C1 20 Pro Build 13.1.0.172 on MacOS High Sierra Fails on Startup and Exit
On starting, fails and re-starts
On trying to exit, no exit, navigation remains active, but no edit functions work. Often shows the 'beach ball'. Has to be force-closed.
Mac Pro; 128GB RAM; 2x3.46Ghz Xeon; Radeon RX580 (8GB RAM)
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This is also reported here.
There are many of us having this problem. :-(
Please raise a Support Case.
Login and then Raise a Support Case.
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Les, I have a similar MacPro configuration to you but my video card is non-compliant Radeon 5870, but I think you should be able to upgrade to Mojave as you have a RX580.
My Macbook Pro is on Mojave and it runs fine on there. Worth a try?
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I got an email from Tech Support this morning from that said that our MacPro multiprocessor machines incompatible and we need to have SSE4.2 capability. It contained a link to this article.
https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360008879897
I have done a tech specs search and basically your machine needs to have a Nehalem family processor, or later, in it to work.
This means that it is new machine time, or stick with 12.0.4!
Time to look at a black dustbin or the new silver beast that costs an arm and a leg!!
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Looks like we’ve all been sold a pig!
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Well, according to this, my MacPro DOES support SSE 4.2:-
Mac-Pro:~ xxxxx$ sysctl -a | grep machdep.cpu.features
- machdep.cpu.features: FPU VME DE PSE TSC MSR PAE MCE CX8 APIC SEP MTRR PGE MCA CMOV PAT PSE36 CLFSH DS ACPI MMX FXSR SSE SSE2 SS HTT TM PBE SSE3 PCLMULQDQ DTES64 MON DSCPL VMX SMX EST TM2 SSSE3 CX16 TPR PDCM SSE4.1 SSE4.2 POPCNT AES PCID
So.. where do we go from here...?
Les
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Hi Les,
I have the same machine as you: Mac Pro 5.1 mid-2010, with 2x 3.46 processors and Radeon RX580, 64 GB RAM running MacOS 10.14.6 Mojave.
All runs fine, including the edits in 13.1.
Why don't you update to Mojave (I would not go all the way to Cataline because of the 32bits non-compatibility) ? What disks/SSD's do you have ?
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Just received feedback from tech support, essentially saying my hardware is incompatible, and references above doc saying SSE4.2 ( maybe also 4.1? - it's unclear) is required. My twin Nehalem Xeon processors support this - according to the Apple CPU report.
So, there are either other - undocumented - requirements or C1 software issues?
At the moment it does not look as though C1 Support is willing to 'go past' their incompatible hardware script.
I love C1 and willing to give some doubt benefit we will hear more (better!) news soon. In the meantime, back to LR....
Just to be clear, in my own case: on startup, C1 fails and restarts. It' a bit slow, but otherwise seems fully functional... so can edit etc ( though imports are tremendously slow). But in close, it does not close just sits there, inoperative. After a while the beach ball appears. I have to force close it most of the time. Occasionally, if I'm patient enough (or gone for a coffee) it will close by itself. Les.
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Why wouldn't you upgrade to Mojave ?
It works with C1, perhaps the SSE4.x needs some software part that is not present in High Sierra to link it ?
Besides, Mojave comes with a firmware update - that never hurts :-)
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@Les
You might need to check that you are using a Metal supporting video card as I think that they are using GPU support as well.
Since your machine is later than mine and has Nehalem processor then there must be some other instructions in the i3/i5/i7/i9 instruction set that they are exploiting.
I think that they will say that the Xenon processors are not suitable if you press further.
@Claude
My MacPro (Early 2008) dual processor 8 cores Xenon W5742 with ATI Radeon HD 5870 and 38GB RAM, is max supported level by Apple.
I can apply a hack to get it up to Mojave but I also need a Metal supporting video card (NVidia RX580 with 2GB VRAM). This is an item that I have today received and I am backing up my machine prior to putting the card in the machine.
I will then update to Mojave.
I have been in contact with PhaseOne Tech Support and I also need a machine that has SSEv4.2 extensions in the CPU. This means that my processors must be later than Nehalem so typically machines post 2010/2012. Basically you need an i3 or more so probably an i7 or i5 CPU.
I have agreed to close my Support Case as I feel that is reasonable.
I have a new Mac Mini in the post to me so I will need to configure that and then test everything.
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Jonathan,
Apologies, my suggestion to upgrade was to Les :-)
Personally, I took no risks and went for the RX580 « cleared » by Apple: the Sapphire Radeon 8GB (there are several brand producing the RX580, only Sapphire is listed by Apple. And it works, with boot screen and everything.
You mention a NVidia RX 580 with Only 2 GB ?
Afraid that one is not Metal-capable.
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Hi Claude,
I thought that the 2GB was metal compliant but as you correctly stated it doesnt show Metal is supported after install but it does run smoother than my ATI Radeon HD 5870.
I have got a 2014 Mac Mini i5 2.6GHz with 16GB coming which will be my dedicated photography desktop machine. My Macbook Pro runs on Mojave and seems to be happy with V20.1 so I am OK when I travel.
I fear that the MacPro beast will need replacing once I get some more cash in the bank!
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@Jonathan,
Sure that a MacPro like yours (I guess it is a 3.1 ?) is getting slightly old.
But to avoid ruining your bank account, the 5.1 (mid-2010 or 2012) can be found in very decent shape on the second-hand market for 800-1500 euros, depending on its equipment. If that helps, I paid mine 1500, for a pristine machine, 2x 3,46GHz procs, 64 GB RAM.
Upgrade it with the Sapphire RX580 Pulse (+/- 200 euros), an USB3 PCIe card (50 euros) and Sonnet SATA3 PCIe card(s) (80/100 euros/) to insert SSDs and benefit from 2x 500 Mb/s read/write speed, and you'll have again a very capable machine for less than 2000 euros.
I keep it under Mojave as long as I can - this way I can still use Aperture for the cataloguing and sharing on iCloud Photos.
I would be well annoyed if I had to chose a replacement now - the new Mac Pro would be a dream - but not an affordable one.
And going for iMac (or iMac Pro, which is not *that* cheaper) would mean that I can't use my Eizo screen any longer (nor the SSD's installed in the MacPro 5.1 bays).0 -
Hi Claude
Ref "I have been in contact with PhaseOne Tech Support and I also need a machine that has SSEv4.2 extensions in the CPU. This means that my processors must be later than Nehalem so typically machines post 2010/2012."
Are you sure that is correct?
- I assume your processors precede 'Nehalem'?
(Mine is an mid 2010 Macpro, with twin Xeon Westmere X5690 processors, that definitely support SSE 4.2) - Nehalem processors support SSE 4.2 (as far as I know from their beginning in 2008)
- You can check if your CPU supports SSE 4.2 by launching terminal and typing this command:
sysctl -a | grep machdep.cpu.features
it will return a list of CPU features - this is mine:
machdep.cpu.features: FPU VME DE PSE TSC MSR PAE MCE CX8 APIC SEP MTRR PGE MCA CMOV PAT PSE36 CLFSH DS ACPI MMX FXSR SSE SSE2 SS HTT TM PBE SSE3 PCLMULQDQ DTES64 MON DSCPL VMX SMX EST TM2 SSSE3 CX16 TPR PDCM SSE4.1 SSE4.2 POPCNT AES PCID
So, as my CPU definitely supports SSE4.2, I'm convinced PhaseOne are incorrect over analysis (eg there may be additional or different hardware issues) and appear unwilling to escalate up the support tree. I'd be 'happy' (well not really 'happy') if they came back with additional detailed information, not just 'pointing' us to a document that only considers SSE4.2.
And with regard to GPU 'Metal' support, as indicated earlier, it is compliant:
Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily1 v3Regards
Les0 - I assume your processors precede 'Nehalem'?
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@Les
We have two threads intermixing here, the MP 3.1 or 5.1 from Jonathan and your own MP 5.1 :-)
We have the same configuration same x5690 processors, same RX580 card (is yours a Sapphire Pulse version ?), only you have more RAM. I have Mojave, you have High Sierra.
On my machine, C1P runs fine, not on yours.
If you have taken all the usual steps (Disk Utility, reset PRAM, fsck on boot, SMC reset) and all is fine, the only reason I see is that C1P 13.1 needs Mojave (and its firmware update) to run.
My own sysctl -a | grep machdep.cpu.features returns the following:
machdep.cpu.features: FPU VME DE PSE TSC MSR PAE MCE CX8 APIC SEP MTRR PGE MCA CMOV PAT PSE36 CLFSH DS ACPI MMX FXSR SSE SSE2 SS HTT TM PBE SSE3 PCLMULQDQ DTES64 MON DSCPL VMX SMX EST TM2 SSSE3 CX16 TPR PDCM SSE4.1 SSE4.2 POPCNT AES PCID
so, exactly the same...
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Hi Claude,
My machine is a MacPro3,1 but for all intents and purposes it is a 4,1 or 5,1.
It returns this response .. So NO to SSE4.2, Yes to SSE4.1 for it.
machdep.cpu.features: FPU VME DE PSE TSC MSR PAE MCE CX8 APIC SEP MTRR PGE MCA CMOV PAT PSE36 CLFSH DS ACPI MMX FXSR SSE SSE2 SS HTT TM PBE SSE3 DTES64 MON DSCPL VMX EST TM2 SSSE3 CX16 TPR PDCM SSE4.1
Les' machine exhibits similar problems to mine and he has SSE4.2 and better video card (Metal v non-Metal) so we are actually seeing a pattern here....
Seems to me that maybe there is something in a MacPro dual processor that causes the issue? I am not good enough in this area to comment but maybe....
My video card is now a RX580 like yours but it only has 2GB VRAM not 8GB. I should have done more diligent research on this before buying!! :-( Now I am wondering if I should try to get a 8GB version. All is not lost as the video runs better and my Preview viewing of PDF is better than with the Radeon 5870.
I am somewhat disappointed with the PhaseOne Tech Support attitude w.r.t. the CPU version.
My twin processor Xeon X5472 3.0GHz machine is a better chip for almost every computational test you throw at it than a i3 chip. However to rely on SSE4.2 that adds 6 instructions over SSE4.1 indicates to me that Phase One has needed to use one of the 6 extra commands found in SSE4.2
The differences between 4.1 and 4.2 are listed here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE4#SSE4.1
Intel technical document. https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/support/articles/000005779/processors.html
Without inspecting code I cant comment on why the Dev Team chose their route but as an ex-Systems Architect I would be asking my engineering team to make sure that the code used was reliant NOT on new sexy tech but as common a supported platform as possible.
So I would have allowed GPU use, but not forced it. Likewise I would have insisted that SSE4.1 was used unless it was impossible to do the task without use of SSE4.2. To me this shows a desire to move forward at pace but in haste! I wont comment on the fables about speed and haste.
Caveats can always be presented to customers as options for hardware upgrade!!
Re Les' questions.....
Are you sure that is correct?
- I assume your processors precede 'Nehalem'?
(Mine is an mid 2010 Macpro, with twin Xeon Westmere X5690 processors, that definitely support SSE 4.2)
My processors are X5472 (socket 771) (Harpertown) I will check naming and edit if I can discover family.
I was told by Tech Support it was i3 onwards. i3 was introduced when Intel first announced the retirement of the Core 2 in mid-2009, but the Core i3 was not official launched until January 04, 2010.
0 - I assume your processors precede 'Nehalem'?
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Hi Jonathan,
There are major differences between a 3.1 and a 4,1 or 5.1 which are very similar.
The 3.1 has much slower bus (SATA 3GB on PCie, if memory serves), and in the bays while SATA 6GB in PCie and SATA 3GB in the bays for a MP 4.1/5.1).So you will never be able to build a 4.1/5.1 equivalent starting from a 3.1 (that's also why I sold mine to get a 5.1)
For the rest, on coding and instructions, I am afraid I do not have the knowledge to follow you there.
@Les,
Since we have the same machine (but for the RAM), I would advice that your:
- Check that your RAM is compliant (1333 MHZ - but some put cheaper 1066MHz that were reported to work up to a certain point)
- Start in Safe Mode and see if that makes a difference
- Reset PRAM
- Reset SMC
- Upgrade to Mojave
Further, did you know that on a 4.1/5.1, the MacPro will run better with only 3 slots of RAM populated (except if you *really* need that much memory) ? Being a 3 channel memory access, 1 and 2 (5 and 6) have dedicated access, while 3 and 4 (7 and 8) must share a channel, which "slows down" the machine. If you remove the RAM in slots 4 and 8, you will still have plenty, and will see a performance gain.
EDIT1: corrected the SATA values
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Hi Claude,
Useful technical information on the MacPro3,1 v 5,1 architecture.
Do you have a reference url where I can read more? If you want to email to me then try knightsjonathan@gmail.com
I have been looking into the upgrade.
My update of the video card is disappointing that it does not give me Metal support in the 2GB version as opposed to that being present in the 8GB version. I never considered that they would not be the same. My bad assumption. Without Metal support I cannot update to Mojave.
In the longer term I will do an upgrade to a black dustbin 6,x or even possibly the newest silver MacPro.
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Having decided (in own mind) that the issues were not directly and only related to SSE4.2 and receiving no help from Phase1 technical support other than 'incompatible machine' and reference to SSE4.2, I was determined to continue my quest to resolve. And I remembered Adobe (Photoshop/LR) saying they will now only support 3 OS iterations - the current and 2 previous. So, encouraged by Claude (whose physical setup is virtually identical to mine, but running Mohave) whose system appears to be running well, I completed a total backup; created 2 additional Hi Sierra boot volumes (just in case...) and upgraded to Mohave (without any changes to my PC at all). As expected, my problems disappeared; thus illustrating my PC IS compatible. Just to be sure, I then reverted to High Sierra (via one of the additional boot volumes.. so a minor change). As expected my issues returned! So clearly related to the OS. Feeling brazen, I then updated to Catalina and my issues went away. With the bit between my teeth now, I reverted to High Sierra... and you've guessed it, the problems returned. So I'm convinced Phase1 (Capture One) have compiled the new system preferentially for the latest Mac OS's (no idea if PC users are having similar issues). I'm sticking with Catalina now, and looking forward to getting back to real editing of my images not fault finding!
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Please be aware that Catalina dropped support for 32 bits apps ...
Make a check under High Sierra or Mojave - run "Activity Monitor", and in the headers you must see "Process name, Memory, Threads, % CPU, etc ..." You should also see "Kind", and there: 64 bits or 32 bits. If it is not there, right click on that bar and add it from the drop-down menu.
If you still run 32-bits apps that you need - stick with Mojave until they are updated for Catalina
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Great news. Glad you are sorted Les.
My news ..... I have a new Mac Mini (2014) i5 16GB RAM, 1TB hard disk with Mojave and cloned my MacPro to it. Of course COP v20.1 runs on his machine.
I have the MacPro fully backed up and could apparently use the RX580 2GB that I have to upgrade to Mojave but I am apprehensive and am looking for a 8GB version. I might just have a go as I have a backup. If the 2GB card doesnt work then I can get the 8GB version and try again. If this works then I have Mojave which is my my desired MacOS anyway.
I dont like the idea of going to Catalina as it is 64bit only theoretically, and I have some old apps that I use which I am pretty sure will fail.
I wish I had all my Mac hardware available to me but that stuff is in Spain and I am in UK.
I want to test if this issue is down to SSE4.2 or Metal based as provided in Mojave or something else. They say that it runs on i3 machines using High Sierra! I think we need someone with such a machine.
Clearly PhaseOne dont test very thoroughly in house, as they cannot put their finger on the problem. The logs I sent should allow them to identify exactly what is the problem.
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I have the upgraded the MacMini MacOS from High Sierra to Mojave, then installed the COP v20.1 and it works fine.
In hindsight I should have tested my cloned drive from the MacPro in the Mac Mini. I can and will do this in the near future as I want to debug this properly. I want to find out if the non-running of COP v20.1 is due to....
1. The Harpertown Xenon X5472 CPUs which do not support SSE4.2 but do support SSE4.1 The difference between these two versions of SSE is 7 commands!
or 2. The MacOS which is base system requirement is really Mojave, not High Sierra, as claimed by PhaseOne.
or 3. They are using Metal programming in the COP v20.1 release and my GPU is not Metal supporting card.
My gut feeling and combining information from Les and Uwe I am favouring the idea that it is #2 but only by testing this will I get confirmation of this.
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@ Jonathan
There might be a confusion between the words "work" and "supported" for the graphic cards - I should have been more clear about this.
Your RX580 2GB will most probably "work". Meaning, it will give you an image, and could perhaps even be recognized by the system as a Radeon RX580 - I personally used an R9-380 (3GB) quite a long time with Sierra and above.
But it will not be "supported", meaning that you will have no boot screen, the system might not identify it as an RX580, but only as a chipset 58xx, AND, possibly the most important, you might not get all the whistles and bells like acceleration, de-aliasing, etc ... At least, not to their optimal capacity.
For me, the boot screen was the most important - and therefore i stayed with Apple's recommendation: a Sapphire (not another Brand) Radeon RX580 Pulse (not another type) with 8GB DDR5 (not another chip).
I must say it brings me quite a peace of mind and system stability when it comes to troubleshooting.
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I'm totally befuddled.
C1 20 and C1 21 run OK on my iMac Mid-2010 High Sierra, with Metal supported NVIDIA graphics card, but fail each time when patched with Mohave.
So, far from it running pants on High Sierra, it runs OK.
I've deactivated, uninstalled a few times now but still get the same result.
Any ideas?
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What Nvidia model of graphics card are you using?
You need to check if your processor supports SSE4.2. If not then there is a patch that can be applied that allows Mojave to run with a processor that only supports SSE4.1
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@Jonathan thank you for your question. From what I've read, all seems OK in these departments, but I'm obviously missing something or else the damn thing would be working :-/
The About this Mac info:
iMac (27-inch, Mid 2010)
3.2 GHz Intel Core i3
16 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675MX 4 GBSystem information shows:
Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675MX
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 4 GB
... etc.
Metal: Supported
Displays:
iMac:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 2560x1440 (QHD/WQHD - Wide Quad High Definition)
UI Looks like: 2560 x 1440
Framebuffer Depth: 24-Bit Colour (ARGB8888)
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported
Automatically Adjust Brightness: No
Connection Type: DisplayPortand the Terminal readout is:
machdep.cpu.features: FPU VME DE PSE TSC MSR PAE MCE CX8
APIC SEP MTRR PGE MCA CMOV PAT PSE36 CLFSH DS ACPI MMX
FXSR SSE SSE2 SS HTT TM PBE SSE3 DTES64 MON DSCPL VMX
EST TM2 SSSE3 CX16 TPR PDCM SSE4.1 SSE4.2 POPCNT PCIDSo ... hmmm
I got the iMac to allow Mohave with the dosdude patch software, the installed patches are:
Patch Updater
Software Update Patch
SIP Disabler Patch
Legacy Video Card Patch
Legacy Atheros WiFi Patch
Legacy Audio Patch
Night Shift Patch
News OpenCL PatchThese are the ones automatically selected on the post-OS Mohave installation routine.
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I am running my MacPro (2009) patched to Mojave with DosDude patches and it runs latest version of COP v21.0.2
I cant see why your machine doesnt run but unless PhaseOne provide some additional diagnostics many of these issues become very difficult to work through so it is just trial and error.
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Frustrating, isn’t it! I went back to my USB installer and re-installed the post installation patches, including the SSE4.1, which itself got updated on re-start with the SSE4.2 patch.
Now, the GPU does t show up on Mohave at all :-( though it still does if I boot into High Sierra.
I’m running out of willpower but will try another re-installation of Mohave from scratch (again)
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Thank you @Jonathan for helping me to retain a slight glimpse of hope.
I appear to have got around or fixed the issue.
- Restart back into High Sierra, then
- Restart into that Recovery Mode
- Use Terminal to disable the SIP (System Integrity Protection)
csrutil disable
- Restart
Then go through the whole process of re-installing Mohave over the volume it is already on.
At the Post-Installation Patch stage, I threw everything at it, Restarted, followed on-screen instructed and Restarted again (again)
At last, the NVIDIA started to show up on the About this Mac again.
First I tried Capture One 20 ... bated breath ... and yay, opened a catalog and was seeing the hardware acceleration from the NVIDIA.
Next, reinstalled Cap One 21 and everything now seems to be working OK. Microsoft and Adobe products also appear to be magically mended.
Was it the SIP change? Was it the reinstalling Movahe over rather than doing a clean installation? Was it throwing every patch I had on offer? Who knows!
It has only taken me since December 6th :-)
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