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Another locked thread

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19 comments

  • Drew Altdo
    Jim,
    I unlocked the thread. If you have more to add to the conversation, by all means please do so.
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  • Jim MSP
    [quote="Drew" wrote:
    Jim,
    I unlocked the thread. If you have more to add to the conversation, by all means please do so.

    Thank you.
    I just want to find a way to discuss photography, not software bugs and new cameras.
    The current culture of this user forum is centered on problems, not photography.

    I am hoping that there are more like me that use CO. I was hoping to hear from them.
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  • Peter Jones
    Yes Jim. You are quite correct. This forum is just too depressing to be intimately involved in its exchanges.

    But I have never come across photo software that is so full of bugs and idiosyncrasies. So PhaseOne should accept much of the 'blame'.

    I routinely come across snippets of information on how to get the most out of Adobe and other software. And unlike the Cap1 forum these articles are not trying to find workarounds to circumvent problems. They don't need to, because mature software like Adobe is well-tested before release and robust and reliable. So, for example, I have yet to see any article in a magazine that describes a particular feature of Cap1 and how to make the most of it. Perhaps because PhaseOne is forever tweaking Cap1 to fix another bug?

    Having said this, the fact is that Cap1 output tiffs carry a 'Cap1' colour signature that is unmatched elsewhere, in my experience. So it has its attractions! [If I want lens corrections I use PTLens.]

    However I now find myself making more use of LightZone to unravel as-shot raw files in preparation for the serious stuff.

    If I were PhaseOne I would be looking to a serious review of the purpose and function of their forums because as they stand they are a marketing disaster.

    Peter
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  • SFA
    Interesting observations Peter, though I'm not sure I agree with your observations.

    I don't feel there would be any purpose at the moment in covering all of them but two thoughts came to mind.

    Firstly ... I can't recall the last time I bought a Photography Oriented magazine. But then I no longer use any Adobe photoprocessing products since around V1.4 of LightRoom around the time I discovered LightZone. I assume Adobe products dominate the mags because they can be fairly sure that the word "Photoshop" on the cover is likely to shift a few copies. What surprises me is that so far the entire world does not seem expert in PS. Hence the need for "How to" articles.

    Secondly, much as I like LightZone trying and buying C1, at the end of V5 and then with V6, was interesting in that I could process high volume more quickly an still get very decent results without trying. It just seemed to 'work' for so many images that I might have spent ages with in LZ. That's not to say that LZ is defunct - far from it. Despite the age of its development it offers some features and approaches that I have not seen elsewhere in a single application.

    However I tend to keep it in reserve for when dealing with a particularly challenging (or perhaps poorly shot on my part) image that I feel, rightly or wrongly, would benefit from some extra time at the User Interface. Not, perhaps, better results - but results that are a little different.


    Grant Perkins
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="Jim MSP" wrote:
    I just want to find a way to discuss photography, not software bugs and new cameras.


    I don't know whether that's a legitimate aspiration on a forum dedicated to a piece of software, Jim - it seems entirely proper to me that one way or another discussions on here should be about Phase One products and their use.

    But I still maintain that the Windows/Mac division is a false one: this discussion for example, isn't a "Windows" discussion, but it's in the Windows forum simply because you had to post it somewhere; and I'm willing to bet that none of these (from today, from the Windows forum) are Windows-specific either:

    viewtopic.php?f=47&t=15799
    viewtopic.php?f=47&t=15800
    viewtopic.php?f=47&t=15796
    viewtopic.php?f=47&t=15795
    viewtopic.php?f=47&t=15787

    And it's like this all the time, in the Windows and Mac forums. They serve no useful purpose that I can see.

    Why is it not enough to have (say) a "Using Capture One" and a "Capture One Issues" forum? I'm willing to bet that this structure would be at least as effective at driving the right posts into the right categories as the current structure, which self-evidently does not do that, as the linked threads above amply demonstrate.

    And for thoroughness, a selection of recently active posts that aren't Mac-specific, from the Mac forum:

    viewtopic.php?f=46&t=14737
    viewtopic.php?f=46&t=15793
    viewtopic.php?f=46&t=15026
    viewtopic.php?f=46&t=15790
    viewtopic.php?f=46&t=15615

    A pattern which repeats itself every single day.
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  • Peter Jones
    May I respectfully suggest that THE most important means of categorising a post is to include full information on the product type+version+OS in the post heading. e.g. Cap1 Pro 7.1.3 Win7 Pro.

    Then, at least, those in PhaseOne who have full access and the expertise can collate like with like and browsers would be quite clear what is being discussed.

    Just a thought.

    Peter
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  • Drew Altdo
    As per viewtopic.php?f=47&t=15739#p74316
    … I'm open to suggestions here guys. 😄
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  • Peter Jones
    Hello Jim, Grant and Drew

    Taking Drew at his word we have a blank slate. So, here goes with my piece of chalk.

    1. All technical queries should be framed as Support Cases.

    2. Periodically (weekly?), PhaseOne should post information on the outcome of these Cases as an ongoing series of posts to the forum, for information and assistance to all users of Cap1.

    3. Periodically (2-monthly?), PhaseOne should post a road map and timescale of planned developments (new cameras and lenses, software developments, etc.) so that users of Cap1 be assured that matters of interest to them are being progressed. For example if I was fully committed to Cap1 I would need to know which recently-released cameras (and lenses – please!) are in the road map.

    4. The Windows and Mac forums should be merged and new rules/guidelines issued for contributors. The main purpose of the new forum should be to allow all Cap1 users to publish and exchange information on their particular ‘take’ on what Cap1 has to offer.

    5. Periodically (3-monthly?), there should be a PhaseOne-sponsored article in the forum that discusses specific image-processing workflows, Cap1-based. Examples include reclaiming highlights, the relative merits of tif-8 and tif-16 images and applications of the User Styles tab.

    In posting this I am simply trying to open the door. I have no links with PhaseOne, and Cap1 is just one of about half a dozen photo-software suites that I routinely use. Which leaves me somewhat ambivalent about each one, including Cap1!

    Let’s see what emerges as this thread develops.

    Peter
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  • Ulf Liljegren
    I see this as just another example where PO isn't really interested in its customer's opinions, and is clearly not a "market driven" company. Too bad.


    Jim, that is just plain silly.
    You are of course welcome to your opinion and it is a valid opinion.
    But your opinion might not match others.

    I see it this way:
    In most mail programs you can select to view mail by categories or you can get it as single mail list.

    I understand that you are a single mail kind of guy and don't want to group conversations.
    And that is fair... in your opinion.
    Best option would be a forum with dynamic interface. Unfortunately the framework we use don't allow for this.

    How stupid of me to think that I, a Windows user, could learn something from a photographer that uses a Mac.


    There is absolutely nothing preventing you from reading the Mac forum and comment in it.

    Right now there are not many other opinions about this purposed change and you are the first to comment about this even though this forum has been active for many years.

    We want to hear from far more clients before considering any changes.
    And also suggestions on what alt. forums we could setup.
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  • Ulf Liljegren
    Hi Peter

    1. Yes

    2. With major issues / solutions we try to to notifications or stickies. We can surly be better at this no doubt.
    As this is a user to user forum, users are of course welcome to share findings.

    3. We both know that this will not happen. No company in the world does this. Sometime they post ideas, but never fixed roadmaps.

    4. We will not merge the forums until the software has been discontinued and amount of post are relatively low (See Capture One 6 thread) but please come up with alt. forums you would like to see.

    5. This does exist here:
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  • Peter Jones
    Hello Ulf

    Well, what a speedy response - thank you!

    Taking 2 and 5 together (and thanks for reminding me about the blog) I don't recall being alerted to new blog postings. I only ever check the forum and perhaps Cap1 could post a blog topic and link there? I seem to recall that Cap1 7.1.6 suddenly appeared in a user post - nothing 'official' from PhaseOne. Incidentally, I have had no problems with 7.1.6, which is very reassuring.

    As regards 4, I think there are enough forums! I really don't see a combined forum being so difficult to organise. As for the number of posts, this is kept artificially high simply because Cap1 users are using the forum rather than the Support Case route. More discipline required here, I think?!

    As regards 3. Sorry, you are incorrect. For some time now DxO has been open with their road map. It is a good marketing ploy because it can assist photographers with a purchasing decision - as I can vouch for myself. And so I have remained a DxO user over the years, despite the on-cost of upgrading regularly. And of course Adobe trial planned new software with 'Beta' status, including camera/lens profile updates. I'm sorry, but it is PhaseOne that is out of line in my experience.

    To be candid, I have no idea what PhaseOne is working on, or where your priorities lie. All I can say is that I have seen many forum posts raising quite reasonable questions and suggestions for the future that are then 'officially' deflected with a 'no comment' stance. This does nothing to engender product loyalty, I suggest.

    I am not hopeful of a significant change by PhaseOne because very few forum users are contributing to this discussion. So thanks again for yours!

    Peter
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  • Jim MSP
    Hi Ulf,
    I understand high tech "market driven" companies. I managed one that combined hardware and software and that was # 1 in its product space.
    [quote="Ulf" wrote:


    There is absolutely nothing preventing you from reading the Mac forum and comment in it.

    Simply time and the desire not to sort through all the problems and issues that effect the Mac software.

    [quote="Ulf" wrote:


    Right now there are not many other opinions about this purposed change and you are the first to comment about this even though this forum has been active for many years.
    .


    Perhaps that's because so many other users have given up and have gone to other forums. I myself visit 2 other forums that have CO discussions.

    [quote="Ulf" wrote:


    We want to hear from far more clients before considering any changes.
    And also suggestions on what alt. forums we could setup.

    Locking threads seems to go against this desire.
    I think PO could benefit from a real market research campaign on this topic.
    You have the email list of all your users; simply use it.
    Once again - my suggestion is rather simple. Separate issues and problems from actually using the software to its fullest.
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  • Drew Altdo
    [quote="Jim MSP" wrote:
    my suggestion is rather simple. Separate issues and problems from actually using the software to its fullest.


    Any others of the same opinion?
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="Drew" wrote:
    Any others of the same opinion?


    Yep, I am.
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  • NNN634578809887629371
    Me too
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  • Florin Coter
    YES!!! Jim is 200% right!!!!
    F.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="pkurhieuyr" wrote:
    YES!!! Jim is 200% right!!!!
    F.

    Hi F.

    Just for the record: have you noticed the request from this thread is already fulfilled and a new forum is life?
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  • Florin Coter
    Hi Paul,

    Yes, I did.

    Nevertheless, I wanted to give a thumb up to Jim. No harm done, I assume...

    F.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="pkurhieuyr" wrote:
    Hi Paul,

    Yes, I did.

    Nevertheless, I wanted to give a thumb up to Jim. No harm done, I assume...

    Fine by me. Enjoy!
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