Base characteristics -- Curve
I've been using C1 now for a few months on photographs take with various Fujifilm cameras.
(I assume this question applies to all cameras and not just Fuji.) I am very happy with the results and have basically stopped using my previous s/w.
I shoot only in RAW, though I use different "film simulations" for different reasons, usually unrelated to what I will fo for the final image. For example I use B&W a lot, not because I [necessarily] want to produce B&W (though very often I do) but because it gives me a better idea of tone and contrast in the DVF (that's my thing). I have always thought, that since I want to always work from RAW, it shouldn't matter which simulation I choose, because these simulations (and many other in-camera settings) apply to only JPG images and not RAW. (After all RAW is the raw data of sensor.)
However, when I bring my RAW file into C1, it seems to be always, from C1 not the camera, be using a simulation the same as what was selected in the camera.
What should I be setting to get the RAW image without any correction from C1 before I start my thing? (Is it "Linear Response"?)
When I want to produce a B&W final image, I prefer C1 to do the conversion from the RAW rather than the camera, because C1 allows me to control how each colour is rendered in my B&W image. The camera has its own algorithm which usually does not emphasise what I want. So even if the camera produces a B&W, I want to "re-monochrome" it to my needs, which will vary from photograph to photograph. So I want the 'real RAW!
Am I missing something here?
Thanks
Menachem
PS I'm using a Mac but I doubt that makes a difference to the way C1 handles this.
(I assume this question applies to all cameras and not just Fuji.) I am very happy with the results and have basically stopped using my previous s/w.
I shoot only in RAW, though I use different "film simulations" for different reasons, usually unrelated to what I will fo for the final image. For example I use B&W a lot, not because I [necessarily] want to produce B&W (though very often I do) but because it gives me a better idea of tone and contrast in the DVF (that's my thing). I have always thought, that since I want to always work from RAW, it shouldn't matter which simulation I choose, because these simulations (and many other in-camera settings) apply to only JPG images and not RAW. (After all RAW is the raw data of sensor.)
However, when I bring my RAW file into C1, it seems to be always, from C1 not the camera, be using a simulation the same as what was selected in the camera.
What should I be setting to get the RAW image without any correction from C1 before I start my thing? (Is it "Linear Response"?)
When I want to produce a B&W final image, I prefer C1 to do the conversion from the RAW rather than the camera, because C1 allows me to control how each colour is rendered in my B&W image. The camera has its own algorithm which usually does not emphasise what I want. So even if the camera produces a B&W, I want to "re-monochrome" it to my needs, which will vary from photograph to photograph. So I want the 'real RAW!
Am I missing something here?
Thanks
Menachem
PS I'm using a Mac but I doubt that makes a difference to the way C1 handles this.
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This is a Fuji-only issue. Because of the way that Fuji film simulations* are provided for in the Base Characteristics tool in Capture One, it applies the curve corresponding to the one that was selected in camera. Presumably the assumption is that that is what you wanted, if you selected it in camera. You can change it. So you could select Linear Response if you wanted, though you may find that one of the other curves would give you a better starting point - Film Standard is what it defaults to for most cameras. (It depends on what you like best - in theory you could get to the same final look starting from Linear Response or from Film Standard, but the easiest thing is to start from the one that is closest to your preferred look.)
If you want Capture One to ignore the Fuji film simulation used in camera, you can do that I think. In the Base Characteristics tool, set it to the option you would like on one photo. Then click the ... next to the title of the Base Characteristics tool, and select Save as Defaults for [your camera model]. That would only affect new imports, not existing images.
Ian
*Edited to add: this feature is only available for Fuji cameras.0 -
Thanks Ian. Ian3 wrote:
Presumably the assumption is that that is what you wanted, if you selected it in camera.
I guess that I have just shown it is an incorrect assumption unless what I am doing is unique. But it really makes the digital VF much more usable.
Plus why would you want the camera set the B&W when C1 gives you much more options?
Is someone from FujiLand listening in?You can change it.
Yes, thanks. I think I will. I assume that I can still override it if I want to later, say finding something that gives me a better starting point.So you could select Linear Response if you wanted, though you may find that one of the other curves would give you a better starting point - Film Standard is what it defaults to for most cameras. (It depends on what you like best - in theory you could get to the same final look starting from Linear Response or from Film Standard, but the easiest thing is to start from the one that is closest to your preferred look.)
Yes I agree. Sometimes I may indeed get a better "starting point" from a different simulation; however I should always be able to end up with the same result if know how to use C1 effectively. Selected the best starting point may or not give a faster result.If you want Capture One to ignore the Fuji film simulation used in camera, you can do that I think. In the Base Characteristics tool, set it to the option you would like on one photo. Then click the ... next to the title of the Base Characteristics tool, and select Save as Defaults for [your camera model]. That would only affect new imports, not existing images.
Yes I understand that now. But there is no way to get C1 to do nothing and give 'pure' RAW, in other words just what the sensor recorded, which I agree is often mud.
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So in summary are you saying that "Film Standard" is the closest thing to real RAW? It and "Linear Response" are the only non-film simulations (plus high contrast and extra shadow which are both things I can apply specifically if I need them) on the list?
I often question why, now many years after film almost disappeared, and most of the films on the list are not available, what is the fetish with trying to simulate/reproduce film.
Thanks again Ian for your assistance here.
PS Btw what exactly is "Linear Response"?0 -
NNN636364181394546668 wrote:
PS Btw what exactly is "Linear Response"?
Linear Response is pretty much what you asked form earlier. The absolute minimum manipulation of the incoming RAW data. Just enough to make it look like an identifiable image on which to start your enhancements.
Try it and you will see.
There are a number of threads in the forum about using it as a starting point and some references throughout the C1 Support infrastructure offering as well.
HTH.
Grant0 -
Thanks Grant.
Will have a look.0 -
NNN636364181394546668 wrote:
I assume that I can still override it if I want to later, say finding something that gives me a better starting point.
You certainly can. That is the beauty of software working non-destructively. At any time you could change the base characteristics for an image. Or you could make a new variant of it (a sort of virtual copy) and apply different base characteristics to that so that you can compare
Ian0
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