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From local session to NAS based catalog? Newbie question

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8 comments

  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    You can certainly import the Selects folder into a catalog - I always work like that. There's more than one way, but here's one:

    - Close the session and open the catalog

    - Go to Import tool (click the button on the toolbar, or go File>Import Images)

    - In the Import From section at the top left of the import dialog box click the Source drop down menu and use Choose folder to find the Selects folder, and click Open. (DON'T click Import all yet!)

    - In the Import To section use the Destination Drop-down menu to select Current Location

    - VERY IMPORTANT: in the Adjustments section of the dialog box, make sure that Include Existing Adjustments is checked.

    - Now you can click Import All.

    The result of this is that the Selects folder and the images in it will be added to the catalog database. The folder will not be moved or renamed (you can do that in a moment if you want). The raw files will stay where they are. Information about your edits etc will be added to the catalog database, and previews of your images will be generated and stored in the catalog.

    Allow Capture One to finish generating previews, etc, once you have done this.

    If you want to rename the folder and move it after that.

    - rename it from within the Capture One Library tool - right click and choose rename. So perhaps you might change Selects to 2019 Trip to Madrid, or whatever. (Note - do this in the Folders section in the Library tool; don't confuse that with Recent Imports). The folder will be renamed on disc too by Capture One.

    - you can move the folder by dragging and dropping from within the Library tool to the destination folder.* Capture One should move the folder on disc for you, and it will keep track of where it now is.

    * The first time, the Folder to which you are moving things will have to be added to the catalog first. Click the + in the Folders section, navigate to the folder, and add it.

    Pitfalls/why this might be suboptimal: some users report problems with running Capture One using an NAS. I haven't tried it. But I do import folders and move them as described to an external (USB-connected) hard drive.

    I suggest you do a test run with a small folder and a handful of images to check that you are happy with the process. It is much quicker and easier than the step-by-step description sounds!

    And make sure you have backed everything up first!

    Ian
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Good story Ian, but why not set the Import To location to the location on the NAS? Capture One does the copying and the OP is all clear and done?

    Alternatively, the OP can copy or move the Selects folder to the NAS first before anything else, optionally rename it, and then import into the catalog with Import To > Current Location setting.

    I ask this because if possible I like to prevent moving already imported images due to the strain it puts on the catalog database system.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    Good story Ian, but why not set the Import To location to the location on the NAS? Capture One does the copying and the OP is all clear and done?

    Alternatively, the OP can copy or move the Selects folder to the NAS first before anything else, optionally rename it, and then import into the catalog with Import To > Current Location setting.

    I ask this because if possible I like to prevent moving already imported images due to the strain it puts on the catalog database system.

    OK - understood. I was a bit uncertain about the use of NAS. I know that there have been posts in the forum in the past with users having difficulties using NAS, and I thought i remembered that Capture One / Phase One advised against it. But perhaps that is no longer true.

    Ian
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  • SFA
    Ian3 wrote:
    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    Good story Ian, but why not set the Import To location to the location on the NAS? Capture One does the copying and the OP is all clear and done?

    Alternatively, the OP can copy or move the Selects folder to the NAS first before anything else, optionally rename it, and then import into the catalog with Import To > Current Location setting.

    I ask this because if possible I like to prevent moving already imported images due to the strain it puts on the catalog database system.

    OK - understood. I was a bit uncertain about the use of NAS. I know that there have been posts in the forum in the past with users having difficulties using NAS, and I thought i remembered that Capture One / Phase One advised against it. But perhaps that is no longer true.

    Ian


    NAS use adds another factor to performance issues - actually a number of factors - that are outside Capture One's control but generally unlikely to improve performance. But of course 'performance' and its acceptability are somewhat personal assessments.

    Amongst the factors are the NAS technology, the way it has been configured, what tasks it is performing, what disks have been installed, the real working speed of any network connectivity option used, etc, etc.

    I bought a fairly commonly used 2 bay NAS 2 years ago and installed 2 8GB NAS oriented drives albeit only 5400rpm on the basis that 7200rpm drives were more expensive and, for the mainly back up purpose of a NAS probably were not adding much benefit.

    The internal processor is a 2 Core Celeron.

    The claimed transfer read and write speeds are fine for typical NAS type application but not the fastest available if instant performance with large files is required. Even USB3 connection for just copying files when I was first loading the disks did not seem to be as fast is it might possibly be.

    One could install high speed "server" oriented disks but they mostly come with low capacity and high price and are difficult to justify outside enterprise level budgets and access requirements.

    My connection to the NAS is, for various reasons of convenience, via Wi-Fi which normally has decent speed - as much as I can achieve via a direct USB3 connection to the NAS for practical purposes. Working with a session on the NAS is not as fast as working with it on local SSDs, even an SSD on a slower eSATA port, but is adequate when access to a few files from an archived session is necessary. In fact once the session has loaded into memory handling image by image editing seems fine.

    I would guess that moving up the NAS market scale one could configure a faster device and a faster network to support it if one had a need dedicated to high volume large file image processing but the costs could be significant.

    Some of the ECO settings on a NAS can be quite 'aggressive' in terms of power saving and, for example, moving into some sort of partial hibernation state. Because my NAS is next to me in my work area I can hear what it is doing and tell when it is "awakening" for any demands I have just placed upon it. If you are not able to hear that interactivity it might just seem slow for no obvious reason.

    A NAS will usually offer a lot of additional facilities. If deployed these may also place significant demand, permanently or intermittently, on the NAS processing and data handling capabilities in ways not usually experienced with a desktop or laptop device. Also affecting perceived performance.

    All in all we cannot just say "NAS is slow" but we could reasonably assume that there are some aspects of a NAS and it usual purpose that might not be automatically set up for maximum performance as we would like it to be for our photo editing preferences. That aplies to both the NAS and the way it interacts with our editing device.


    Just my observations of course. YMMV.

    Grant
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  • Jan-Peter Onstwedder
    Based on my experience with a mid-spec Synology NAS, connected via Gigabit ethernet, I would suggest that:

    - you import the images into a catalog and use the option to copy to a folder on the NAS. As Paul S points out, it's much faster and more robust than moving files and folders inside C1 once they've been imported. As a warning, the copy to the NAS is not fast...

    - keep your catalogs on local storage. If you anticipate using multiple computers, I'd store the catalogs on a fast external drive like an SSD one.

    Loading a catalog is never really fast, but the previews are stored in the catalog I think so having those stored locally means you only get a small delay when C1 has to load the full resolution image from the NAS, and for a single file that's perfectly acceptable in my experience.

    And the security of a NAS is well worth having, he said, after multiple hard disk failures in the past twenty years...

    Jan-Peter
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  • TomUsernameNotAvailable
    Thank you guys! Thats interesting to read and test. Glad to hear that this seems totally feasible. So I will experiment with the settings.

    The NAS performance impact is actually what made me hesitant to go down that route. Having the first set of pictures in the session on my MBP gives me full performance.

    But then I could copy them to the NAS and the import them into the catalog.

    Ian3 wrote:
    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    Good story Ian, but why not set the Import To location to the location on the NAS? Capture One does the copying and the OP is all clear and done?

    Alternatively, the OP can copy or move the Selects folder to the NAS first before anything else, optionally rename it, and then import into the catalog with Import To > Current Location setting.

    I ask this because if possible I like to prevent moving already imported images due to the strain it puts on the catalog database system.

    OK - understood. I was a bit uncertain about the use of NAS. I know that there have been posts in the forum in the past with users having difficulties using NAS, and I thought i remembered that Capture One / Phase One advised against it. But perhaps that is no longer true.

    Ian
    0
  • Paul Steunebrink
    Although most is already said here, some minor additions.

    The performance of the NAS is not critical when you have the catalog itself on your local drive, as already suggested. This is because the files on the NAS are only accessed when processing, printing and zooming in.

    Putting your catalog on the NAS not only makes it slow, you risk corrupting your catalog database due to latency that is inherent to network storage in contrast to local and direct connected storage like USB drive. The SQLite database in your catalog is not built to handle network latency.

    And before people respond, saying it works fine on their NAS: yes, I know, but it is not a best practise and I experienced it first hand.
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  • TomUsernameNotAvailable
    Thank you Paul.

    This is also something I assumed. I have the catalog on my local SSD. My topic was probably not very descriptive, sorry for any confusion.

    That is why I assumed browsing would be performing much better. The local previews are also rendered. Strange.



    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    Although most is already said here, some minor additions.

    The performance of the NAS is not critical when you have the catalog itself on your local drive, as already suggested. This is because the files on the NAS are only accessed when processing, printing and zooming in.

    Putting your catalog on the NAS not only makes it slow, you risk corrupting your catalog database due to latency that is inherent to network storage in contrast to local and direct connected storage like USB drive. The SQLite database in your catalog is not built to handle network latency.

    And before people respond, saying it works fine on their NAS: yes, I know, but it is not a best practise and I experienced it first hand.
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