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Sessions: Problems when importing with subfolders?

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24 comments

  • HansB
    NN636161370466825880UL wrote:
    ...
    When importing photos to a session with subfolders : The session's capture folder doesn't show any photos (and no subfolders as well). Is this a bug or a "works as designed" feature? 😉
    ...

    This is no bug. Assuming standard settings, the 'Capture' folder is where CO stores the images captured by tethered shooting. It only shows images of the 'Capture' folder location.

    Imports go to whatever location you defined in the import dialog. If you didn't change any setting here, it should be the session folder itself.

    Try using 'System Folders' for browsing and/or create 'Session Albums' and 'Session Favorites' to organize the images.

    NN636161370466825880UL wrote:
    ...
    Additionally Capture One creates a folder structure in the original directory (Capture\<subfolders>\CaptureOne\Settings100) with one meta-file for each photo. After deleting this unwanted directory structure
    ...

    Even if you don't want this folder structure, this is the place where CO stores all adjustments in a sidecar file for each image. This is part of the session concept. Deleting the sidecars means deleting the adjustments.

    NN636161370466825880UL wrote:
    ...
    After having changed the session's location (by moving to another folder or drive) and opening the session with Capture One the session album "all images" just shows a warning sign for all images.
    ...

    Can't tell anything about it. I never import into my sessions. I'm only browsing the folders in the library, separate sessions per shooting.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    One way of handling this that you might like is instead of importing into a separate folder for each date, let Capture One import everything into the Capture folder in your session. If you want to work on just the files for a particular date, you can use the filters in the Library tool to display images from a particular date, or dates.

    Does that help?

    Or add your subfolders as session favourites, as Hans suggests.

    Ian
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    Hi Hans,

    thanks for the quick response.

    HansB wrote:

    This is no bug. Assuming standard settings, the 'Capture' folder is where CO stores the images captured by tethered shooting. It only shows images of the 'Capture' folder location.

    Imports go to whatever location you defined in the import dialog. If you didn't change any setting here, it should be the session folder itself.

    Try using 'System Folders' for browsing and/or create 'Session Albums' and 'Session Favorites' to organize the images.


    I realize I can browse system folders and I can create session albums & favorites. I' just would prefere not having to do additional steps instead of using something offered by CO 😉 BTW I didn't change any settings, Capture One defaults to "Capture Folder" when importing photos into a session.

    HansB wrote:

    Even if you don't want this folder structure, this is the place where CO stores all adjustments in a sidecar file for each image. This is part of the session concept. Deleting the sidecars means deleting the adjustments.


    I'm aware of that. But another part of the session concept is to have a self-containing directory structure that can be copied and moved to other directories and to other computers (at least the documentation states this). After moving the complete session to another directory, Capture One recreates the directory structure at the session's former location (when using subdirectory tokens). This way CO ignores the sidecars in the session's new location (where they have been moved to) and regenerated new ones at the former location. So actually a session can't be moved to another location when using subdirectory tokens at importing.

    HansB wrote:

    Can't tell anything about it. I never import into my sessions. I'm only browsing the folders in the library, separate sessions per shooting.


    I did import into the session because this was shown in the tutorials. It looks like a natural way when you have a SD card and you have to import the files to the notebook's drive and into the session library of Capture One (because it can be done in one step with CO)

    Thanks for helping me getting a better understanding of Capture One.

    Regards,
    Frank
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    Hi Ian,

    Ian3 wrote:
    One way of handling this that you might like is instead of importing into a separate folder for each date, let Capture One import everything into the Capture folder in your session. If you want to work on just the files for a particular date, you can use the filters in the Library tool to display images from a particular date, or dates.

    Does that help?

    Or add your subfolders as session favourites, as Hans suggests.

    Ian


    I hoped I could save additional steps and the subdirectories would just show up in the "Output Folder" 😊

    I'm just watching Capture One Pro 9 Webinar | Exploring Session Workflow. And actually, yes, they don't show up and it works as designed 😉

    Frank
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  • SFA
    Frank,

    For simplicity of folder structure I tend to add import folders INTO the Capture folder although if each shoot is a on time session you could just tell the import process to put all of the file into the Capture Folder just as it would do when shooting tethered.

    More recently C1 allows you to create sub-folder for the import files as you import according the EXIF and Metadata values (for example). I feel I should be using this more but so far have stayed with the "historic" approach.

    You can, of course, access any folder and work on the files there when using a session. Use the C1 Library Explorer for the purpose. If you make a folder a Favourite it will become a logical part of the session and is easily found. Give it a useful name!

    The benefit of Importing is that all of the links should be predefined for you AND you can deploy useful file naming in import (Token based) AND you can have presets and styles added during the process if you wish ... and a few other things too - like the option to split into folders dynamically.

    There is a lot there and sometimes it is worth stepping back for a moment to reconsider what one is trying to achieve and whether there are even better or more useful options.

    By the way - the "Capture Folder" you may see in the box for "Destination" in the Import tool window is not necessarily the folder in the session folder structure seen through the OS Explorer and listed as "Capture" .

    "Capture Folder" is a virtual tag that may be set to point to any folder of your choosing. (See "Set as Capture Folder" in the menu.) The same is true for the other "folders" listed under "Session Folders".

    In some circumstances - and especially if one has been experimenting a little - this can lead to some confusion I suspect. However, it is a powerful feature that, once understood and remembered, can make editing life much easier in some situations!

    Ditto the Output folder. The same concept. Somewhere to collect processed files for the session but you can send them anywhere and preset the location in the process recipe.

    HTH.

    Grant
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    SFA wrote:
    For simplicity of folder structure I tend to add import folders INTO the Capture folder although if each shoot is a on time session you could just tell the import process to put all of the file into the Capture Folder just as it would do when shooting tethered.

    [...]

    Ditto the Output folder. The same concept. Somewhere to collect processed files for the session but you can send them anywhere and preset the location in the process recipe.


    Grant,

    thank you very much for your helpful explanations. So far I tend to have all directories (capture, selects, output, trash) in the session folder. This way I will have all session files (database, sidecars, photos) in one container that I can drop or copy everywhere else. Probably I will begin this way and try experimenting other ways of organizing sooner or later.

    Working with tokens (filenames, directories) seems a very flexible way. I will explore this later.

    Sadly, importing files into capture folder's subdirectories (split folders dynamically) seems to torpedo the concept of portable sessions. I would think that paths to subdirectories would be stored relatively (as the path to the capture folder is). But after having tried several times I'm quite sure C1 stores absolute paths to the photos and to the sidecars ☹️

    Frank
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  • SFA
    Frank,

    A session, in its default form, is entirely self contained.

    If you have multiple folders containing images each of those folders will also have a Capture One folder inside that will then contain a Cache folder and a Settings folder.

    The Settings folder contains all of the edit information for the files in its parent folder.

    The Cache folder contains Previews and thumbnails for speedy on screen use but will be regenerated if "lost".

    Copying a top level folder and all subfolders means the entire session travels together and is cohesive when moved and then accessed in Capture One.

    If you move just a single Image folder and its sub-folders (outside C1) then should that folder be accessed by C1 in the future the cache and settings will also be recognised.

    Set up a small session and experiment is my suggestion - then you can work out to your own level of comfort how things can be handled.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • peter Frings
    I had similar issues in 9 when using tokens for creating sub folders on import. C1 got completely confused when trashing images: they all appeared with the dreaded question mark and there was no way I could get it fixed. It looked as if the rest of the program was not aware of this subfolders-in-the-capture-folder ability 😊. I filed a ticket and they 'got it', but I never got around to check it laterâ€"I had moved on to collections.

    Regarding your comment about relative/absolute paths, there's something that you may want to check: in the library tool, click the … and select the "show info" item. Now select the Capture Folder. The info should normally confirm that the folder is "relative to session".

    Cheers,
    Peter.
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    Grant,

    thanks for your advice. I use a session with my last hiking trip's photos to explore C1. The more I explore the more I'm thrilled to have great results with even small efforts.

    SFA wrote:
    Frank,

    A session, in its default form, is entirely self contained.

    If you have multiple folders containing images each of those folders will also have a Capture One folder inside that will then contain a Cache folder and a Settings folder.


    Unfortunately it really seems C1 doesn't correctly handle sessions with subfolders. So for now I put all photos in one folder ("Capture Folder"). This way I can easily move or copy a session between my two computers.

    I even used folder sync with Nexcloud (similar to dropbox in a private cloud). But I'm aware that working with C1 on a synced folder produces constantly syncing and this could produce conflicts when working parallel on two computers.


    Frank
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    peter.f wrote:
    Regarding your comment about relative/absolute paths, there's something that you may want to check: in the library tool, click the … and select the "show info" item. Now select the Capture Folder. The info should normally confirm that the folder is "relative to session".


    Thanks, that's great. I didn't know this.

    I created a new session and made a small session import with subfolder tokens. The capture folder itself keeps "relative" but I have to locate all subfolders in the "System Folder", and they - of course - are "absolute". So after moving a session C1 doesn't find the images.

    Thanks,

    Frank
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  • SFA
    NN636161370466825880UL wrote:
    peter.f wrote:
    Regarding your comment about relative/absolute paths, there's something that you may want to check: in the library tool, click the … and select the "show info" item. Now select the Capture Folder. The info should normally confirm that the folder is "relative to session".


    Thanks, that's great. I didn't know this.

    I created a new session and made a small session import with subfolder tokens. The capture folder itself keeps "relative" but I have to locate all subfolders in the "System Folder", and they - of course - are "absolute". So after moving a session C1 doesn't find the images.

    Thanks,

    Frank


    I don't understand this part of your process description.

    Certainly you can make the folders in some other part of your storage system if you wish and you can access any folder on the system from any "Session" but if you are creating a new session and importing the normal process would be to create the subfolders within the session folder structure (usually as folders in the Capture folder) just as one would shooting a studio session.

    That then makes everything easily portable.

    If you DO use folder outside the session structure then yes they will have fixed locations but would still be found by the session so long as the path is valid. However if you wanted to move them around outside of their related session(s) activity you would indeed likely break the links.

    However since the Cache and Settings for the images in the folder are stored in sub folders the edit work performed on the image would travel with them - unless, of course, you take steps to prevent that.Steps like deleting the sub-folders for some reason.

    Put siplpy, for any sessions that you want to manage as self contained portable "items" be sure that the images are stored in sub-folders somewhere within the session structure.

    If you have a session that has been set up differently, move the folder inside the session folder structure (preferably using the session to do so) and make them Favourites.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    SFA wrote:
    Put siplpy, for any sessions that you want to manage as self contained portable "items" be sure that the images are stored in sub-folders somewhere within the session structure.

    It was my trial to to understand what happens when I move a session (as it is supposed to be a "self containted portable item"). Sorry that I didn't clearly describe my process.

    First of all: I did not make any folder outside the session path, I created the subfolders within the session folder structure.

    I now can reproduce that sessions are note "self containted portable items" when I let C1 create subfolders within the session capture folder by using tokens:

    1. I create a C1-Session "MySession" with default settings (no folder outside the session location) in path "C:\Users\...\Pictures\C1-Sessions\" (no other files or directories there).

    2. I import photos with subfolder token "DD" (image day of month). After the import, the folder structure looks like this:


    C:\Users\...\Pictures\C1-Sessions\MySession- Capture
    -- 10
    --- CaptureOne
    ---- Cache
    ---- Settings100
    -- 11
    --- CaptureOne
    ---- Cache
    ---- Settings100
    -- 12
    --- CaptureOne
    ---- Cache
    ---- Settings100
    - Output
    - Selects
    - Trash


    Everything looks good and works good.

    3. Now I exit CaptureOne.

    4. In Windows Explorer I move the session from "C:\Users\...\Pictures\C1-Sessions\" to "C:\Users\...\Downloads\". It results to this folder structure:


    C:\Users\...\Downloads\C1-Sessions\MySession- Capture
    -- 10
    --- CaptureOne
    ---- Cache
    ---- Settings100
    -- 11
    --- CaptureOne
    ---- Cache
    ---- Settings100
    -- 12
    --- CaptureOne
    ---- Cache
    ---- Settings100
    - Output
    - Selects
    - Trash


    The directory "C:\Users\...\Pictures\C1-Sessions\" is completely empty now.

    5. I open the session in "C:\Users\...\Downloads\C1-Sessions\MySession\" with Capture One (either in Explorer or within Capture One).

    C1 opens the session. At first it looks okay in the library (e.g. "all pictures"). When opening info for the "Capture" folder in the library it shows me the path "C:\Users\...\Downloads\C1-Sessions\MySession\" and "Relative to document". In the browser, C1 lists all photos with correct filenames.

    But instead of a photo preview each photo has a warning sign. When right clicking and selecting "show in library" the path points (examplary) to "C:\Users\...\Pictures\C1-Sessions\MySession\Capture\10\". This is the session's former path but not where the session is located now (I moved all folders and files!).

    Additionally C1 has created a folder structure in the former session path (no other subfolders):


    C:\Users\...\Pictures\C1-Sessions\MySession- Capture
    -- 10
    --- CaptureOne
    -- 11
    --- CaptureOne
    -- 12
    --- CaptureOne


    6. Conclusion: I can't move the session to another directory. Especially I can't move (or copy) a session to another computer to work (or continue work) on the session .

    I hope this clarifies my process

    Frank

    Note: When importing all photos in the "Capture" (not subfolder tokens), I can move or copy the session. C1 finds all photos and all metadata.
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  • John Doe
    What happens if you click File > Regenerate Previews ?
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    John Doe wrote:
    What happens if you click File > Regenerate Previews ?

    Nothing. Previews still show warning signs.
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  • peter Frings
    Hi Grant,

    As far as I understand, the subfolders are inside the default capture folder of the session, i.e., they are indeed inside the session folder itself. So, if you copy them, you copy all files, as expected. Maybe NN636161370466825880UL can confirm (BTW, you know that you can change that name, don't you?). The problems lies in the way C1 refers to those folders/images.

    [The next is a bit of guess work, I would have to test this. Assume for now that this is how it actually works 😊 ]

    C1 has the ability to address those folders using either a relative path, either an absolute one. At least, that's what the settings in the "Info" tool suggests. I expect that relative addressing is the default for sessions, and that absolute addressing is the default for catalogs with externally referenced images.

    And maybe there's a bug in C1 that creates absolute references when you use subfolders on import, rather than keeping them relative. E.g,. it switches to absolute paths when it sees a \ in the name field (/ on mac).

    The effect of this is clear:
    Suppose you have a session where you import your images using tokens that create subfolders for year and month. C1 would normally refer to these folders and images using the relative path "captures\2016\12\". This makes the session portable.

    However, when the folder is referred to by an absolute path, even when it's inside the session folder, the path would become something like "D:\c1 sessions\my session\captures\2016\12\". It's clear that this way of referring to a folder breaks the references when you move the session.

    The reason for having an absolute path could be to have a single data store for your originals and to be able to move the session without having to copy the originals. E.g., "H:\captures\2016\12", with H: being an external disk would allow you to move the session from a laptop to a desktop computer, and then even ingest it into an archiving catalog, leaving the originals where they are. Might save some time when sessions have 1000 images from one of their 100MP beasts 😊

    Cheers,
    Peter.
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    FYI: I just filed a support case.
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    Hi Peter,

    peter.f wrote:
    As far as I understand, the subfolders are inside the default capture folder of the session, i.e., they are indeed inside the session folder itself. So, if you copy them, you copy all files, as expected. Maybe NN636161370466825880UL can confirm (BTW, you know that you can change that name, don't you?). The problems lies in the way C1 refers to those folders/images.


    Yes, all files and subfolders are within the default capture folder of the session, and I know I could change this 😊

    peter.f wrote:

    And maybe there's a bug in C1 that creates absolute references when you use subfolders on import, rather than keeping them relative. E.g,. it switches to absolute paths when it sees a \ in the name field (/ on mac).


    That's my assumption too. I suppose there is a small little bug in there that prevents referencing capture subfolders (within the session folder) relatively. Maybe it's only a Windows bug (currently I use Windows only so I don't know if this happens on Mac too).

    Frank
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  • peter Frings
    NN636161370466825880UL wrote:
    Hi Peter,


    peter.f wrote:

    And maybe there's a bug in C1 that creates absolute references when you use subfolders on import, rather than keeping them relative. E.g,. it switches to absolute paths when it sees a \ in the name field (/ on mac).


    That's my assumption too. I suppose there is a small little bug in there that prevents referencing capture subfolders (within the session folder) relatively. Maybe it's only a Windows bug (currently I use Windows only so I don't know if this happens on Mac too).

    Frank


    I just tried it on the mac and it seems to work as expected. I have created a small session, imported an image into the capture folder using subfolders year and date. Although the image is not visible in the "Capture Folder" session folder, it is shown in the "All images" album and properly located inside the Capture folder in the "System Folders" list.

    When I move the session, and open it again, all is well. All folders are relative, pointing to the right location, image viewer works fine, …

    Cheers
    Peter.
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    Hi Peter,

    peter.f wrote:
    When I move the session, and open it again, all is well. All folders are relative, pointing to the right location, image viewer works fine, …


    Thank you for testing this on a Mac. So it looks like it's specific to Windows.

    Phase One Support replied to my support case and assumed I would use a catalog. And I also could manually locate and redirect each subfolder to the correct path in the library's system folder *LOL*. I would like to reply but the form doesn't work ☹️

    Regard,
    Frank
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  • SFA
    It works well as it is in my experience although the terminology may be obscure.

    I copy sessions to dual external drives as my backup policy. If I need to I can work on those sessions on the remote drives directly.

    If I move a folder that is not embedded in the C1 session folder structure (i.e. referenced to an external location) whist inside the session the link is updated. If outside I would need to navigate through explorer to rediscover it. However so long as I moved the images AND the subfolders all the C1 edit data and previews would be ready to use.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Darren McKinstry
    Frank

    could you share a little more about the fix that was suggested to you by support (manually locating each file).. or indeed if you worked out another fix?

    I have exactly the same problem... 2 years of images all imported into sub-folders of the 'capture' folder ( ie capture/cameramodel/imageformat) and not portable (even though the parent capture folder itself is set to relative, these sub-folders a definitely being treated as absolute)

    I need to work out a way to move these to an external drive without destroying the links to the images...

    thanks

    Darren


    NN636161370466825880UL wrote:
    Hi Peter,

    peter.f wrote:
    When I move the session, and open it again, all is well. All folders are relative, pointing to the right location, image viewer works fine, …


    Thank you for testing this on a Mac. So it looks like it's specific to Windows.

    Phase One Support replied to my support case and assumed I would use a catalog. And I also could manually locate and redirect each subfolder to the correct path in the library's system folder *LOL*. I would like to reply but the form doesn't work ☹️

    Regard,
    Frank
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  • NN636161370466825880UL
    Hi Darren,

    darrenmckinstry wrote:

    Phase One Support replied to my support case and assumed I would use a catalog. And I also could manually locate and redirect each subfolder to the correct path in the library's system folder *LOL*.


    Actually there has been no fix. Manually relocating subfolders is ... I didn't even try it because it would mess up the whole thing I guess. And I don't want do use my time for such a thing.

    I could reproduce this error on different Windows PCs, even after new installation (formatted drive, reinstalled Windows 10, installed Capture One 10, reproduced errors when importing photos into session subfolders).

    Support finally told me he would forward it to technicians. Nothing happened since then. So I just use sessions without subfolders (never tried since then, maybe 10.1. did fix it.)

    Regards,
    Frank
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  • Jason Fordham
    Hi! Somehow my file path changed from RELATIVE to ABSOLUTE (ABSOLUTE was grayed out I couldn't change it) - the result is that all the photos had " ?" with "image not found...etc." message.

    I'D TRY THIS FIRST:
    -go the drive where your photos are stored and re-do the permissions to allow access to all sub folder (see help image)

    THIS IS WHAT I ENDED UP DOING:
    I restructured "MY.cocatalog" file (that wasn't bringing up all my previous edited work) with my back-up adjustments.
    -go to your original .cocatalog file (it's probably large in GB size)
    -RIGHT CLICK
    --GET INFO
    ---SHOW PACKAGE CONTENTS (your see all the folders inside)

    -Then open a NEW WINDOW and navigate your back "Capture_Backup."
    --COPY the "ADJUSTMENTS" folder (if they are the latest adjustments) and the ".cocatalogdb" file from the backup

    -Then replace the "package contents" of your original .cocatalog file with the backup files
    --Move your .cocatalog somewhere else on your drive for now
    -I then installed up new version of Capture and opened "MY.cocatalog," - everything worked fine - BUT I HAD TO GENERATE NEW PREVIEWS - but ALL ADJUSTMENT WERE THERE FROM THE BACK-UP, AND IT SAW THE IMAGES FROM THE "ORIGINAL" folder where RAW (.CR2) FILES LIVE INSIDE OF THE "PACKAGE CONTENT"

    HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE - I'VE ATTACHED SOME SCREENSHOTS

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mq33sovx0ory56w/AACttkY3dCaU1oeOc1KwCqQQa?dl=0
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  • OddS.
    NN636161370466825880UL wrote:

    ...
    6. Conclusion: I can't move the session to another directory.


    You can't, obviously.

    I know it does not help much, but I can. I am currently on Windows 10 with Capture One v 10.1.2, and I can not really remember problems with moving a session folder. Chances are that I do not fully grasp what you do. Perhaps the following step by step procedure that works for me, may add more confusion to the mix 😊

    My G:\Arkiv\2017 folder holds 7 sessions, the most current session folder in or under G:\Arkiv\2017\ is "2017-06" which is also the name of the current session.

    Inside or under the session folder G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06 there are 4 folders and one file, the folders are Capture, Output, Selects and Trash. The file is 2017-06.cosessiondb

    Inside or under the G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06\Capture folder I have multiple image folders. Each image folder contains raw files (some .NEF some .DNG) and one folder named "CaptureOne" holding Cache and Settings subfolders.

    With Capture One closed (not running) I used an ordinary file tool to do the following:

    A) copy the session folder G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06 to G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06-COPY (I copied everything, including raw files)

    B) renamed the file G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06-COPY\2017-06.cosessiondb to
    G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06-COPY\2017-06-COPY.cosessiondb
    just to prevent me confusing two sessions just because they happen to have the same name in Capture One

    C) started Capture One, clicked File -> Open, navigated to G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06-COPY and double clicked the file
    2017-06-COPY.cosessiondb

    The session 2017-06-COPY opens and as far as I can tell the session 2017-06-COPY is indeed a copy of the session 2017-06.

    I then closed Capture One and used my disk tool to move the session folder 2017-06-COPY from under G:\Arkiv\2017\ to a temporary folder C:\tmp
    I now had the near future session folder C:\tmp\2017-06-COPY with the same content as before I started, thus
    the content of folder C:\tmp\2017-06-COPY was a copy of the content in folder G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06\, but now on a different disk drive (C: as opposed to G:). The folder G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06-COPY no longer existed.

    This time I did not rename the cosessiondb-file, I would hopefully not confuse a session named "2017-06-COPY" with the original session "2017-06" in Capture One.

    Started Capture One, clicked File -> Open, navigated to C:\tmp\2017-06-COPY and double clicked the file
    2017-06-COPY.cosessiondb. I was not at all surprised that it worked, again. I am not able to tell the two sessions
    C:\tmp\2017-06-COPY and G:\Arkiv\2017\2017-06 apart.
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