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Capture one 20 vs 12 engine difference in rendering

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14 comments

  • Ramon B Rodriguez
    Just upgraded, and terribly disappointed. Where did it go the 'view selected colors' in the 'color editor' tool...?
    At a first glance, colors look terribly saturated.
    And still waiting for the Leica Summilux 28/1.7 (Leica Q2 fixed lens) profile.
    Disappointing...!!!
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  • James McIntosh
    Francois_Karacsony wrote:
    Hi all,

    C20 has just been released. and looks great.

    I tried to see some RAF files with the new engine in C20. I tried to make a new variant from a file. The new variant turned out to be made with c20 engine which is great. The issue is that the new variant turn out to be much more dark as if really underexposed and way darker.

    PS. the original file in C12 engine was not edited at all and no changes were made on it.

    please let me know your comments


    Wowza, same comment in 2 threads.
    The "View Selected Colors" is just where it was in v12?
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  • Francois_Karacsony
    TUG wrote:
    Francois_Karacsony wrote:
    Hi all,

    C20 has just been released. and looks great.

    I tried to see some RAF files with the new engine in C20. I tried to make a new variant from a file. The new variant turned out to be made with c20 engine which is great. The issue is that the new variant turn out to be much more dark as if really underexposed and way darker.

    PS. the original file in C12 engine was not edited at all and no changes were made on it.

    please let me know your comments


    Wowza, same comment in 2 threads.
    The "View Selected Colors" is just where it was in v12?


    when cloning it is ok. when making a new variant it is way darker... I edited my post
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    errebe wrote:
    (...)
    Where did it go the 'view selected colors' in the 'color editor' tool...?

    If you refer to the renewed Basic Color Editor, click on the button with 3 dots just right from the line of color samples. This will open the Edit Color Ranges dialog with the ... (drumroll) 'View selected color' checkbox.
    errebe wrote:
    At a first glance, colors look terribly saturated.

    For the Leica Q2 please read this support document:
    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004027358-Why-are-the-colors-are-oversaturated-in-the-files-from-Leica-Q2-in-Capture-One-20-
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  • Ramon B Rodriguez
    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    errebe wrote:
    (...)
    Where did it go the 'view selected colors' in the 'color editor' tool...?

    If you refer to the renewed Basic Color Editor, click on the button with 3 dots just right from the line of color samples. This will open the Edit Color Ranges dialog with the ... (drumroll) 'View selected color' checkbox.
    errebe wrote:
    At a first glance, colors look terribly saturated.

    For the Leica Q2 please read this support document:
    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004027358-Why-are-the-colors-are-oversaturated-in-the-files-from-Leica-Q2-in-Capture-One-20-


    Regarding the ICC camera profile for Leica Q2, nothing happened after more than one month.

    When is this bug going to be fixed...? I understand minor bugs can be expected, but honestly, this is too much. CO is deservedly praised by its quality and so on, but again, this is too much.

    In my case, I am (I was) organizing a personal web page and other things, and I am just stuck for more than one month. CO is a paid software, and not cheap, and users I think we deserve better treatment.

    Are admins going to provide any information about this...?

    Best.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    errebe wrote:
    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    errebe wrote:
    (...)
    Where did it go the 'view selected colors' in the 'color editor' tool...?

    If you refer to the renewed Basic Color Editor, click on the button with 3 dots just right from the line of color samples. This will open the Edit Color Ranges dialog with the ... (drumroll) 'View selected color' checkbox.
    errebe wrote:
    At a first glance, colors look terribly saturated.

    For the Leica Q2 please read this support document:
    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004027358-Why-are-the-colors-are-oversaturated-in-the-files-from-Leica-Q2-in-Capture-One-20-


    Regarding the ICC camera profile for Leica Q2, nothing happened after more than one month.

    When is this bug going to be fixed...? I understand minor bugs can be expected, but honestly, this is too much. CO is deservedly praised by its quality and so on, but again, this is too much.

    In my case, I am (I was) organizing a personal web page and other things, and I am just stuck for more than one month. CO is a paid software, and not cheap, and users I think we deserve better treatment.

    Are admins going to provide any information about this...?

    Best.

    Did you read the article that Paul provided a link to? It does provide a fix that you could use. (You could set the No Colour Correction setting as default for the camera for now.) I agree that a permanent fix would be good, and it is to be hoped that one will come soon. Admins of this forum are unlikely to provide updates about this issue here - this is a user-to-user forum.

    Ian
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  • Ramon B Rodriguez
    Regarding the ICC camera profile for Leica Q2, nothing happened after more than one month.

    When is this bug going to be fixed...? I understand minor bugs can be expected, but honestly, this is too much. CO is deservedly praised by its quality and so on, but again, this is too much.

    In my case, I am (I was) organizing a personal web page and other things, and I am just stuck for more than one month. CO is a paid software, and not cheap, and users I think we deserve better treatment.

    Are admins going to provide any information about this...?

    Best.
    Did you read the article that Paul provided a link to? It does provide a fix that you could use. (You could set the No Colour Correction setting as default for the camera for now.) I agree that a permanent fix would be good, and it is to be hoped that one will come soon. Admins of this forum are unlikely to provide updates about this issue here - this is a user-to-user forum.

    Ian

    Yes Ian, I did read the link you mention long time ago, and does not provide any fix at all... Furthermore, if we go to temporary fix, selecting 'DNG File neutral' and 'Linear response' gives much better result... even so, my point is how CO can go through and update with such a bug like this. Do you work with a Leica Q2...? If not, you cannot have idea what is this about: like a cheap, snapshot disposable camera, without the charming in it. I do not know about other models.

    I must remind we pay for this software. Many of us depend on this software for our regular workflow.

    And if the admins or the techs do not read and/or feel obliged to make any comment after almost two months, too bad for them.

    Never expected something like this from CO. Not only the bug itself, but how are they acting after that.

    Very disappointing, to say the least.

    Thanks and best,

    Ramón
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  • SFA
    It is also possible to set the default processing engine to V12.

    Doing this should make the workflow easier for now.

    That said I have briefly tested to understand what this problem is about using a sample file from the internet and the suggestion to use Linear looks like a sensible approach to me. I always use Linear as a starting point with my RAW files anyway. Perhaps I am biased?


    Grant
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  • Photocor
    Hello,
    When you do a new variant from V12 to V20, defaults settings are applyed, llike curve and noised reduction (position 50 for each cusor). This could be one explanation.
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  • BeO
    Top Commenter
    SFA wrote:
    I always use Linear as a starting point with my RAW files anyway. Perhaps I am biased?
    Grant


    Grant, Phase One tries heavily to sell style packs, and you admit using the linear profile? Sacrilege... ☹️ 😂

    No, on a more serious note, can you explain the benefits you (personally) are having by starting with the linear profile? And what do you miss out, e.g. the image professors' camera profiling?

    Thanks,
    BeO
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    errebe wrote:
    Regarding the ICC camera profile for Leica Q2, nothing happened after more than one month.

    I hope you already found Capture One 20.0.2, which includes a fix for the Leica Q2 issue.
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  • SFA
    BeO wrote:
    SFA wrote:
    I always use Linear as a starting point with my RAW files anyway. Perhaps I am biased?
    Grant


    Grant, Phase One tries heavily to sell style packs, and you admit using the linear profile? Sacrilege... ☹️ 😂

    No, on a more serious note, can you explain the benefits you (personally) are having by starting with the linear profile? And what do you miss out, e.g. the image professors' camera profiling?

    Thanks,
    BeO


    Styles? Styles?

    Interesting things and the basis of promoted operational workflow for many Digital Image editors but, other than those attempting Fuji film emulations, not necessarily of great interest?

    I recall watching some videos related to another product some years ago that heavily promoted the benefits of the quickly attainable "looks" that could be achieved using their presets and styles. Hundreds of them.

    99% of the time the presenter used his claimed "favourite" style(s). Always the same options, but spent some time scrolling up and don the list just to show the features.

    Linear gives a more open starting point and no constraint of available dynamic range. Most of my shots are outdoors in variable conditions. I just find the Linear and Auto Levels, HDR, Clarity, to see what is possible (plus one or two other defaults applied on import based on the camera used), give me a wider options starting point for many of the images. Not all are changed. I'f things look OK with a default applied I may go with it unless I need the extra darks or lights recovery for some reason.

    V20's revised HDR settings my tempt me to change things a little. Perhaps the default falling back on Linear may become less popular for me. That said the new HDR seems to give its gifts in a very different way to the V12 version so I need to rethink my approach. A lot.

    I started to work this way after a reading one of (iirc) Drew's posts in the blog - probably 4 or 5 years ago now.

    For my mages with my now "older" cameras I just seemed to get a result I preferred. Add a few more tweaks and then copy and paste to similar images.

    For initial output that works more than well enough. For a final print image I would undertake some further finessing - probably. If I felt it was a requirement.
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  • BeO
    Top Commenter
    Thanks Grant, I will play with, but first I have to repair this f.... Windows 10 operating system which I run since November but more and more freezes over, unrelated to Capture One, btw.

    But one question I have indeed: the color science is in the camera profile, not in the Curve, right? So with Linear, I can use the exposure, HDR levels tools etc and stoll have my camera's colors ss interpreted by Phase One, that's my understanding here.
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  • SFA
    BeO wrote:
    Thanks Grant, I will play with, but first I have to repair this f.... Windows 10 operating system which I run since November but more and more freezes over, unrelated to Capture One, btw.

    But one question I have indeed: the color science is in the camera profile, not in the Curve, right? So with Linear, I can use the exposure, HDR levels tools etc and stoll have my camera's colors ss interpreted by Phase One, that's my understanding here.


    Linear looks flat until you apply some adjustments.

    I=t is basically the RAW sensor data, made to look like an image we humans can recognise with minimum amount of processing for basis colour rendition (interpreting the sensor's data) and a little sharpening to stop people thinking their eyes have stopped working. But no interpretive curves attempting to make it look like film or the embedded jpg that one might see in a "viewer" application.

    That, basically, means you can set your own values - and save them as presets and styles if you so wish. And so apply them on import if you think that would always work for you. It might, depending on what and how you shoot.

    Here is the link to part of my inspiration.

    https://blog.captureone.com/customized-workflow-workspace-tips-and-tricks/

    The other part is usually Auto Levels with the levels tool set to separate colours.

    And often aggressive use of the HDR tool but that is shot and camera dependent. Also seemingly in need of re-experimenting following the V20 changes to the HDR tool.


    Grant
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