Capture One 4 - user experience report
I am a Capture One user for several years now, and recently I've been evaluating version 4 from the earliest betas to the release version. My post concentrates on the user experience weaknesses, as I never found any problems with the image quality of Phase One products, and version 4 is no exception: images are sharp, detailed and vibrant.
The user experience of the new version is horrible for a longtime Capture One user: the good old (keyboard based) workflow is broken, the interface is cluttered and hard on the eyes and the general reaction and redraw speeds are extremely slow. I hoped that the release version would be free of these problems (maybe I should have reported much earlier).
My PC configuration running both v3.7 and v4 is the following: Intel P4 3.6GHz, 2GB RAM, 3 separate 7200rpm drives for OS, VMEM/TEMP and photos, Windows XP SP2, NVidia Geforce 6800 Ultra, latest drivers for all devices. I have tested the GUI slowness on my Core2Duo laptop and it's barely any better.
While I welcome the new features of Capture One 4, the badly designed user interface makes it unusable for me currently. My findings are below.
The best thing in v3.7 was that I could evaluate and tag a day of shooting very fast: my left hand was over CTRL-R and CTRL-T for quick rotation and tagging, while my right hand was using the mouse wheel to select the next image or go back one.
In v4 this takes much longer: there is no fast and easy way to rotate (CTRL-ALT-R is hard to press), to rate an image I should lift my left hand to reach for the number keys and the mouse wheel no longer steps to the next image, it instead scrolls the thumbnail window, which is not useful: I have to move and click the mouse each time I want the next image.
Working with images is much slower thanks to the slowed down reaction of the sliders and almost every available function. Even though thumbnail generation and processing speed is higher, the general feel of v4 is much slower and clumsier than v3.7.
The user interface is also harder on the eyes: the control panels are too dark so they dissolve into the image area, the good visual indicators from the past (red checkmark and green dot) are missing and the rating stars are making the thumbnail screen cluttered if you use 3 columns like I do.
There are a couple of welcome features, especially Variants, HDR and the Quick panel, which would be even better if it was editable as to which controls to include.
- mouse wheel for image selection should be settable in prefs (instead of thumbnail window scrolling)
- missing: indication of image previously developed (green/yellow dot was very good visually)
- missing: image tagging (red checkmark was very good visually)
- ctrl-r for rotation would be more sensible (reset is used less often, ctrl-alt-r is hard to press)
- ctrl-t and ctrl-r was fast and easy to operate with one hand
- grey stars make the thumbnail screen cluttered if 2 or more columns used
- red tag checkmark was much easier on eyes than grey stars
- user interface is too dark, control panels' and thumbnail backround brightness level should be selectable in prefs
- control panel headers are too thin: Auto and Presets are hard to click
- sliders are very slow to react, they should be decoupled from redraw (v3.7 sliders were fluid even if the action itself was slow)
- changing between images is much slower (v3.7 instant, v4 about 1/2 sec)
- reaction time for scrolling and zooming is much slower
- exposure warning is much slower (v3.7 instant, v4 about 1/2 sec)
The user experience of the new version is horrible for a longtime Capture One user: the good old (keyboard based) workflow is broken, the interface is cluttered and hard on the eyes and the general reaction and redraw speeds are extremely slow. I hoped that the release version would be free of these problems (maybe I should have reported much earlier).
My PC configuration running both v3.7 and v4 is the following: Intel P4 3.6GHz, 2GB RAM, 3 separate 7200rpm drives for OS, VMEM/TEMP and photos, Windows XP SP2, NVidia Geforce 6800 Ultra, latest drivers for all devices. I have tested the GUI slowness on my Core2Duo laptop and it's barely any better.
While I welcome the new features of Capture One 4, the badly designed user interface makes it unusable for me currently. My findings are below.
GENERAL WORKFLOW IMPRESSIONS
The best thing in v3.7 was that I could evaluate and tag a day of shooting very fast: my left hand was over CTRL-R and CTRL-T for quick rotation and tagging, while my right hand was using the mouse wheel to select the next image or go back one.
In v4 this takes much longer: there is no fast and easy way to rotate (CTRL-ALT-R is hard to press), to rate an image I should lift my left hand to reach for the number keys and the mouse wheel no longer steps to the next image, it instead scrolls the thumbnail window, which is not useful: I have to move and click the mouse each time I want the next image.
Working with images is much slower thanks to the slowed down reaction of the sliders and almost every available function. Even though thumbnail generation and processing speed is higher, the general feel of v4 is much slower and clumsier than v3.7.
The user interface is also harder on the eyes: the control panels are too dark so they dissolve into the image area, the good visual indicators from the past (red checkmark and green dot) are missing and the rating stars are making the thumbnail screen cluttered if you use 3 columns like I do.
There are a couple of welcome features, especially Variants, HDR and the Quick panel, which would be even better if it was editable as to which controls to include.
CONTROL PROBLEMS
- mouse wheel for image selection should be settable in prefs (instead of thumbnail window scrolling)
- missing: indication of image previously developed (green/yellow dot was very good visually)
- missing: image tagging (red checkmark was very good visually)
- ctrl-r for rotation would be more sensible (reset is used less often, ctrl-alt-r is hard to press)
- ctrl-t and ctrl-r was fast and easy to operate with one hand
VISUAL PROBLEMS
- grey stars make the thumbnail screen cluttered if 2 or more columns used
- red tag checkmark was much easier on eyes than grey stars
- user interface is too dark, control panels' and thumbnail backround brightness level should be selectable in prefs
- control panel headers are too thin: Auto and Presets are hard to click
INTERFACE SLOWNESS
- sliders are very slow to react, they should be decoupled from redraw (v3.7 sliders were fluid even if the action itself was slow)
- changing between images is much slower (v3.7 instant, v4 about 1/2 sec)
- reaction time for scrolling and zooming is much slower
- exposure warning is much slower (v3.7 instant, v4 about 1/2 sec)
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I agree. 0 -
In case you have not caught on, things have been sliding down hill for years, this release introduced new bugs that were not in the betas ! P1 has lost the plot as far as dev is concerned, but the PR dept still has an acc and free hand to make nice write ups.
In the latest newsletter, the new version is well recieved, by who I am not sure, but it is reported as so to the lemmings...0 -
I also miss these two in your review:
- missing: indication of image previously developed (green/yellow dot was very good visually)
- missing: image tagging (red checkmark was very good visually)0 -
I just found out - after trying to copy and backup my RAW files from their usual location - that Capture One broke with the previous habit of storing it's settings and previews at a central place/
I have to voice my disappointment over this issue, since this is yet another way Phase One distrupting my workflow: I have to adapt all my previous backup and storage routines.
A little less annoying but still worthwile to mention is the fact that this new approach slows down my computer since I've been using separate hard drives and arrays for different kinds of temporary files, this is now gone: Capture One 4 stresses the same array with the RAW files with all temporary IO.
I would welcome an option to set the preview and settings locations separately in Preferences, since I would very much store and backup the settings along with the RAW files while I would let the preview files reside at a central temporary location.0 -
Just checked 4.01 and there is still no mouse wheel switching between images, still no cleanup / location setup of preview cache.
Is this how Phase One normally operates?0 -
[quote="gkovacs" wrote:
Just checked 4.01 and there is still no mouse wheel switching between images, still no cleanup / location setup of preview cache.
Is this how Phase One normally operates?
If you hover the mouse over the window with the thumbnail images, you can scroll through them.
I use a tablet based workflow (Wacom Intuos3) and I really like how C1v4 has been implemented. Hover my cursor over items and use the big wheel on my Microsoft keyboard to scroll through images or adjust sliders etc. ... very nice.0 -
[quote="gkovacs" wrote:
I just found out - after trying to copy and backup my RAW files from their usual location - that Capture One broke with the previous habit of storing it's settings and previews at a central place/
I have to voice my disappointment over this issue, since this is yet another way Phase One distrupting my workflow: I have to adapt all my previous backup and storage routines.
A little less annoying but still worthwile to mention is the fact that this new approach slows down my computer since I've been using separate hard drives and arrays for different kinds of temporary files, this is now gone: Capture One 4 stresses the same array with the RAW files with all temporary IO.
I would welcome an option to set the preview and settings locations separately in Preferences, since I would very much store and backup the settings along with the RAW files while I would let the preview files reside at a central temporary location.
Just copy the entire folder (images + C1 folder) ... I find this very flexible. Seems like a pretty trivial change to backup approach.0 -
I'm not expert, but I started with C1 on RAW in 03 and loved it. I finally migrated to Bibble, but coudl not take their inconsistent colors. I wandered back to C1 for a while, but ACR 4.x has won me back. As a C1 user I was entitled to 4.01 and have been trying it now for a few days, WOW, what a mess. The UI whie trying to go after the Lightroom crowd seems incomplete. The preferecnes settinsg are lacking simple settings for cache location and cleanup. I specifically move and then exclude the cache location form my data backups, now C1 is polluting my data drives. The color/camera profile management is lacking. I can't beleive this is the update we waited years for as the competition has flown right by C1. Maybe after 6-12 months of release they'll get the kins out fo it, but by then I suspect many of us will have moved on and won't be looking back. 0 -
"Bill" wrote: Just copy the entire folder (images + C1 folder) ... I find this very flexible. Seems like a pretty trivial change to backup approach.
Sure, if you want gigs of useless previews cluttering up your backup media.
Come on, Bill, you work for Phase One, right?0 -
[quote="EDIPhotography" wrote:
"Bill" wrote: Just copy the entire folder (images + C1 folder) ... I find this very flexible. Seems like a pretty trivial change to backup approach.
Sure, if you want gigs of useless previews cluttering up your backup media.
Come on, Bill, you work for Phase One, right?
No, I don't work for PO. But, I do have professional level programming skills and don't have any problem filtering out or deleting the previews when it is desirable. Everyone's requirements are different ... I feel that disk space is pretty cheap and I like to keep previews around for an extended period of time. I can understand how this problem would be a pain for others. PO needs to offer something that makes it easy for people to clean up their preview areas when they want. It would be great if it was a retention value associated with a given folder (with a default value).0 -
Hello, this is my first post! 😊
I am a new Capture One user and this looked a good thread to reply to, to give some perspective to the discussion from a new user. I have never used an earlier (pre-V4) version of Capture One so I cannot comment on that and I am not comparing. But I do love the interface of Capture One V4.
I have recently tried Lightroom, Capture NX and some other high-end tools back in my pre-press days, and I've been using Photoshop since Version 1.0 (must be close to 20 years now). In my opinion, none of them comes close to the simplicity, effectiveness, user-centred and task-focussed interface of C1 V4. I feel I speak with at least some authority as a user-interface designer and photographer.
C1 V4 is not perfect of course (in fact the reason I just joined up here is to try and find answers to one or two minor issues) however, it is without doubt one of the easiest professional software tools I have ever had the pleasure of using. It took me just minutes to get into the groove of using C1, but Lightroom and Capture NX (quite apart from its poor colour handling) will require weeks to get on top of, if I can be bothered. Clutter and feature-bloat is what they seem to do best.
For me - whether or not V4 is better or worse than V3 - the C1 software is exceptionally good from both a workflow and a user-interface design perspective.
Harry0 -
I am a new photographer and a new user to CaptureOne 4.x. I came from ACR 4.x with Photoshop CS3.
Granted, I have some issues with C1 4.x, but I do welcome the UI facelift from 3.7.x
Overall, I like C1 4 and it suits my needs and my workflow.
Cons: lack of deleting previews/cache option like 3.7.x; ability to not reset the counter during import because I load my RAWs from multiple CF cards and I'd like all of my RAWs to be stored in the same folder even though they come from different CF cards. No renaming feature.
Pros: good and simple UI. I like the added new features like the HDR took. Photos look good (processed) straight out of the camera.
I am a new and happy customer, but I'd be content if P1 listen to their users about what the users want in new software development!
Best regards,
Ron0 -
Hi,
I too am not satisfied with 4.0, however, I can't go back to 3x because I'm using Windows' Vista. I find that I cannot process an image under OUTPUT/ PROCESS SUMMARY/PROCESS. I tried RAW canon and nikon images and nothing happens when I press the PROCESS button. Anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong?
Jim0 -
[quote="jim43" wrote:
I too am not satisfied with 4.0, however, I can't go back to 3x because I'm using Windows' Vista. Jim
Jim,
Why can't you use your v3 on Vista. It works perfectly well for me and everyone else I know!
Iain0 -
[quote="jim43" wrote:
Hi,
I too am not satisfied with 4.0, however, I can't go back to 3x because I'm using Windows' Vista. I find that I cannot process an image under OUTPUT/ PROCESS SUMMARY/PROCESS. I tried RAW canon and nikon images and nothing happens when I press the PROCESS button. Anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong?
Jim
As can run CO3.7.x on Vista very well as Iain states. Use the instructions in a knowledgebase article on PO web site.
In 4.0.x you cannot process. Have you started the process queue on the Batch tool tab?0 -
I'm not sure what's going with v4.x. Last night I tried to go back to v3.7.8 but the install would not run on Vista. This morning I started v4.x and I got a message asking if I wanted to batch process images. I responded yes and it stated CS3 and processed images. Now the PROCESS button works!
I leave my PC on so it was not an issue of a restart. Prior to this morning I would load raw images into v4.x then make adjustments to one of the imported images. I would press the PROCESS button under the OUTPUT tab and nothing would happen ( it would not show the orange progress bar or start CS3 with the processed image)
I assume I did something within v4.x that prevented processing the image. However, if thats the case then v4.x should have given me a message as to why it cannot process the image.0 -
[quote="jim43" wrote:
I'm not sure what's going with v4.x. Last night I tried to go back to v3.7.8 but the install would not run on Vista.
Jim
Right-click on the installation file, select properties and select 'compatibility', then select 'run as administrator' and 'run this program in compatibility for Windows XP'.
When installed, make sure you select 'run as administrator' in the same way for the executable otherwise you'll get system files put in the wrong place.
Iain0 -
As an existing C1 PRO user I'm also very dissapointed with the changes that have been made to v4 and which will obviously be the basis of any PRO version. It's kind of a slap in the face to all those existing users who have come to rely on C1 PRO.
My biggest complaint is also regarding the way preview and individual settings files have now been scattered. Also, it is no longer possible to archive/restore the settings files through the application. The lack of virtually any configuration settings amd that it's slower to make adjustments to files is also a worry.
Of even greater concern is the attitude of Phase One which (based on a comment I read in another post, from a Phase One staff member) seems to be that new users seem to like it so what does it matter that the existing ones don't and that they just need to get used to it.
Well, I've just purchased a license for Bibble Pro and I'm certainly going to have a good look at the latest DPP again because I don't see a very bright future for C1 PRO when that does get upgraded.
Oh, and I also have the 'black line at the bottom of the 40D image problem' which is a know bug with 3.7.8. With no idea when that's going to get fixed, all support could suggest was that I start to use v4 (which uses a different conversion engine). I don't think so.
JJ0 -
Hi JJ,
Although I understand and agree with some of your concerns, I suggest that you do not judge too early. Let's see how CO4 Pro comes forward. I think it is better to compare Pro-to-Pro if you understand what I mean.
Storing preview and settings files along with raw files is probably here to stay. New for Windows users, common to Mac users of CO, it is a strategic choice PO made some years ago. Some like it, some not. A maintenance option should remove a lot of the pain for current CO3.x/Win users.
Setting configuration options (aka Preferences) and easier adjustment copying are a few of the main feature requests. Again, let's see how PO deals with that when CO4 Pro is released.
The attitude concern I do not share with you. My opinion is still more positive and based on own experience.
Always good to try other software. A valuable experience which made me stick with CO so far (both Bibble Pro and DPP have been in the mix here).
Good luck.0 -
[quote="Paul Steunebrink" wrote:
Although I understand and agree with some of your concerns, I suggest that you do not judge too early. Let's see how CO4 Pro comes forward. I think it is better to compare Pro-to-Pro if you understand what I mean.
You mean like comparing v3 LE with v4? Not much hope for the Pro version then![quote="Paul Steunebrink" wrote:
Setting configuration options (aka Preferences) and easier adjustment copying are a few of the main feature requests. Again, let's see how PO deals with that when CO4 Pro is released.
Again, it seems like you've settled for the feature set in the current v4, Paul, with the usual 'let's wait and see what the Pro version brings before we complain too much' approach.
I'm sorry to repeat myself again, but we are still in the position that there are many 'missing' features that were in LE that are not in v4. It shouldn't be a 'Pro issue'. It should be about PO listening to the very common complaints about the important missing 3 or 4 features and bring v4 somewhere up to the standard they had already achieved with v3 LE.
Iain0 -
Hi Iain,
For me there are two different discussions here IMHO.
First, there is a comparison between CO3 and 4. I think it is fair to compare CO3 LE with with current CO4 instead of CO3 Pro. I agreed with JJ on most features he missed or was not happy about and it is good you to let Phase One now that CO4 is missing the ball at some important points. My message to JJ as CO3 Pro user was not to shut the door to fast before CO4 Pro is released (hopefully for his own benefit).
Second, regarding the current CO4 feature set: I am not settled for that. I definitely hope and expect improvement which will surface when CO4 Pro releases (with some of them slipping back into the light version). I regard the current light version as not feature complete or PO's marketing department intends to make a shift in feature differences between versions compared to CO3 LE/Pro (note that some specific CO3 Pro features can be found in CO4 already). In short: I have postponed my final judgement till CO4 Pro arrives. For that reason and for my personal taste it might appear that I respond more modest to complaints. And for reasons of personal health, I left the 'angry young man mode' behind me for some years, therefore responding less fierce.
I feel we are very much in line with our opinions re. CO3/4, we express them differently, I think. That's fine with me and I hope that is mutual. Thank you.0 -
Paul,
I hope that I too left the 'angry young man' syndrome behind many years ago, but that doesn't stop me from still feeling annoyed about the whole v4 thing.
It's not often that I get annoyed about software, I can assure you! Still I have to agree with many posters opinion on PO. Never have I come across a more arrogant attitude towards customers. I know that in the general scheme of life, a raw converter doesn't feature very highly, but I am still amazed after many months of betas, and the final release that PO totally ignored the requests of many people about 3 or 4 (trivial) features that were missing from v4 cf v3LE that made the workflow so great.
Now, the fact that there aren't many posts on this any more means 2 things:
- the people who felt let down have all gone away, probably to the (now) vastly superior Lightroom
- PO are happy because most of the complaining has gone. (They apparently don't care about losing loyal curtomers, as long as new ones are happy, and the fuss goes away.)
Personally, I still occasionally use v4 but not to the extent I previously used v3 and I have now moved on to other tools for my main work as I'm sure many previous loyal PO customers have.
Hopefully, that was not 'too fierce'! 😂
Iain0 -
[quote="imacken" wrote:
[...]
Hopefully, that was not 'too fierce'! 😂
Iain
No, it was clear and to the point. Thanks.0 -
About a month ago I too noticed that much of the "complaining" comments had diminished. I figured it was because:
1. People gave up and moved on to some other processor; or
2. People gave up with "complaining", figuring it wasn't doing any good and they were just wasting their time offering feedback; or
3. People were just waiting for the next "major" update to 4.0 (or more specifically 4.0 Pro); or
4. People were happy with 4.0.
For me it was a combination of 2 and 3. I have been playing around with other processors and have not ruled them out, and I can only say that I am about 65% happy with 4.0. I just hope PO is not sitting back and figuring that fewer "complaints" over the past couple months means people are happy with 4.0.0 -
Version 4 is just plain awful. Glad I got the product key with a memory card, as I would be annoyed if I had had to pay for this. 0 -
I am with 3 and 4. For my needs 4.0 is vastly superior to LR. I have been trying to feel comfortable with LR for many months but still not happy. Maybe once upon a time I will understand why it is so superior. 0 -
Thomas,
It's hard to compare CO with LR. They are 2 very different animals. CO is a simple RC which historically has had great workflow and excellent IQ.
LR is so much more. It is a photo library management tool with excellent DAM facilities, a RAW converter (with many more tools to hand than CO), a slideshow module, a print module and an excellent website building module with lots of support from 3rd parties for templates.
Out of interest, what was it that you didn't like about LR?
Iain0 -
[quote="trivets12" wrote:
Version 4 is just plain awful. Glad I got the product key with a memory card, as I would be annoyed if I had had to pay for this.
Same for me.0 -
[quote="Tom C." wrote:
[quote="trivets12" wrote:
Version 4 is just plain awful. Glad I got the product key with a memory card, as I would be annoyed if I had had to pay for this.
Same for me.
On this User-to-User forum we help each other voluntarily. Please be more specific if you have a problem. Generic complaints are not helpful for any visitor. Thank you.0 -
On this User-to-User forum we help each other voluntarily. Please be more specific if you have a problem. Generic complaints are not helpful for any visitor. Thank you.
It is my personal user opinion based on my own comparison between c1, silkypix and LR.
And no, I have no problems with c1 4.0 any more because I decided to remove it from my hd.0
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