Images viewed within C1 versus viewed outside C1
Hello,
Basically, output from RAW to JPG downsized to 1920 looks much superior to image output full resolution. All things being equal, how do I get a full res image that looks as good as the 1920..?
I have a RAW image in C1.
It is of ice on the beach with sunrise.
In C1, I like the contrast and the ice appears to have a sheen to it. The black stones on the beach have nice highlights. Fine. However, when I output the image, the contrast is lower, the highlights on the rock are diminished, and the texture/feel of the ice is lost... I will try to insert a couple images... Not talking about subtle differences here. Not in comparison, anyway.
The first shows a portion of the frame. The upper left is a JPG output and resized to 1920 on the long edge. Under it is the PEF and to the right are TIF that were output at 100% / no resizing. Both JPG & TIF were out put as sRGB. The two TIF on the right are the same but are replicated on each row to make things easier to review... Further below is a closer section of the ice.
Output at 1920 pixels, the JPG is viewed at 100% in the screen capture and the TIF & PEF are at 33%, I think. Whatever was closest...
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3852/14220529180_a396bd4ce7_z.jpg
Looking at the ice and rock a little closer
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3915/14407138435_aa2fabc143_z.jpg
Now, the TIF looks quite mushy. The JPG, sized down severely, is a closer match to the PEF (oh, some may not know, that is a RAW format). The JPG loses some but not nearly as much as the TIF. The TIF is unacceptable, really.
Of course, there is no difference with viewing software because I am looking at these in C1 again. Now, I could see an argument that the loss is change to color sRGB. Maybe. However, I got the same results with 'camera profile' embedded. And, why is the downsized image so much better. Not only sharpness and contrast but the highlight of the sun on the black rock at the foot of the blue ice... It isn't really color space, I think. I output a TIF sized down to 4000 from my native 4600 or so and it looked some better than the full size TIF but not as good as the 1920.
So, sizing down is a key to the mystery...
I don't want images at 1920 pixels, though, so how do I get the same contrast and feel to the image that is possible at 1920 pixels but with a full resolution image... I figure that if I output a full size TIF from C1 and then viewed the TIF in C1 I should see a quality at least as good as I see with the sized down JPG, 1920...
Oh, I did take the full res image to PS for wide radius / low % sharpening (not the image in the screenshot; I tried this with another). This brought back some... But it isn't just sharpness that is lost.. The look of the ice never returned. Plus, this made the soft fade to the sun in the frame look like crap. I admit, I am not a good sharpening sharpener.
Basically, output from RAW to JPG downsized to 1920 looks much superior to image output full resolution. All things being equal, how do I get a full res image that looks as good as the 1920..?
I have a RAW image in C1.
It is of ice on the beach with sunrise.
In C1, I like the contrast and the ice appears to have a sheen to it. The black stones on the beach have nice highlights. Fine. However, when I output the image, the contrast is lower, the highlights on the rock are diminished, and the texture/feel of the ice is lost... I will try to insert a couple images... Not talking about subtle differences here. Not in comparison, anyway.
The first shows a portion of the frame. The upper left is a JPG output and resized to 1920 on the long edge. Under it is the PEF and to the right are TIF that were output at 100% / no resizing. Both JPG & TIF were out put as sRGB. The two TIF on the right are the same but are replicated on each row to make things easier to review... Further below is a closer section of the ice.
Output at 1920 pixels, the JPG is viewed at 100% in the screen capture and the TIF & PEF are at 33%, I think. Whatever was closest...
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3852/14220529180_a396bd4ce7_z.jpg
Looking at the ice and rock a little closer
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3915/14407138435_aa2fabc143_z.jpg
Now, the TIF looks quite mushy. The JPG, sized down severely, is a closer match to the PEF (oh, some may not know, that is a RAW format). The JPG loses some but not nearly as much as the TIF. The TIF is unacceptable, really.
Of course, there is no difference with viewing software because I am looking at these in C1 again. Now, I could see an argument that the loss is change to color sRGB. Maybe. However, I got the same results with 'camera profile' embedded. And, why is the downsized image so much better. Not only sharpness and contrast but the highlight of the sun on the black rock at the foot of the blue ice... It isn't really color space, I think. I output a TIF sized down to 4000 from my native 4600 or so and it looked some better than the full size TIF but not as good as the 1920.
So, sizing down is a key to the mystery...
I don't want images at 1920 pixels, though, so how do I get the same contrast and feel to the image that is possible at 1920 pixels but with a full resolution image... I figure that if I output a full size TIF from C1 and then viewed the TIF in C1 I should see a quality at least as good as I see with the sized down JPG, 1920...
Oh, I did take the full res image to PS for wide radius / low % sharpening (not the image in the screenshot; I tried this with another). This brought back some... But it isn't just sharpness that is lost.. The look of the ice never returned. Plus, this made the soft fade to the sun in the frame look like crap. I admit, I am not a good sharpening sharpener.
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Okay, i did manage to get the images inserted.
the first screenshot is a little small to be useable but that is the only size, 640 pixels, i could get to work... hard to see differences.
in the second screenshot, though, it is possible to see that the tif on the right looks very mushy compared to the PEF in the middle and the jpg on the left. the jpg had no out put treatment different from the tif. other than being sized down, that is.0 -
Okay...
I said in the initial post that I had taken the image to PS and applied wide radius sharpening... I did. After seeing how poorly the TIF looked in C1, I didn't look at it critically in PS. I didn't.
I decided to go back to PS and try to learn more about sharpening. The wide radius stuff had helped the TIF, so I thought, but destroyed the transition of color around the sun.
Well, looking more critically at the TIF in PS and the PEF in C1....
alt+TAB back and forth...
Turns out my detail is in the TIF..?!
In C1, the TIF still looks mushy, like the screenshots.
In PS, viewed at the same screen size magnification as in C1, the images are nearly the same...!
The image in PS is very nearly the same but looks only slightly better than the image in C1 at screen sizes below 100%. Okay, this probably has to do with interpolating the image for display. At 100%, they are the same. Fine.
Taking this new information... I went back to C1. In C1, the PEF looks better at screen sizes under 100%. However, both viewed in C1 at 100%, the PEF and TIF look the same. Yeah, I should have checked 100% from the start, but I just didn't expect to see a difference in presentation anyway. I figured comparing the TIF to the PEF in C1 at any comparable screen magnification would show me.. what I should see. So I presumed it was file output and not file display.
Why does the TIF output from C1 look so poorly in C1 at sizes under 100%, I don't know. I don't really care right now. I thought I was having major troubles with some output setting.
Anyway, I think this has turned out to be a bit of a goat rodeo on my part.
Not sure why TIF images look so poor in C1, but the quality of the files, both TIF & JPG, itself seems fine in other software. Oh, they were all new files and file names so it shouldn't be a trouble with me viewing an old image cached in C1. Guess it is just how C1 resizes internally for viewing on screen.
Anyway, I guess I will leave the thread.
But things are resolved as far as I am concerned.
Maybe it will help someone.. one day...
PS
In the first post, I had said the wide radius sharpening in PS brought back some of the look the PEF had... Yeah. The look was always there but I didn't really 'look' before applying the sharpening. The look was there but the wide radius sharpening destroyed it. Well, 'destroy' applies around the sun. The other bits just became a little too contrasty...0 -
Maybe your preview image size is set small, that could cause the images to look bad in C1. 0 -
sizzlingbadger wrote:
Maybe your preview image size is set small, that could cause the images to look bad in C1.
Thanks. I have preview set for the second from highest size, but I think you are right. I hadn't considered I might be shown a preview of the TIF... should have thought of this, though. I think you are right.0
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