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Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

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43 comments

  • Paul Steunebrink
    Have you enabled "Edit all selected variants"?
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  • Amir Weiss
    it is definitely marked. does it works for you on the new version ?
    CO 20 Pro - 13.0.0.186 (97396976)
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    NNN637064106948514630 wrote:
    it is definitely marked. does it works for you on the new version ?
    CO 20 Pro - 13.0.0.186 (97396976)

    Yes, no problem here.
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  • SFA
    Open the Adjustments Clipboard Tool.

    Go to the image you wish to copy FROM and select it.

    Click on the Copy button in the tool.

    What do you see?
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  • Amir Weiss
    SFA wrote:
    Open the Adjustments Clipboard Tool.

    Go to the image you wish to copy FROM and select it.

    Click on the Copy button in the tool.

    What do you see?


    I see all i want to copy marked but it still doesnt transfer all the adjustments. i have a feeling the transition from 12 to 20 created issues in the preferences. its a few tools even if they are marked they dont transfer the information. i still have the CO 12 file and there everything works fine.
    Will try to find a way to reset it and restore some preferences i kept
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  • Amir Weiss
    I found the reason. My user styles from CO 12 i use to apply on my images creates an issue. i wonder if CO can find a way to convert the user styles so i dont need to recreate all the details i perfected so long in my old user styles.

    anyone else has this issue ?
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  • SFA
    Transformational Eye wrote:
    I found the reason. My user styles from CO 12 i use to apply on my images creates an issue. i wonder if CO can find a way to convert the user styles so i dont need to recreate all the details i perfected so long in my old user styles.

    anyone else has this issue ?


    I would guess it will only affect some of the tools in some of the styles.

    That said if you were using the HDR tool or Noise Reduction, both of which we know have changed, there might be a reason to think some detail might not be entirely compatible but nothing comes to mind for sharpening tool changes.

    So, to check understanding, you copy to clipboard, the Clipboard shows that the is an active change to apply for sharpening and then when you apply the clipboard contents nothing happens?

    What if you copy the values directly from the Sharpen tool?

    Also, are you viewing through Output Proofing facilities? If so, what settings does your active Proofing recipe have for Output Sharpening?


    Grant
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  • Amir Weiss
    SFA wrote:
    Transformational Eye wrote:
    I found the reason. My user styles from CO 12 i use to apply on my images creates an issue. i wonder if CO can find a way to convert the user styles so i dont need to recreate all the details i perfected so long in my old user styles.

    anyone else has this issue ?


    I would guess it will only affect some of the tools in some of the styles.

    That said if you were using the HDR tool or Noise Reduction, both of which we know have changed, there might be a reason to think some detail might not be entirely compatible but nothing comes to mind for sharpening tool changes.

    So, to check understanding, you copy to clipboard, the Clipboard shows that the is an active change to apply for sharpening and then when you apply the clipboard contents nothing happens?

    What if you copy the values directly from the Sharpen tool?

    Also, are you viewing through Output Proofing facilities? If so, what settings does your active Proofing recipe have for Output Sharpening?


    Grant



    Ok ill clarify it more. After a few tests i see it's not only the sharpening, its a lot of tools, im sure some stuff changed but now i cant find what does work with the pasting. iv noticed kelvin levels and others dont work as well.
    A style iv chosen is marked and i set it up on multiple photos, if i try to change values on one of the image and then copy and paste it on others, they just dont get effected. when i remove the style and modify manually the copying works. now i have like 20 adjustments, it doesnt make sense to recreate them all.

    i wonder if anyone who worked in 12 and have styles can confirm the old styles still work on 20 ? is it a bug or somehow just on my laptop ...
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  • SFA
    Transformational Eye wrote:
    SFA wrote:
    Transformational Eye wrote:
    I found the reason. My user styles from CO 12 i use to apply on my images creates an issue. i wonder if CO can find a way to convert the user styles so i dont need to recreate all the details i perfected so long in my old user styles.

    anyone else has this issue ?


    I would guess it will only affect some of the tools in some of the styles.

    That said if you were using the HDR tool or Noise Reduction, both of which we know have changed, there might be a reason to think some detail might not be entirely compatible but nothing comes to mind for sharpening tool changes.

    So, to check understanding, you copy to clipboard, the Clipboard shows that the is an active change to apply for sharpening and then when you apply the clipboard contents nothing happens?

    What if you copy the values directly from the Sharpen tool?

    Also, are you viewing through Output Proofing facilities? If so, what settings does your active Proofing recipe have for Output Sharpening?


    Grant



    Ok ill clarify it more. After a few tests i see it's not only the sharpening, its a lot of tools, im sure some stuff changed but now i cant find what does work with the pasting. iv noticed kelvin levels and others dont work as well.
    A style iv chosen is marked and i set it up on multiple photos, if i try to change values on one of the image and then copy and paste it on others, they just dont get effected. when i remove the style and modify manually the copying works. now i have like 20 adjustments, it doesnt make sense to recreate them all.

    i wonder if anyone who worked in 12 and have styles can confirm the old styles still work on 20 ? is it a bug or somehow just on my laptop ...


    I suspect you have a problem local to your laptop.

    Close C1 and try a couple of reboots without opening C1 in between?

    That should, hopefully, clear out any random temporary files.

    Are you by any chance working with more than one session/catalogue open concurrently?
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  • FirstName LastName
    I have the same problem.
    1.- Select a Picture with exposure parameters , HDR values, etc modified
    2.- Press copy button (Arrow pointing Right-Top )
    3.- Open the Adjustments Clipboard Tool and test all Exposure, HDR parameters, etc are checked
    4.- Select destination pictures
    5.- Press Paste button (Arrow pointing left-down )

    Some values are pasted an others no:
    - Copy :curves, crop, composition, White balance
    - Not copy: Exposure, HDR, maybe others I have no noticed.

    The copy is working well when I copy Individual tools: Exposure, HDR, Curves.

    So is a problem when only when using Clipboard Too but ONLY USING OLD CATALOGS.
    I have one catalog created for trials and the copy-paste is working well.
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  • SFA
    NN245802UL wrote:

    - Not copy: Exposure, HDR, maybe others I have no noticed.

    The copy is working well when I copy Individual tools: Exposure, HDR, Curves.

    So is a problem when only when using Clipboard Too but ONLY USING OLD CATALOGS.
    I have one catalog created for trials and the copy-paste is working well.


    When you say "Using Old Catalogues" is it safe to assume that the catalogue files must have been updated for them to be open in V20 but you have not run a batch update of the Processing Engine for the files i the catalogue?

    I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT YOU SHOULD DO THAT BEFORE READING FURTHER.

    If the images are still set to us an older processing engine some of the new features may not work as expected because the old engine will not know about them. You may want to check for this effect.

    Easy test it to create a NEW variant for an Image (A New variant will use the New engine. A cloned variant would keep the old engine.)

    Then copy and paste the settings from the original variant (V12 processing engine?) to the new variant to see what happens.

    The original variant should have settings that that will work with the new processing engine although possible with slightly different results - but that is not what the test is about. Here we are just try to establish whether things are copying at all.

    If that works, create another NEW variant, Make some edited changes using the tools that appear not to be working. This will be V20 edits made with the V20 engine.

    Creat yet another new variant and cut and copy the edits just made to the previous new variant to the latest new variant. They should work completely and be identical.

    Once we know what happens in those situations we may be able to work out what is going on.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • FirstName LastName
    All mys catalogs are converted to 20 and converted all pictures to Engine 20.
    Tried a clon for the origin pictures an withe the target, and the same result.
    Some parameters are copied, some othets no.
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  • SFA
    Time to create a Support Case.

    I think we have gone about as far as we can attempting diagnostics through the forum.

    Perhaps someone else has seen the problem and worked out what causes it?

    Is it Mac only?


    Grant
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  • nvdg
    I have the same problem. Just updated to Capture One 20 from Capture One 11. I've upgraded the engine to 20 on my images.

    I've been trying to find what causes this, copying and pasting adjustments in all different kinds of ways, with and without first applying styles. And these are just simple contrast and brightness adjustments. The results are really random. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes it doesn't apply adjustments. And sometimes it even applies adjustments that were copied earlier (so not the last copied adjustments). ๐Ÿค“

    Been using Capture One for years and I've never had this problem. Something weird is definitely going on...

    Any ideas?
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Tip: perform verification on your catalogs. You find the command in the File menu.
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  • FirstName LastName
    I have checked my catalogs and all are OK (that said the C1).

    One more clue:
    When I import new Pictures, I have preselected a user Style for all of them.
    If the copy from a variant-source to a variant-target and that variant-tyarget already have a user style, if I delete in the variant-target the user style (before paste) and then paste, all woks well.
    So I thing the problem is a fight amont values of the parameters in the variant-target, styles in that variant and values and styles from parameters of the variant-source
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    You could investigate that particular style or make renew the style. With renewing the style I mean that you save the style again with CO20.
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  • FirstName LastName
    Done.
    The problem continue.
    The only way that work for me is: deleting the style from the variant and put then again (no mater if the user style is saved in old version or new version )
    The other way (more drastically) y over variant-target (one o several ) reseting to origin: Adjustments -> Reset or press Cmd/Ctrl+R
    I will try if new import pictures with the new version of user style ade with CO20 work well or is a general problem of incompatible order when the program (CO20) set parameters when copy and paste.
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  • nvdg
    I tried making a completely new style in CO 20, but the problem persists.

    The only way I can be 100% sure all adjustments get applied is if I apply them to a "clean" image, meaning an image that hasn't had any adjustments made to it. Let's say I have two images ("image1" and "image2") and I apply the same style to both images. If I then make some adjustments to "image1" and try to copy those over to "image2" nothing happens. Or weird stuff happens. I just dragged the Exposure, Contrast, Brightness and Saturation sliders of "image1" all the way to the left (so they're at -4, -50, -50 and -100 respectively). I then copied those adjustments and tried to apply them to "image2". Only the Exposure and Saturation gets changed. Contrast and Brightness don't change. ๐Ÿ˜•

    It's so random. Isn't there something I can do? Delete preferences or something? Or should I backup my catalog and styles and reinstall CO 20?
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  • Mark VanderSys
    I'm having the same issue on a Mac. UNLIKE others, I have the problem even on new sessions created in 20.0.1 with new images (nothing coming over from 12).

    I can copy and apply changes ONE time and then it breaks. Constantly! New session, new images, tweak adjustments on one image (all the usual - exposure, saturation, curves, highlight/shadow), copy those and apply them to all the images. Works - the FIRST time. Then decide I want to make a few more adjustments. Make the adjustments on one image, copy and select all the images (as before) and try to apply - NO go. Nothing happens.
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  • Mark VanderSys
    Just curious Mac users with this issue, what model Mac are you using? Older???

    I've been nursing along my Mac Pro 2009 (waiting for the finally released replacement) with upgraded firmware (4,1 to 5,1 to allow upgrading OS) and processor. Here are the specs...

    Processor: 2 x 3.33 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
    Memory: 128 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
    Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 7950 3072 MB
    OS: High Sierra 10.13.6

    Is my (our??) older/modified machine(s) enough of a corner case that these issues won't have a solution? Does the age/build/OS version even matter?

    On a side note, pretty amazing I've used this machine over ten years!!! Hopefully I'll be able to do the same with the new Mac Pro. Knowing I could would definitely take the sting out of the custom build pricing for a new one.
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  • nvdg
    I'm experiencing the exact same thing. Applying adjustments only works to an image that hasn't had any prior adjustments done to it. If I try to apply adjustments to an image that already has had some adjustments done to it, it doesn't work. Or some things get copied over but some don't.

    Here are my machine specs:

    MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
    Processor: 2.5 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
    Memory: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
    Graphics: Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB
    OS: Catalina 10.15.1

    Don't think it's related to the system though. Couldn't it have something to do with old preferences or settings from my previous version on C1 (C1 11) interfering with C1 20?
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  • SFA
    Do these odd situations only occur when a style is involved? (Or maybe also one or more presets?)

    If so are the settings in the "copy from " file for the adjustment values set by the style still the same as the setting saved in the style? Or have they been further changed?

    If the "Copy to" file already has a style applied should the "Copy From" file values (if different to the style values) be applied or not? (If they are not different then nothing would change anyway for that tool and adjustment combination.)



    Grant
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  • SFA
    SFA wrote:
    Do these odd situations only occur when a style is involved? (Or maybe also one or more presets?)

    If so are the settings in the "copy from " file for the adjustment values set by the style still the same as the setting saved in the style? Or have they been further changed?

    If the "Copy to" file already has a style applied should the "Copy From" file values (if different to the style values) be applied or not? (If they are not different then nothing would change anyway for that tool and adjustment combination.)



    Grant


    Just in case the question above seems to lead to some sort of relevance I thought it might be useful to link to the Help information for the Styles tool.

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002619858-Copying-Styles-between-images

    I don't often use styles (other than for pre-loading some metadata at import which is done for every image) so the particular quirks of copy styles between images are not things that are second nature to me. Maybe they are to someone else who is willing to share their experience.


    Grant
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  • nvdg
    It does seem to have something to do with styles. Here are two situations that I just tested a bunch of times:

    Situation 1 (no styles)
    - Image 1: I drag all the Exposure, White Balance and High Dynamic Range sliders to the LEFT
    - Image 2: I drag all the Exposure, White Balance and High Dynamic Range sliders to the RIGHT
    - I copy the adjustments from Image 1 and apply them to Image 2. All changes are applied. No problem.

    Situation 2 (with style)
    - I apply Style 1 to Image 1 and Image 2. The Exposure settings in Style 1 are: Exposure 0, Contrast 8, Brightness -7, Saturation 0. Right now both images have the same adjustments.
    - I go back to Image 1 and drag the Exposure sliders to the left, so Exposure -4, Contrast -50, Brightness -50, Saturation -100. I then copy those Exposure adjustments from Image 1 (they are all checked in the Adjustments Clipboard) and I apply them to Image 2. Only Exposure changes to -4 and Saturation changes to -100. Contrast and Brightness don't change and stay at 8 and -7.

    So it seems that when a style is involved, adjustments don't get applied to values that have already been adjusted by the style. This seems very strange behavior and I've never had this happen in CO 11. Is there a new setting somewhere that I have missed?
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  • SFA
    nvdg wrote:
    It does seem to have something to do with styles. Here are two situations that I just tested a bunch of times:

    ....

    So it seems that when a style is involved, adjustments don't get applied to values that have already been adjusted by the style. This seems very strange behavior and I've never had this happen in CO 11. Is there a new setting somewhere that I have missed?


    Is it the other way around?

    You have a Style that has 4 values available in a tool of which the style sets non-zero values for 2 options.

    You apply the style to an image and then modify its parameters for all 4 values.

    Is it still the Style that was defined? None of the 4 values for that tool now relate to the style's values.

    Copy the new values for that tool to the Clipboard and, if you are selecting based on Adjusted Values being Automatically ticked for use, all 4 values will be ticked. Adjusted values mean, for the purpose of this discussion, any tool value that is not as the default setting.

    Now it is also worth looking at the list of Prefixes and Styles applied to the image from which the adjustments are being copied. You will need the Styles and Presets tool and the Clipboard open to have the most complete view of the adjustment under the hood.

    If you are copying the Style or Preset its values will be applied to the image to which you are copying UNLESS the values have been modified in your "Copy From" image. If they have the Preset or Style name shown in the Styles and Presets tool will have an indicator alongside. "Adjusted" and, maybe "Overridden". Hover your mouse over the name and the information becomes available.

    So to take your example you have a tool with 4 values. In the Preset or Style applied two of the values are adjusted from the default (in this case the default in V20 is zero for all sliders in the tool). These two adjusted values now represent the specifically adjusted values that make up the "Style". The zero values for the other 2 values indicates "no specific setting" therefore are not part of the Style Adjustments since the they tell us nothing about the final value of that parameter after editing.

    You now change all 4 values. So none of the values are valid for the Style - in effect the Style no longer exists for that variant of the image. HOWEVER it is still in the list of things to be copied to the Clipboard and applied during the "paste" activity. In effect the choices in the clipboard control what is an what is not copied and the style settings where there are any, will be applied in an attempt to deliver that style as defined. If the style has no instructions about some of the values then the assumption would be that they have no specific influence on the effect the style delivers so take whatever value does exist in the clipboard.

    So in your example you have no Style specified values for Exposure and Saturation in the Style and those values are ticked to be transferred in the Clipboard so they are used.

    On the other hand the Style specifies values for Contrast and Brightness and those values take precedence over any pre-existing settings since they are part of the style definition. If they did not take precedence applying a style could become a very convoluted process.

    That said things could get very complex if using multiple styles and presets where more than one of them made adjustment related to the same tool values.

    Ultimate control lies in which fields are ticked in the Clipboard and whether styles are copied, applied and then retained.

    I could see this subject area and the levels of decision making complexity that it might involve being an interesting subject for a Tutorial of some sort.

    My instinct is to lean more and more towards keeping things as simple as possible!

    If it seems to be an area of functionality that one's workflow cannot easily avoid then take a chunk of time to experiment with it and become fully familiarised with all of the aspects and logical decisions that need to be made deciding which edits need to be retained and which changed for one's purposes.

    If there are specific rule sets that it may be possible to define and apply repeatedly there may be a basis for having some sort of "recipe" type controls to deliver them. It might be an interesting challenge to work out what would need to be considered for such an approach.

    Just my observations.

    Does this go some way towards explaining what people are experiencing?


    Grant
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  • FirstName LastName
    any advance in that problem?
    This is a big problem to me because I copy form one variant to another all the time.
    An i think the problem is clear:
    When you have a variant that have parameters changed by a Syle, the future pastes over that parameters of thar variant is ignored.
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  • SFA
    NN245802UL wrote:
    any advance in that problem?
    This is a big problem to me because I copy form one variant to another all the time.
    An i think the problem is clear:
    When you have a variant that have parameters changed by a Syle, the future pastes over that parameters of thar variant is ignored.


    Remove the Style if you wish to retain the adjustments.

    Keep the style if you wish the style settings to be the final adjustment.

    And;

    Manage which values are applied using the tic boxes for the Adjustments Clipboard.
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  • FirstName LastName
    Well this is not a solution at all.
    When importing I put a Sytle with the parameters at a starting point.
    Then I make the adjustements individual for every variant (some time copying from another if in the same serie,
    Then I appply styles by creating a new layer with a style.
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  • SFA
    NN245802UL wrote:
    Well this is not a solution at all.
    When importing I put a Sytle with the parameters at a starting point.
    Then I make the adjustements individual for every variant (some time copying from another if in the same serie,
    Then I appply styles by creating a new layer with a style.


    Sorry, I do not understand what you are doing with the workflow you have described.
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