Some visual indication whether setting or slider was changed from original position
Implemented
Not sure if this has been asked before (couldn't find anything), but I would find it really helpful if esp. those slider would have some indication whether I changed them already or if they are still in their default position.
Visual indication could slide handle greyed out a little bit or something like that.
Default I mean e.g. for white-balance original Kelvin or Tint from shot -> grey, moved by me or C1Ps automatic WB -> not grey.
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Yes, Yes and Yes.
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Yes please, that would really make it easier to see what adjustments have been used.
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For the WB example - if it is as shot that will be shown.
If it is user changed it will show as "Custom".
Depending on the camera you may also see some other options that you can select.
In general there are default settings for most sliders and in MOST BUT NOT ALL cases the default positions for the sliders will be in the centre of the slider bar if nothing has been changed. Some recent reviews have lead to further consistency in many tools with using a "standard" default setting of 50 (%) as the default in all situations. If it's not 50 then it has been altered. There are some exceptions where such an approach would just not make sense.
Tools have settings tailored to the camera/lens/image/settings for which C1 will often have default values specific to the combination.
I mention these things in order to offer some instant visible options to get you some way to seeing what has been altered - they are not intended to be a full solution to the problem of visibility.
That said my personal observation is that I very rarely need to know what has been changed unless I am trying to make a note of it for someone else's benefit.
HTH.
Grant
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@Robert: Not sure what C1P guys look at, but I think you need to upvote this post to give it more visibility...
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Thx Lost Carries, done.
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@SFA, I know what you are saying, but it would be quite a timesaver to have a visual indication of what tools have been used on a particular photo without a need to dig through a number of them.
A good example that comes to mind is Luminar 4. All the tools are grayed out by default, but as soon as you use a slider, the name of the tool turns white. Also, the section in which the tool belongs turns white as well. This is very helpful and makes it super easy (and quick) to see and adjust the tools that have been already applied. Especially when using Styles or Presets.
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I also would like to see the tools or tool box used, not the sliders themself. There are tools which do not have sliders.
It shouhld be visible in the tool box collapsed state (e.g. the Exposure tool box).
I do not know Luminar but the color white I think would be distracting (of course you mentioned it only for reference).
regards
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BeO, the way it is done in Luminar is very eye-friendly even though it sounds like it is not and it really helps.
However, it was just an example and I would be very happy to see something like that implemented in COP. Little thing, but very useful.
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@SFA: OK... WB was probably not the best example, but lets take that HDR-Tool...
...and as @Robert says: it's mostly a timesaver to have a visual indication
Color-wise I would not have strong preference. I found the Color-Wheels already have such kind of mechanism - except that I would expect the color to go back if I double-click/reset that slider (or circle for the color-wheel)...
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Very good example of how it could be done! I wouldn't mind if the color was orange as above.
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Robert Gorski,
Yep I understand all of that but then one gets to the point where someone will say that they need to know not just that a tool has been used for an image but from which layers and or styles it has been deployed ...
But do they really need to know that? If so does everyone have the same purpose for knowing and will one solution give everyone what they want (let alone what the need.)
I'm not sure it will.
I'm with BeO about having at least a possibility to see a list - possibly based something like the Clip Board copy
However MOST of the time I really do not find a need to know. It may be interesting, of course, but not a necessity unless ones editing follows no consistent pattern at all. And I suspect that most people are not that random with their approach.
I may be wrong.
However when I see regular video producers - whichever application they use - more often than not using much the same set of tools for whatever edits they make I do wonder how often there is likely to be a deeper need to know exactly what have been deployed for most images. Unless one is experimenting with something extremely different to one's normal approach.
Grant
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Can you tell me which of the tool boxes (Exposure, HDR, Clarity etc.) have been adjusted? And which channels in the Levels tool? Then I owe you a beer :-)
It is simply impossible.
As I said I am more interested in a "helicopter" view, I want to see which tool box was used. And if that tool box has several tabs I want to see it immediately without clicking through them. This is priority 1 (for me).
Whereas you can much easier identify which tools inside the box / tab are adjusted if you're a bit more familiar with C1 because you know how they look in their default state. Priority 2 (for me).
regards
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Grant,
"I'm with BeO about having at least a possibility to see a list - possibly based something like the Clip Board copy"
No I do not want to see a list (I know you want, from a discussion weeks ago). Yes I remember you favor this. As far as I am concerned, I want to see it "at" the tool box which is visible in the selected tool tab. And of the Layer I have selected.
Example:
My background layer selected, I see that Exposure, Clarity and Levels have been adjusted, and in the Levels tool box the RGB and Green channel. Maybe like so:
Regards
EDIT: I am having up to 16 layers and do not always follow the same pattern for different images. Unorganized you might say but if it helps me getting things done faster then I want it. Not having it does not solve me being unorganized... :-)
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Yes, something like that would do the job for me. It should be easy to implement I guess.
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It's funny that whichever suggestions I had in mind straight away since I started using Capture One last month, I find them here in the Feature Requests forum :-D
Indeed, I find it extremely useful when the software indicates which parameters and which tabs/tools have been changed from default.There are different approaches, and they all seem intuitive: gray dot under the slider in Fusion, red dot on a tab name in DaVinci, shaded/white parameter's value in Lightroom...
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Since Capture One uses orange color already, an orange dot would work just fine ;-)
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I feel for the request to be successful, there should be more explanation of what the benefits of this feature would be.
I can see that it would help some to reverse engineer styles but to what end would one ever check which particular adjustments one has made before?
Isn't it always just a case of judging what the image needs and then making adjustments accordingly? One does not need to know what has been done already for that.
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For a "helicopter view" one could copy the adjustments one has made to the Adjustments Clipboard and then visit the Adjustments Clipboard tool to see which tools/settingd have been used.
Wouldn't that solve the problem?I for one can imagine to find it distracting if every tool always signalled whether it has been used or not.
I would want such highlighting to be an optional feature.0 -
Highligthing should be subtle enough not to distract.
There are so many icons and orange colored things, r g b curves and color editors in the tools tab and tool bar potentially districating which I think most of us have already learned to subconsciously ignore, or have the tools hidden or on another screen that I think a subtle highlight can be made which does not distract.
But of course, yes, why not optional.
Benefits:
I often use layers and its a handful, and sometimes its more than 10.
I have layers which are tool based (e,.g. a layer to increase contrast, mircocontrast, clarify, curve, hdr, it depends...) mixed with layers which are area based (e.g. face, eyes, water, sky, tree, building walls, etc.) for which I use one or the other tool, depending on image, so it always different.
The more layers I use the more time I spent searching for the tools which were used for that particular image and layer during an extended edit session, and even more so when I revisit an image at a later day.
The benefit should be obvious then, I think, unless somebody who works like this has a brain like Einstein.
A "protocol" / helicopter-like list is not what I would favor because that's not how I work: "jumping" back and forth between protocol and layers / tools is not a streamlined or natural workflow for me.
regards
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I don't want to appear to be antagonistic but you still haven't explained why you want to know which tools were used on a layer.
Why worry about the past when the future should only be influenced by what adjustments are needed for the image (irrespective of any it already has received)?
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Totally agree with B.O as I have a very similar way of working within COP.
I never heard even one person complaining about that kind of visual help in other editing software with this being implemented, but making it an option - why not.
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I have made the request for the tools in a selected layer which have been moved from default be indicated in some way, such as orange text. For me, it would save time when returning to a photo for refining or re-edit.
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To be clear, talking about only the name of the tool in orange (?) not the entire tool.
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Orange name is already used for something else: for the current tool tab within a tool. see below example, or a selected cursor tool.
But I am sure a good designer will find a subtle non-distracting way to show us which tool box (e.g. Color Editor) or tool tab (e.g. "Skin Tone" or "Red" in Curves tool box) has a changed-from-default value.
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Class A, you have asked a question which might not haven been answered directly, because it seems to be kind of obvious for many. Let me try to answer using an example
Question: "Why worry about the past when the future should only be influenced by what adjustments are needed for the image (irrespective of any it already has received)?"
Example: I come back to an image with people in a landscape. It has already numerous layers. I notice strange colors, maybe in the faces or clothing, and in the sky. Either I think "what was I thinking at the time of editing". Or I make a variant for printing and soft-proof tells me I want to adjust.
Then I want to know why the colors are looking as they are looking, and see if this is due to adjustments I have done already. Numerous layers/tools could have been used for it.
Then I want to correct my bad adjustments by tweaking the original adjustments, not by creating another layer and mask and counteract for the bad adjustments I have done earlier. Because it keeps my layers and adjustments to a minimum e.g. for the next time (in case there is a next time) when I again re-visit the image.
Especially because we do not have this indication of used tools, the layers should be kept to a minimum, hence revisited the adjustments already done.
regards
Edit: used wrong name (Alan instead of ClassA)
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Class A. "Why worry about the past when the future should only be influenced by what adjustments are needed for the image (irrespective of any it already has received)?'
Since you went philosophical, I will respond in kind - Because those ignorant of the past are doomed to repeat it. You seem to want to treat an adjusted image as if it just came out of camera. Why pile adjustments on top of adjustments when you can work with existing adjustments? You may prefer an overlapping array of layers upon layers - if that is the way you work, fine. I suspect many others prefer a more elegant approach.
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Alan Disler,
"Because those ignorant of the past are doomed to repeat it".
Entire careers have been built on that principle! ;)
It becomes known as "authority" or perhaps "prestige".
"I have always done things like this and I have prestige. Ergo I must be right."
This is such a divisive topic that I feel uneasy commenting.
If one stongly wishes to see what adjustments have been used on a layer then the most obvious solution might start with "managing layers" in terms of their purpose and the tools used within them - i.e custom tabs, perhaps, for "sky adjustments" or 2skin adjustments" or whatever "standard subjects" one might shoot.
If one's subject matter is very varied then perhaps different C1 Workspaces with tailored Tool Tabs for the subject matter might be a useful preparation activity.
Then apply the same concept the the deployment of Layers so that, as far as possible, a layer will use tool from a single tab as deployed for the genre of subject matter.
At that point it one highlights a layer and activates/deactivates it the tools ant the adjustments used should be quite evident as one ticks and unticks the activation.
If this subject is important and critical to one's work such a concept of organisation would surely be advantageous for a few minutes work setting things up?
Sure some future change, assuming the User Masses who care can agree what it is they would like, might be even better - but this is a "Now" option not a "future" possibility.
And frankly, unless I am doing something extremely layer and content specific, if I get to the point that I have multiple adjustments for the same tool in several layers (giving who knows what overall result) I am rather disappointed that I may have failed to exercise sensible control over the process.
So a quick overview of what tools have been deployed may be useful and I support that - but a good understanding of either "Why" or "To what effect" will always require some proper engagement . In my opinion.
Grant
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Grant. "This is such a divisive topic that I feel uneasy commenting."
It's only divisive if you take it personally and make it so. Your workflow is different than mine - so what?
Your suggestions:
"If one stongly wishes to see what adjustments have been used on a layer then the most obvious solution might start with "managing layers" in terms of their purpose and the tools used within them - i.e custom tabs, perhaps, for "sky adjustments" or 2skin adjustments" or whatever "standard subjects" one might shoot.
If one's subject matter is very varied then perhaps different C1 Workspaces with tailored Tool Tabs for the subject matter might be a useful preparation activity.
Then apply the same concept the the deployment of Layers so that, as far as possible, a layer will use tool from a single tab as deployed for the genre of subject matter.
At that point it one highlights a layer and activates/deactivates it the tools ant the adjustments used should be quite evident as one ticks and unticks the activation.
If this subject is important and critical to one's work such a concept of organisation would surely be advantageous for a few minutes work setting things up?
Sure some future change, assuming the User Masses who care can agree what it is they would like, might be even better - but this is a "Now" option not a "future" possibility.
And frankly, unless I am doing something extremely layer and content specific, if I get to the point that I have multiple adjustments for the same tool in several layers (giving who knows what overall result) I am rather disappointed that I may have failed to exercise sensible control over the process."
Sure, all of it. OR:
Just highlight the darn tools used in a layer. Quicker, easier, and more elegant. If its too hard to implement, or to comprehend a differing work style, fine.
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Alan,
Yeah, OK but if you have multiple iterations of a particular tool across different layers you are probably still back to turning a layer on and off to understand its effect on the image.
For any selected layer if a tool is active on that layer the sliders, etc, will not be in the default position.
In fact there is nothing to stop you having multiple iterations of the same tool on a single layer
But my point is that there is already a form of visual indication available should people feel a need to take the time to optimise what it offers.
The further challenge is to make the information accessible in a concise form and with so many tools available and the potential for multiple instances of them being deployed, coming up with something that all opinions might feel comfortable with could be a significant challenge.
Consistency with current features would perhaps suggest something like the "Style" overview offers.
Grant
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B.O: "I come back to an image with people in a landscape. It has already numerous layers. I notice strange colors, maybe in the faces or clothing, and in the sky. "
I understand where you are coming from but my attitude remains the same: If fixing the strange colours requires a tool that I already used then I will pick it again. If a previously tool doesn't suggest itself for the job then I won't use it again but another one instead.
The only reason I can see why your requested feature would be useful is to make sure one hasn't manoeuvred oneself into a blind alley with the previous adjustments. It is sometimes possible that one has to step back before one can go forward again. To this end, it is a good idea to explicitly name one's layers so that one can target them specifically, e.g., if the sky colours are off, I'd go the "Sky Colour" layer first. Of course there are tools that one uses globally, i.e., outside layers but in my view they aren't so numerous that it wouldn't be possible to find ones edit, knowing what is wrong about the image and which tools could cause that.
Alan: "Why pile adjustments on top of adjustments when you can work with existing adjustments?"
That is not my approach.
"You may prefer an overlapping array of layers upon layers"
I don't.
"I suspect many others prefer a more elegant approach."
I hope everyone uses a more elegant approach than the one you described.0
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