article called 'The Secret HDR Tool'. This was the link
    http://blog.phaseone.com/2011/01/13/the ... -hdr-tool/
    It's quite old (2011), and it's no longer available. There was an archive somewhere, too, but I cannot find it anymore.


    Regards,
    Hans


    Edit:
    It became part of the v7 user guide.
    http://downloads.phaseone.com/CO7-user-guide-EN.pdf
    See page 193 ff.


    Thanks
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