Dissatisfaction with Capture One Tech Support
On 12/22/19, I reported a problem "automatically" downloading images with C1 (13.0.1.19). I was able to manually import the images, so I did not lose total C1 functionality. I never experienced this problem with previous versions of C1.
On 12/22/19, I received an automated reply from C1, "Your request (xxxxx) has been received and is being reviewed by our support staff."
It is now 1/1/20 and I have not heard any response from Tech Support.
On 12/22/19, I received an automated reply from C1, "Your request (xxxxx) has been received and is being reviewed by our support staff."
It is now 1/1/20 and I have not heard any response from Tech Support.
0
-
Horseoncowboy wrote:
makes me wonder why for example affinity is successful and able to bring 3 apps + 2 iPad versions to the market within a few years ? a LR/C1 like software is in the works too. the secret ? they are able to listen to their user have a feature roadmap and do everything in the open. but more they are able to deliver support and have a development team listen at the same time too. the development of affinity photo took 5 year but it took p1 10 years to update the NR .
People don't sound too happy with Phase One. Anyone considering switching to other software, or have you all gotten used to, if not resigned yourselves to, the way things are?
I still have a week left of the version 20 demo, though I doubt if my support requests will be answered before it runs out. I've given up on switching from Lightroom completely, mainly because of the file management/search function of C1, but I'd still like to use C1 as a supplement to LR at least. Only the near lack of support, the apparent lack of interest in user feedback and the many limitations of C1, not to mention the broken keystone function, makes me hesitant.0 -
Horseoncowboy wrote:
SFA wrote:
Surely the objectives for beta testing are somewhat varied?
From a pure software testing perspective a developer would like some sort of controlled cadre of testers who are- Known to be competent with the product;
Have time to actually do some testing;
As a group cover a wide range of functionality available in the product;
As a group cover a wide range of photographic (in this specifc case) genre;
Are not going to require support to understand the parts of the product they should already know;
Can report a problem clearly and explain how they investigated and tested;
Can report a problem with evidence;
Have enough nous to try some options to test the breadth or depth of a problem;
Understand enough about their hardware and systems to be able to differentiate between a possible application level bug and some sort of hardware/firmware/OS/Driver incompatibility;
Are representative of typical users of both Mac and Windows operating systems that are currently supported;
Use equipment that covers a number of years of technology;
Represent a full range of camera manufacturer products and, to some extent, lens manufacturers as well;
Are representative of customers using other software (PS, Affinity, Etc.) and plug-ins as part of the work flow.
Once these helpers have tested the base level of functionality a wider group, perhaps representing the potential for the huge number of system configuration variations out in the wild (Especially in Windows World) might be included as a final 'sweep up'.
It shouldn't be too much effort to arrange, manage and co-ordinate such a team should it?
Not too costly?
How should one measure the success ratio and do a cost benefit analysis?
How would it help with testing something from an external supplier, say an operating system developer or a ancillary card driver program that changed at the last moment?
Apple can't be certain to deliver a totally problem free release.
Microsoft can't be certain to deliver a totally problem free update.
They both have plenty of resources and stacks of cash to fund them.
Plus they are in total control of their products and attempt to control any third party products that use their products.
So what system of testing do they use that is still not flawless?
I could go on but I'll leave the discussion of agile development and testing for some other place at another time.
Grant
makes me wonder why for example affinity is successful and able to bring 3 apps + 2 iPad versions to the market within a few years ? a LR/C1 like software is in the works too. the secret ? they are able to listen to their user have a feature roadmap and do everything in the open. but more they are able to deliver support and have a development team listen at the same time too. the development of affinity photo took 5 year but it took p1 10 years to update the NR .
PhotoPlus had been around for a while though. Windows only.
The most obvious completely "New" thing about Affinity was its availability on Mac.
The UI was enhanced when it finally arrived on Windows.
There is, as far as I have seen, no DAM of any sort.
I'm not criticizing - just pointing out some different objectives and that Serif is a different sort of company in terms of its origin and interests.
I can't comment about the open testing as I don't follow the forum and of course of a lot of the functionality is more PS than C1. My guess is that it might be Open and apparently Engaged (like Adobe) but the outcomes are not necessarily a significantly different experience to, say, C1.
Maybe I'll take another look soon.
That said the companies are from different countries and so there may be some cultural differences in play that influence our perceptions.
Grant0 - Known to be competent with the product;
-
SFA wrote:
I can't comment about the open testing as I don't follow the forum and of course of a lot of the functionality is more PS than C1. My guess is that it might be Open and apparently Engaged (like Adobe) but the outcomes are not necessarily a significantly different experience to, say, C1.
Maybe I'll take another look soon.
I would base your assumptions on facts and not guesses. Go take a look. The outcome is different.0 -
thomaskyhn wrote:
Horseoncowboy wrote:
makes me wonder why for example affinity is successful and able to bring 3 apps + 2 iPad versions to the market within a few years ? a LR/C1 like software is in the works too. the secret ? they are able to listen to their user have a feature roadmap and do everything in the open. but more they are able to deliver support and have a development team listen at the same time too. the development of affinity photo took 5 year but it took p1 10 years to update the NR .
People don't sound too happy with Phase One. Anyone considering switching to other software, or have you all gotten used to, if not resigned yourselves to, the way things are?
I still have a week left of the version 20 demo, though I doubt if my support requests will be answered before it runs out. I've given up on switching from Lightroom completely, mainly because of the file management/search function of C1, but I'd still like to use C1 as a supplement to LR at least. Only the near lack of support, the apparent lack of interest in user feedback and the many limitations of C1, not to mention the broken keystone function, makes me hesitant.
Consider switching? Nope. I have no issues with v20 - didn't have a need to contact support. It's not LR. It's different (keystone isn't broken as far as I'm concerned; there are as many limitations in LR as there are in C1, only in different aspects). I've used it since before v3, most of the time concurrently with LR and made a full switch to C1 some 5 years ago. Checked out LR again a few years ago but stuck with C1. Is it perfect? No. Neither is LR. I had a couple of bugs that really bothered me in LR, support reproduced and acknowledged them, just never did anything about them, so I have no romantic notion of the grass being greener elsewhere. Also, my experience with C1 support is excellent. Always had a reply within 24 hours. It is clear they've got issues at the moment and they've been acknowledged by Phase, but I expect them to get back or close enough to normal within a few weeks (they'd better!).
Anyway, that's my experience. I'll happily stick with C1 for the time being. Having said that, if you're unhappy: vote with your wallet. I always did and I can really recommend it. If you think a product stinks, abandon it and don't look back. Trying to get a company to change its ways is an utterly frustrating affair. I drove a brand new French car for two years - I know from experience 😉0 -
Horseoncowboy wrote:
makes me wonder why for example affinity is successful and able to bring 3 apps + 2 iPad versions to the market within a few years ? a LR/C1 like software is in the works too. the secret ? they are able to listen to their user have a feature roadmap and do everything in the open. but more they are able to deliver support and have a development team listen at the same time too. the development of affinity photo took 5 year but it took p1 10 years to update the NR .
I think Serif's a brilliant company. Have most of their products and I look forward to seeing their version of LR/C1.
Having said that, making it sound as if C1 has only updated NR these past 10 years and ignoring everything else, makes no sense at all and I'm phrasing it gently.0 -
photoGrant wrote:
SFA wrote:
I can't comment about the open testing as I don't follow the forum and of course of a lot of the functionality is more PS than C1. My guess is that it might be Open and apparently Engaged (like Adobe) but the outcomes are not necessarily a significantly different experience to, say, C1.
Maybe I'll take another look soon.
I would base your assumptions on facts and not guesses. Go take a look. The outcome is different.
Based in a comparison of comments the last time I did look (Probably about a year ago now) things looked very similar.
Without access to internal information from the Tech Support functions of both companies we have no facts to compare.
Grant
ETA. edited for clarity.0 -
SFA wrote:
PhotoPlus had been around for a while though. Windows only.
The most obvious completely "New" thing about Affinity was its availability on Mac.
wrong ! just do a search, affinity photo is a complete new written app and not just an upgrade to the old serif software. the development team talks open on what they are working on so the LR/c1 thing is no secret just search the forum. the affinity team is in many aspects of customer relation the total opposite of snobbish P1.0 -
Horseoncowboy wrote:
SFA wrote:
PhotoPlus had been around for a while though. Windows only.
The most obvious completely "New" thing about Affinity was its availability on Mac.
wrong ! just do a search, affinity photo is a complete new written app and not just an upgrade to the old serif software. the development team talks open on what they are working on so the LR/c1 thing is no secret just search the forum. the affinity team is in many aspects of customer relation the total opposite of snobbish P1.
I've read that in the past.
It may well be all new code.
From memory the older products were all 32bit for a start (or lack of it).
But the core functionality offers the same primary set of tools. Some of them may be enhanced and offered through a revised UI but it's not like having to create an entire concept 100% new from scratch. It's only code converted, with or without significant changes, from one development tool to another. Maybe rewritten completely when existing stuff really needed it or the technology just meant the old stuff could not be used.
Then you add the new stuff in terms of functionality.
The big thing was having to do the Mac compatible work in order to open up that market. All power to them - they succeeded and that was a notable achievement.
Grant0 -
thomaskyhn wrote:
Horseoncowboy wrote:
makes me wonder why for example affinity is successful and able to bring 3 apps + 2 iPad versions to the market within a few years ? a LR/C1 like software is in the works too. the secret ? they are able to listen to their user have a feature roadmap and do everything in the open. but more they are able to deliver support and have a development team listen at the same time too. the development of affinity photo took 5 year but it took p1 10 years to update the NR .
People don't sound too happy with Phase One. Anyone considering switching to other software, or have you all gotten used to, if not resigned yourselves to, the way things are?
I still have a week left of the version 20 demo, though I doubt if my support requests will be answered before it runs out. I've given up on switching from Lightroom completely, mainly because of the file management/search function of C1, but I'd still like to use C1 as a supplement to LR at least. Only the near lack of support, the apparent lack of interest in user feedback and the many limitations of C1, not to mention the broken keystone function, makes me hesitant.
c1 does a few things really good but it is also frustrating. I try not to think of all this unnecessary shortcomings c1 carries on for years when I work with It.0 -
Emile wrote:
thomaskyhn wrote:
People don't sound too happy with Phase One. Anyone considering switching to other software, or have you all gotten used to, if not resigned yourselves to, the way things are?
I still have a week left of the version 20 demo, though I doubt if my support requests will be answered before it runs out. I've given up on switching from Lightroom completely, mainly because of the file management/search function of C1, but I'd still like to use C1 as a supplement to LR at least. Only the near lack of support, the apparent lack of interest in user feedback and the many limitations of C1, not to mention the broken keystone function, makes me hesitant.
Consider switching? Nope. I have no issues with v20 - didn't have a need to contact support. It's not LR. It's different (keystone isn't broken as far as I'm concerned; there are as many limitations in LR as there are in C1, only in different aspects). I've used it since before v3, most of the time concurrently with LR and made a full switch to C1 some 5 years ago. Checked out LR again a few years ago but stuck with C1. Is it perfect? No. Neither is LR. I had a couple of bugs that really bothered me in LR, support reproduced and acknowledged them, just never did anything about them, so I have no romantic notion of the grass being greener elsewhere. Also, my experience with C1 support is excellent. Always had a reply within 24 hours. It is clear they've got issues at the moment and they've been acknowledged by Phase, but I expect them to get back or close enough to normal within a few weeks (they'd better!).
Anyway, that's my experience. I'll happily stick with C1 for the time being. Having said that, if you're unhappy: vote with your wallet. I always did and I can really recommend it. If you think a product stinks, abandon it and don't look back. Trying to get a company to change its ways is an utterly frustrating affair. I drove a brand new French car for two years - I know from experience 😉
Thanks for your comments.
As regards the keystone function, I should perhaps have written "partly broken" as it does work in some cases; here's an example of it not working: [The Capture One forum has migrated to a new platform, as a result all links to Capture One related postsstopped working and have been removed]&start=150 -
Horseoncowboy wrote:
thomaskyhn wrote:
Horseoncowboy wrote:
makes me wonder why for example affinity is successful and able to bring 3 apps + 2 iPad versions to the market within a few years ? a LR/C1 like software is in the works too. the secret ? they are able to listen to their user have a feature roadmap and do everything in the open. but more they are able to deliver support and have a development team listen at the same time too. the development of affinity photo took 5 year but it took p1 10 years to update the NR .
People don't sound too happy with Phase One. Anyone considering switching to other software, or have you all gotten used to, if not resigned yourselves to, the way things are?
I still have a week left of the version 20 demo, though I doubt if my support requests will be answered before it runs out. I've given up on switching from Lightroom completely, mainly because of the file management/search function of C1, but I'd still like to use C1 as a supplement to LR at least. Only the near lack of support, the apparent lack of interest in user feedback and the many limitations of C1, not to mention the broken keystone function, makes me hesitant.
c1 does a few things really good but it is also frustrating. I try not to think of all this unnecessary shortcomings c1 carries on for years when I work with It.
This, exactly, is my impression so far: there are certain things that are really good in C1 – e.g. layers and colour adjustments – and many frustrating limitations.0 -
Horseoncowboy wrote:
the development team talks open on what they are working on so the LR/c1 thing is no secret just search the forum.
That part intrigued me so I did search their forum. Here is what I found.
On this thread: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/25835-digital-asset-management/ there is some talk about a DAM from Affinity but no commitment. At the start of the thread it did seem encouraging but years passed and not much was said let alone announced.
Then this thread a year ago: https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/78416-photo-management/&tab=comments#comment-411125
Where a staff member said they are *not* working on a DAM product.
Is there something more recent that I missed?0 -
IanL wrote:
Is there something more recent that I missed?
Nope, you're missing nothing - there is zero chance that any official Phase One/Capture One voice would ever formally commit to a particular direction of development travel, on here.
Pure wishful thinking to suggest otherwise.0 -
Keith Reeder wrote:
Nope, you're missing nothing - there is zero chance that any official Phase One/Capture One voice would ever formally commit to a particular direction of development travel, on here.
Yep, message received loud and clear by Phase One.Keith Reeder wrote:
Pure wishful thinking to suggest otherwise.
Sorry, I was talking about over at Affinity. The claim was made that the Affinity team was working on a DAM product. I found little evidence of that but a year old.0 -
IanL wrote:
Sorry, I was talking about over at Affinity. The claim was made that the Affinity team was working on a DAM product. I found little evidence of that but a year old.
I've just spent a few minutes reading through some of the most recent posts on the Affinity forums, regular problems reports and the beta forums.
All sorts of subjects being discussed including some surprises from Apple, whether or not a DAM would be a good idea (but I didn't see anything that looked like an official comment or guidance.
Nothing that looked like some discussion about an LR/C1 type application.
Several comments about getting existing long standing bugs "fixed" before starting anything new.
A number of people looking forward to getting Canon CR3 support whenever the current beta is shipped.
Etc.
All in all much the same sort of discussions as can be found here though perhaps a little less active in some ways and maybe somewhat more polite. I few people are especially polite and seemingly appreciative of the work being undertaken year on year.
The forums certainly seems to have a different 'feel' to them but that aside the content was quite similar although perhaps not as "intensely" discussed.
My impression has not changed compared to my last visit - which I have remembered was to discover what I could about CR3 file support availability.
FWIW the last time I took a look at the Adobe forums (again not especially recently) I got the same feeling of familiarity.
Where else should I look? There could be a thesis in this browsing...
Meanwhile thank you IanL. I think my perception generally agree with yours.
Grant0 -
grant
psychologist call this "selective perception" being only able to see what you want to see 😊
so without surprise your report could not find anything I have pointed out especially not how support, developers and user interact and maybe there has been a change of plan but .....MattP / Stuff posted this:
Posted December 20, 2017
I know I'm arriving at this party very late (because I didn't see it until now...) but nobody is trying to 'not answer' anything and there are no 'difficult questions' - there are only questions that some moderators may not know the answer to as they're not privy to all information. I'll say this: I'm sitting next to the guys that are writing the DAM... It's a thing.
and
Meb / Stuff
Posted February 13, 2019
The DAM app was already discussed in several threads on the forums, mentioned on twitter and in a few interviews. There's wasn't an "official" statement, press release or something along those lines because we are still far away from its release - there's really nothing to disclose/discuss at this point other than what was revealed. It's way to soon for that.
but now lets get back to our real problem.....0 -
picman2 wrote:
I have little problems with C1 and it still is my nr 1. However, since we are comparing to other softwares, what do you think about ON1 as an alternative?
This is a comment about the software, not the tech support. I have tried ON1, and I have ON1 2019. I have decided not to pay for ON1 2020.
ON1 is a different kind of application. It aims more to combine DAM, raw conversion and pixel editing. So you might use ON1 as a one-stop solution instead of a combination of, say Lightroom + Photoshop, or Capture One + Affinity Photo. I find I can get reasonable results out of it. But with version 2019 at least, it struggles on my older Macs, for instance, there is such a lag on applying brush strokes that it becomes almost unworkable. It is claimed that version 2020 has improved this, but I have not tried it. As with most apps, I like what I am accustomed to and find the different ways it works from Capture One frustrating. (Much the same feeling, I think, as ex Lightroom users express here sometimes, along the lines of why doesn't it work like Lightroom.)
Of course, on easy images it is possible to get a good result from may different apps. I haven't used it enough to discover how well it would work with problem images (for instance in controlling noise in an image shot in poor light).
Ian0 -
Ian3 wrote:
As with most apps, I like what I am accustomed to and find the different ways it works from Capture One frustrating. (Much the same feeling, I think, as ex Lightroom users express here sometimes, along the lines of why doesn't it work like Lightroom.)
Regarding Lightroom vs. C1 (if you'll excuse the digression from the tech support theme). While the above covers part of my frustration with C1, it doesn't account for all of it. Certainly, many things work differently in C1, and coming from Lightroom you need to get used to that. (And I, myself, am guilty of some misunderstanding and trying people's patience.) But actual lacks and limitations, of which there are quite a few, are not just a question of C1 working differently, or for that matter C1 being based on another design philosophy – as if these lacks and limitations were the result of some consistent principle – but a question of just that: lacks and limitations.0 -
Horseoncowboy wrote:
grant
psychologist call this "selective perception" being only able to see what you want to see 😊
so without surprise your report could not find anything I have pointed out especially not how support, developers and user interact and maybe there has been a change of plan but .....MattP / Stuff posted this:
Posted December 20, 2017
I know I'm arriving at this party very late (because I didn't see it until now...) but nobody is trying to 'not answer' anything and there are no 'difficult questions' - there are only questions that some moderators may not know the answer to as they're not privy to all information. I'll say this: I'm sitting next to the guys that are writing the DAM... It's a thing.
and
Meb / Stuff
Posted February 13, 2019
The DAM app was already discussed in several threads on the forums, mentioned on twitter and in a few interviews. There's wasn't an "official" statement, press release or something along those lines because we are still far away from its release - there's really nothing to disclose/discuss at this point other than what was revealed. It's way to soon for that.
but now lets get back to our real problem.....
So first mention 2 years ago and your second offering 1 year ago.
Failed psychology on your part. I did not have the will to look so far back so no selectivity from me.
I'm surprised that you found something so old with no product yet produced to be acceptable for even a rumour of a product. Would you allow Phase that sort of latitude before determining that, in your opinion, nothing was happening and they never listen to their users?
Grant0 -
SFA wrote:
Horseoncowboy wrote:
grant
psychologist call this "selective perception" being only able to see what you want to see 😊
so without surprise your report could not find anything I have pointed out especially not how support, developers and user interact and maybe there has been a change of plan but .....MattP / Stuff posted this:
Posted December 20, 2017
I know I'm arriving at this party very late (because I didn't see it until now...) but nobody is trying to 'not answer' anything and there are no 'difficult questions' - there are only questions that some moderators may not know the answer to as they're not privy to all information. I'll say this: I'm sitting next to the guys that are writing the DAM... It's a thing.
and
Meb / Stuff
Posted February 13, 2019
The DAM app was already discussed in several threads on the forums, mentioned on twitter and in a few interviews. There's wasn't an "official" statement, press release or something along those lines because we are still far away from its release - there's really nothing to disclose/discuss at this point other than what was revealed. It's way to soon for that.
but now lets get back to our real problem.....
So first mention 2 years ago and your second offering 1 year ago.
Failed psychology on your part. I did not have the will to look so far back so no selectivity from me.
I'm surprised that you found something so old with no product yet produced to be acceptable for even a rumour of a product. Would you allow Phase that sort of latitude before determining that, in your opinion, nothing was happening and they never listen to their users?
Grant
i´m no Software engineer so I have no idea how long it takes to develop such an app from scratch but I for sure know that the same bugs which came with capture one 20 beta are still there, approaching 3 month since the first release. at this speed you can be happy that c1 ist already developed.....0 -
Here's an example of a beta forum with developer/support based feedback.
If the apologists can't see, or want to twist their view however they'd like to form a narrative that this company operates at the same level as others when it comes to expectations of support, and actual levels of support -- you're drinking some serious Kool aid.
https://discussions.agilebits.com/categories/1password-mac-beta0 -
Support? LMAO Whats that. P!/C1 support has been horrible from day one. When I originally bought my P back, I had a local rep that actually came to my office at times to help troubleshoot. But once that rep was gone 9we are talking 8-9 years ago) support is all but non existant. The automated responses and support responses are often not more that a joke. Ive just accepted it. If you want to use C1 (or and of their backs) you have to be willing to accept that their essentially no support. The responses to this thread confirm that I am not the only one with this crappy support experience. 0 -
photoGrant wrote:
Here's an example of a beta forum with developer/support based feedback.
If the apologists can't see, or want to twist their view however they'd like to form a narrative that this company operates at the same level as others when it comes to expectations of support, and actual levels of support -- you're drinking some serious Kool aid.
https://discussions.agilebits.com/categories/1password-mac-beta
And examples of non-beta software forums where users get support from the actual company:
DEVONtechnologies: https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/
Universal Audio – who, by the way, also make hardware: https://uadforum.com/forum.php?
FabFilter: https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/0 -
NNN636440347581429185 wrote:
On 12/22/19, I reported a problem "automatically" downloading images with C1 (13.0.1.19). I was able to manually import the images, so I did not lose total C1 functionality. I never experienced this problem with previous versions of C1.
On 12/22/19, I received an automated reply from C1, "Your request (xxxxx) has been received and is being reviewed by our support staff."
It is now 1/1/20 and I have not heard any response from Tech Support.
Have you heard from them yet?0 -
I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction. 0 -
thomaskyhn wrote:
I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction.
The key to receiving less support cases is to insult the people already submitting them. That way they likely won’t try again.
Now I understand their tactics 😂0 -
photoGrant wrote:
thomaskyhn wrote:
I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction.
The key to receiving less support cases is to insult the people already submitting them. That way they likely won’t try again.
Now I understand their tactics 😂
You're definitely on to something there. I'm tempted to make a counterattack by showering them with politely phrased support requests.0 -
thomaskyhn wrote:
I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction.
Be careful about interpreting messages in a multi-language support and communication situation.
Many years ago working in a project in Sweden I was told a story about a a Swedish electronics company who, after many years of trying to obtain the service contract for maintaining the cash machines of a large US based Bank finally won the contract and took over the work. The deal was that if there were technical problems that needed analysis that prevented the simple despatch of an engineer to fix a problem they were to send a report about status of the activity to the Bank's internal service management team within 2 hours of the support request being created. There were significant penalties for failing to hit that time limit.
So the first call came in and they started to work on diagnosis and were so involved with the diagnosis, to the exclusion of everything else, that they failed to spot how much time was passing. After 1hr and 50 minutes someone remembered the 2 hr update requirement and they quickly prepared and sent a fax which, amongst other information, contained the sentence -
"We are hardly working in your problem".
The staff at the bank took this message exactly as written (It should have said "We are working very hard on your problem." ) and so things became a little fraught for a lot of people over that weekend and for some time beyond as the ripples passed through several layers of senior management without anyone really knowing what the "problem" was.
The original technical problem had long since been fixed to everyone's satisfaction and well within the contracted "fix" time.
Grant0 -
SFA wrote:
thomaskyhn wrote:
I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction.
Be careful about interpreting messages in a multi-language support and communication situation.
Naturally. But the reply showed no signs of a shaky understanding of the English language – I assume that it was written by a native speaker – and though it isn't my first language, I believe my grasp of English to be firm enough to avoid misunderstandings of the kind you give an example of. In any case, I'll paste the reply below. As you can see, the problems I had enquired about (the keystone tool producing unexpected results) are not addressed but rather written off as results of the keystone tool being used for something it isn't intended for.
"The way to use the Keystone correction tool would be to use something in the frame that you know to be square or perpendicular to the camera.
If you're using the tool with vectors [this refers to an example I had sent containing a four-sided figure with no parallel sides – a simple model of something you could come across and want to correct in an actual photo – which C1 was unable to straighten (Lightroom had no trouble with it)] in this way, then this will not give you a realistic perspective on how the tool is designed to work, which is most of the time with architectural photography.
In instances like you have illustrated, I would use the sliders to adjust the keystoning manually to your desired outcome."0 -
The question can be one of words or it can be something else - style of presentation for example.
Or perhaps an economic use of content that appears somewhat brusque.
I suspect there is a distinct but perhaps not always obvious, difference between the functionality (as designed) in C1 compared to LR.
C1 comes to the party with a software device intended to help with fine tuning Tilt and Shift lens work or the equivalent actions using a technical camera.
LR, presumably with a Photoshop library of technology behind it, probably sees the solution as a pixel manipulation exercise that can be achieves without too much concern for the niceties of lens adjustments because it can deliver its approach through pixel pushing.
I don't have the LS or PS products but I had a look in Affinity and there seems to be a perspective adjustment tool that is primarily pixel pushing. There may be more to it but I would need to look into it some more before being able to do a full comparison based comment.
Basically it looks to me like the concepts and the starting points are quite different. From what I have seen Affinity is quite squarely aimed at Photoshop with a RAW image processing attachment for those who need it.
I have not used LR since V1.4 so I have no feel for what it offers today.
But it does look like C1 has a rather different approach to alternatives and a somewhat dedicated (some might call it restrictive?) methodology that suits some types of image but not others. At least not others with the degree of simplicity of use that some applications seem to provide.
By the way for your sample image I'm not convinced the window frame is the best reference.
I suspect that there is some lens distortion in play. If not that then there is also no guarantee that the window frame is truly rectangular nor that the edges against which one might be comparing and adjusting are straight.
Using the join of metal to wall on the left of the frame or vertical, the line of the black overhang and the wall at the top of the frame for horizontal and compromising on the bottom line across the window frame and up the right hand side of the frame I thought I got a pretty balanced match that looked OK to the eye and worked pretty well with the guide lines I deployed. for a "squared up" window frame along 90% of its edges.
I would have liked to try some lens correction tweaks as well to see what happened but that's not possible with the jpg.
I would agree with content of the C1 helper's comment in that I found the fine adjustments much more useful using the keystone tool sliders and adjustment value fields compared to moving the Auto Correction Assist lines for this type of image for the fine adjustment.
Also to try to ensure one is working in 2 planes rather than 3 as far as possible. (Your example image is Ok for that if using as much of the width and height as possible. Reduce it to the window frame only and small inaccuracies of positions (of whatever cause) become more evident. That is compounded here by the apparent lack of "squareness" of the frame for what ever reason (i.e.e non-square frame as manufactured or perhaps lens distortion effects. Or both. At this point the "why" does not matter. The anomalies exist. To fix them requires a little pixel pushing if you feel it is needed for your purposes.
It has been an interest exercise experimenting. What was the lens?
Just my observations of course.
Grant
ETA: I appreciate that this post slips somewhat away from the primary topic of this thread but I feel it has some relevance to some aspects of the wider discussion.0
Post is closed for comments.
Comments
122 comments