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Images duplicate in catalogue

NNN636768811404910084
Hi,

somehow, when I import images from my hard-drive, they show up all good. Then, I rate them, add them to catalogs, etc. And sometimes they just appear double in the folder. Syncing doesn't help (of course, as sync is missing the idea of syncing to a folder - what the heck is it for, anyways?).

Any ideas?

Cheers,
sbv

PS: BTW: many bugs, still!
database corrupts, some jpgs don't show a background plane and can't be rated - don't tell me the jpg is corrupted, as it may be, but it shows properly and any other system doesn't have a problem, syncing really misses out as stated above, counts on the filters appear wrong at times (I guess when the DB corrupts).
And tons of missing features: no facial recognition, no tags for considering the full path (ala LRs plugin Photo Upload), no sub-folder display, no pano, etc. But the one I describe here is really a killer of the app: it fails at it's core!!
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Comments

12 comments

Date Votes
  • SFA
    Have you run the Verification process on the catalogue?

    You probably have but it was not specifically mentioned so I thought the question should be asked.

    Grant
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    NNN636768811404910084 wrote:
    somehow, when I import images from my hard-drive, they show up all good. Then, I rate them, add them to catalogs, etc. And sometimes they just appear double in the folder.

    What do you mean by "add them to catalogs"? I thought you already imported your images into your catalog?

    Your line "And sometimes they just appear double in the folder" puzzles me. Do you look at your folder from Windows File Explorer, or from Capture One, Library, Folders section?
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  • NNN636768811404910084
    Hey,

    thanks for helping me, gents!! Really appreciate it!

    @SFA: yes, I did. I ran it twice. It did not solve the problem fully (eg : filter-count was off. It showed eg 119 items in a folder that only had 86 pics.)

    @Paul:
    My description refers to a folder in Capture One, not Windows Explorer. Here is what I did:
    1) import the pics (from multiple sub-folders - say 6-8000 pics total.
    2) rate them
    3) sometimes when I clicked on a sub-folder which held, say 100 pics, all of the sudden, it started counting up and doubled each pic in that folder and showed 200 pics. Like duplicate entries in a DB...

    Make sense?

    Cheers,
    B.
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  • SFA
    Just in case it is relevant here, if you happen to create a second variant of an image (or a third, fourth, etc.) you would still see only one copy of the original image file but the count of "variants" would be more as each variant is counted.

    If you happened to be doing any filtering at the same time the effects of the filter would be taken into account.

    Variants of a single source image are not always visible. They can be stacked and unstacked.

    Even if you are aware of variants the counting related to them can sometimes be a little opaque in some situations.

    This may not be your problem BUT it would be good to eliminate the possibility as part of the investigation.


    Grant
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    NNN636768811404910084 wrote:
    @Paul:
    My description refers to a folder in Capture One, not Windows Explorer. Here is what I did:
    1) import the pics (from multiple sub-folders - say 6-8000 pics total.
    2) rate them
    3) sometimes when I clicked on a sub-folder which held, say 100 pics, all of the sudden, it started counting up and doubled each pic in that folder and showed 200 pics. Like duplicate entries in a DB...

    Thanks for the update. Point 3, the double pics is really weird. If they are not variants like Grant suggested, my question is, do they have the same name+extension. No raw + jpeg for example.

    Maybe you can post a link to a screenshot?
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  • NNN636768811404910084
    Hey guys,

    you are amazing and so responsive. Thank you for bearing with me.
    @Grant: I am positive that they are not stacked. I have 2 indications here: a) no variant count indicator on any of the corners and b) if I click "collapse all" nothing happens.

    @Paul: yes they do. They are the identical file which I can verify if I choose "show in explorer". It will point to only one file on disk. Also the folder on disk has exactly 1/2 of the images in C1...

    ☹️

    If you let me know what to show / share, I'd be happy to!

    Cheers,
    sbv
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  • NNN636768811404910084
    One thing I notice is that the DB check fails quite often. Especially once I delete the files from the catalog and empty the trash. It fails at "Checking stack image relationships". I repair, open, don't do anything except remove 2 images that are actually one, clear from trash, check again. It is reproduceable...
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  • SFA
    OK, so no little square in the top left corner of the thumbnail.

    Is there any possibility that the files have accidentally been imported as both "managed" and Referenced files somehow?

    I could sort of imagine that you could get duplicated images in what might be folders with duplicate names but at different places in the system's folder structure.

    If that happened it might not be entirely obvious unless one suspected it might have happened.

    If it is duplicating the files then adding, say, a colour tag to one file - or a unique test text entry in a metadata field perhaps, should then give a count of 2 for the field value when displayed as a filter.

    Either that or use the Show in Explorer option and carefully check where they point (something you may already have done?)

    The log files may also be useful but only if you are someone who perhaps enjoys wading through log file type data.


    Grant

    ETA: Having just read your most recent post it does suggest that there is something strange going in internally.

    It may be easiest to simply create a new Catalogue (small one as a test) to see if you get the same problem.

    Your original post reads "When I import from my hard drive ..."

    Are you leaving the files where they are (Referenced files) or importing them into the catalogue's folder structure (Managed Files) when importing?
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  • NNN636768811404910084
    Hey Grant,

    what I wanted to do is use the referenced workflow - but how can I validate?
    Having used the "show in explorer" option confirms it is the same file. Any other way to test?

    I have tested adding a dummy rating and after a few seconds it does appear on the other image - no intervention needed.

    Regarding a new catalog: happy to do that (even though painful with >100k pics, partially edited in LR, but hey). Can you help me figure one thing out: how do I keep my C1 edits? I sync the Metadata and the .xmp files appear, but when I then remove a file from a catalog, empty the trash and then re-import, the edits are gone... ☹️

    PS: I really dislike the asynchronous working style of C1 - it does not always show what it's doing and you assume you are done, but actually it is not. Even with simple things like "select all". If you have a folder with many pics (say >50, which is not many, really), upon clicking on the folder until they display takes a split second. And instead of buffering commands, C1 does them in parallel - leading to only a part of the pics selected...
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  • SFA
    I may not be the best person to advise about catalogues as I hardly use them.

    I'll have to look it up but in theory the folders, if "Managed" will be in the Catalogue folder structure in explorer and if "referenced" will not be in the catalogue folder structure but in its own location. In the library tool the is a "show Info" option that will give further details about the folder currently selected (when selected specifically - not as a "Smart Album " for example.

    If I remember correctly the file info also identifies whether the file is managed or referenced.

    HOWEVER - if there is a problem with the catalogue are there seems to be such information may not be entirely accurate!

    Has this problem existed since you imported the LR catalogue or did it develop at some point after import?

    Did you take time to tidy up the LR catalogue (often spoken of as 'cleaning') before importing?

    From memory of reports from others going back a few versions it seems that LR can appear to operate quite normally with its internal controls in less than ideal fettle in ways that are not identified by external applications - like the C1 import tool.

    (As an aside, in the past I have spent quite some time dealing with similar situations with PDF files which looked OK in some readers and not in others and could be completely garbled when extracting just the text form the file. A PDF file is just a form of database. Sometimes one had to devise a step through process that allowed them to be "cleaned" before they returned to more closely following the rules of the "standards" laid down for them.)

    Yes you can save and re-use the C1 edit information. There are some posts and some articles in the Support system that cover the subject but as it's not something I have ever tried (I use sessions almost exclusively) I don't feel at all qualified to offer specific guidance or recommendations to the best description article or post for what to do.

    The Edit data is not part of the metadata sidecar file. Howeve r it can be exported for sharing between C1 systems. LR and the others would not have any way to used the information it contains.

    Hopefully someone who does know will be following this thread and chip in. Paul for example if he has the time right now but other may be around as well.

    As you have already imported once I assume you may already have read the articles and watched the video? So it may be that you are really most likely to find useful tips in the practical experiences of others.

    There will be several threads in the forum - but finding them, especially the most specifically relevant ones, may require quite a bit of reading.

    In theory the way to move a catalogue or some of its entries to another catalog is via an export-then-import process and include the edits. This will typically clean things up automatically.

    The only problem may be whether the export works nicely from a probably corrupt starting point.

    I hope this helps to some extent until the catalog cavalry arrives!


    Grant
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  • NNN636768811404910084
    Hi,

    yeah, there is something strange going on.

    The issue did appear relatively quickly after importing from LR. I simply wanted to rate files and group them to collections to push them to the web. To do so, I needed to get all the relevant pics into a collection and to do that I needed to re-import a certain part and get it automatically assigned (you know how it is: once you have a folder structure with 40 folders, and some sub-folders, clickling through each one, selecting all and then adding to the collection is quite a mess). So I ended up removing that branch from the initial import and cleaning the trash and then re-importing the entire folder from the drive while automatically adding it to a collection. So it is an initial LR import with a certain piece manually imported afterwards. THIS is when the problems started...

    I don't know what you mean with "cleaning" the LR catalog - how would I do that?

    Let's see if others reading this thread would find time to help with how to export / import edits. I can also check tutorials on this, sure to find it.

    Thank you for all the time you are putting in for me - really appreciate it and hope to be able to give back at some point...

    Cheers,
    sbv
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  • NNN636768811404910084
    I start to really dislike C1...

    Here is the latest small pain:
    I open C1, click to import, the RAWs load from the card, then C1 finishes loading and shows the last selected folder and displays the same content in the import dialog.
    Re-selecting the source folder (e.g. the card) didn't do it.
    But toggeling the "include subfolder" tick eventually solved the issue, but there seem to be some fundamental flaws in the way the app establishes context, treat's its database and processing que, and so on. This asynchronous way of working against a dataset is really, really annoying (or rather the issues it creates, as it is not clean)!
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