Olympus E-M1 Support soon?
Will it be long please Mr CaptureOne?
I don't know whether to start learning C1- 7 or not. 😕
Cheers,
Don
I don't know whether to start learning C1- 7 or not. 😕
Cheers,
Don
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Phase One doesn't pre-announce. 0 -
I'm hoping Olympus E-M1 will be supported very soon, too. 0 -
Best course of action is ask for raw file support in a support case. This will assure logging and prioritising. 0 -
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
Best course of action is ask for raw file support in a support case. This will assure logging and prioritising.
Why make your customers submit a support case for this? You know which new cameras have been released and you should add support for them as soon as you can. Your competitors add support for new cameras without relying on their customers for notification. I was hoping to see support for the Fuji X-A1 (on shelves weeks ago) in 7.1.5 and was disappointed to find it was not added. Do you think your customers haven't noticed how much longer it takes C1 to support new cameras?0 -
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
Best course of action is ask for raw file support in a support case. This will assure logging and prioritising.
Why make your customers submit a support case for this? You know which new cameras have been released and you should add support for them as soon as you can. Your competitors add support for new cameras without relying on their customers for notification. I was hoping to see support for the Fuji X-A1 (on shelves weeks ago) in 7.1.5 and was disappointed to find it was not added. Do you think your customers haven't noticed how much longer it takes C1 to support new cameras?
Dear user,
You are not my customer; I am a customer like you. This is a user-to-user forum. Phase One has their support process set up as described and as a peer (and certified Phase One user) I directed you to this solution.
For any suggestion and complaints you like direct response from Phase One, best course of action is … (you guess) a support case.0 -
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
Best course of action is ask for raw file support in a support case. This will assure logging and prioritising.
Why make your customers submit a support case for this? You know which new cameras have been released and you should add support for them as soon as you can. Your competitors add support for new cameras without relying on their customers for notification. I was hoping to see support for the Fuji X-A1 (on shelves weeks ago) in 7.1.5 and was disappointed to find it was not added. Do you think your customers haven't noticed how much longer it takes C1 to support new cameras?
Have you considered writing to Fuji and demanding that they give some cameras (more than one - there may be variations in quality) to Phase One (and all of the other RAW converter tool creators as well, just to be fair to everyone) so that they can perform the work you expect. Maybe they could pay for it too?
Or you could just use the tools provided by Fuji. If you feel they are inadequate then you should demand an better product from Fuji and see how long it takes to arrive. That would be a fair comparison.
Or was your post intended to be some sort of amusement along the lines of "we know manufacturers X, Y and Z will be releasing new cameras in the next year and I am disappointed that you do not already have support in your last 3 releases ..."?
If so it was a joke too subtle for me.
Grant Perkins0 -
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
Best course of action is ask for raw file support in a support case. This will assure logging and prioritising.
Why make your customers submit a support case for this? You know which new cameras have been released and you should add support for them as soon as you can. Your competitors add support for new cameras without relying on their customers for notification. I was hoping to see support for the Fuji X-A1 (on shelves weeks ago) in 7.1.5 and was disappointed to find it was not added. Do you think your customers haven't noticed how much longer it takes C1 to support new cameras?
Dear user,
You are not my customer; I am a customer like you. This is a user-to-user forum. Phase One has their support process set up as described and as a peer (and certified Phase One user) I directed you to this solution.
For any suggestion and complaints you like direct response from Phase One, best course of action is … (you guess) a support case.
Sorry that I was confused by the big PHASE ONE logo under your name; it gave me the impression you were representing them. As a fellow user, do you have an answer to my original questions: Why does Phase One require users to submit a request for camera support when competing applications add new cameras without prompt from users? Why does it take PhaseOne so much longer to provide support for new cameras than other competing applications?0 -
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
...
Why does Phase One require users to submit a request for camera support when competing applications add new cameras without prompt from users? Why does it take PhaseOne so much longer to provide support for new cameras than other competing applications?
I think it has to do with quality and limited resources. Quality takes time and Phase One needs at least one camera in-house to profile. This makes them dependent on cooperation of manufacturers and that sometimes takes time.
Regarding support request: you do not need or have to do that. And for mainstream brands/models support will face eventually. Regard this route as optional. Phase One support staff records any request and more requests prioritises a specific model. This is more relevant for any model beyond the mainstream brands. It will also tell Phase One where to put their resources regarding new models. My vision is that you can take advantage of this option.
My 2 cts.0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
Best course of action is ask for raw file support in a support case. This will assure logging and prioritising.
Why make your customers submit a support case for this? You know which new cameras have been released and you should add support for them as soon as you can. Your competitors add support for new cameras without relying on their customers for notification. I was hoping to see support for the Fuji X-A1 (on shelves weeks ago) in 7.1.5 and was disappointed to find it was not added. Do you think your customers haven't noticed how much longer it takes C1 to support new cameras?
Have you considered writing to Fuji and demanding that they give some cameras (more than one - there may be variations in quality) to Phase One (and all of the other RAW converter tool creators as well, just to be fair to everyone) so that they can perform the work you expect. Maybe they could pay for it too?
Or you could just use the tools provided by Fuji. If you feel they are inadequate then you should demand an better product from Fuji and see how long it takes to arrive. That would be a fair comparison.
Or was your post intended to be some sort of amusement along the lines of "we know manufacturers X, Y and Z will be releasing new cameras in the next year and I am disappointed that you do not already have support in your last 3 releases ..."?
If so it was a joke too subtle for me.
Grant Perkins
Your defensive rant seems to have completely missed the mark on all the above points. Fuji has nothing to do with this and I am not making an unreasonable request, like supporting a camera long before it is released.0 -
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
Have you considered writing to Fuji and demanding that they give some cameras (more than one - there may be variations in quality) to Phase One (and all of the other RAW converter tool creators as well, just to be fair to everyone) so that they can perform the work you expect. Maybe they could pay for it too?
Or you could just use the tools provided by Fuji. If you feel they are inadequate then you should demand an better product from Fuji and see how long it takes to arrive. That would be a fair comparison.
Or was your post intended to be some sort of amusement along the lines of "we know manufacturers X, Y and Z will be releasing new cameras in the next year and I am disappointed that you do not already have support in your last 3 releases ..."?
If so it was a joke too subtle for me.
Grant Perkins
Your defensive rant seems to have completely missed the mark on all the above points. Fuji has nothing to do with this and I am not making an unreasonable request, like supporting a camera long before it is released.
Actually I was being serious though without much hope of success for anyone achieving a positive response from the manufacturers.
Obviously I disagree with your view of things and your expectations and I really don't think of what I wrote as being a "rant". However, if it is a "rant" in your eyes then I would assume that the style and tone of your message would also qualify as a rant. If mine is 'defensive' then yours must be 'offensive' - in the sense of 'attacking' I hasten to add just in case you take offence. In which case I have to wonder why you expect an entirely independent company to rush a new release of their product to market just because another completely unrelated company has released a new product and you have chosen to become an early adopter.
Quite how you can write "Fuji has nothing to do with this" when you clearly mention the Fuji X-A1 in your original post leaves me rather puzzled.
More to the point this is primarily a User to User forum. If you wish to add your voice to the support for a particular product to be included in Capture One (or any other Phase One developed software) the most effective way to do it, as has often been mentioned, is to create a support request in order help Phase understand the interest in specific products amongst their customers and to have some input to influence the utilisation of resources and availability within the development plan.
That is a repeat of what Paul Steunebrink suggested.
In answer to your more recent question about "Why does it take so long ..." ... you may need to consider that the design of the software may be very different to other products making it more complicated to provide the support that the designers feel is necessary to provide the quality they set out to achieve. Also that availability of equipment to test may not always be easy to obtain, especially in advance of release. Another factor might be how eventual availability fits into a release schedule.
It is not at all unusual for new releases to remain unsupported for some time in third party products. Even Adobe with their broad graphics market presence and potential to influence the manufacturers do not always have support presented for all products in what some of the customer market might think of as a necessary response time to a new product release. Moreover I suspect that the recent trend produce more and more camera/lens combinations that rely on software to correct (or perhaps create) an image offering any quality at all will have made the task of providing third party support more complicated and potentially more susceptible to complaints from users if the 'translation' is not to their liking. One has to assume that the manufacturers making the RAW files available is a response to users who dislike the results they can achieve using JPG files (or whatever is on offer in camera from the manufacturer). I wonder if the manufacturers are inundated with complaints about that? How could we find out?
I hope you take this in the positive spirit that it is intended to convey.
Grant Perkins0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
Actually I was being serious though without much hope of success for anyone achieving a positive response from the manufacturers.
Obviously I disagree with your view of things and your expectations and I really don't think of what I wrote as being a "rant". However, if it is a "rant" in your eyes then I would assume that the style and tone of your message would also qualify as a rant. If mine is 'defensive' then yours must be 'offensive' - in the sense of 'attacking' I hasten to add just in case you take offence. In which case I have to wonder why you expect an entirely independent company to rush a new release of their product to market just because another completely unrelated company has released a new product and you have chosen to become an early adopter.
Quite how you can write "Fuji has nothing to do with this" when you clearly mention the Fuji X-A1 in your original post leaves me rather puzzled.
More to the point this is primarily a User to User forum. If you wish to add your voice to the support for a particular product to be included in Capture One (or any other Phase One developed software) the most effective way to do it, as has often been mentioned, is to create a support request in order help Phase understand the interest in specific products amongst their customers and to have some input to influence the utilisation of resources and availability within the development plan.
That is a repeat of what Paul Steunebrink suggested.
In answer to your more recent question about "Why does it take so long ..." ... you may need to consider that the design of the software may be very different to other products making it more complicated to provide the support that the designers feel is necessary to provide the quality they set out to achieve. Also that availability of equipment to test may not always be easy to obtain, especially in advance of release. Another factor might be how eventual availability fits into a release schedule.
It is not at all unusual for new releases to remain unsupported for some time in third party products. Even Adobe with their broad graphics market presence and potential to influence the manufacturers do not always have support presented for all products in what some of the customer market might think of as a necessary response time to a new product release. Moreover I suspect that the recent trend produce more and more camera/lens combinations that rely on software to correct (or perhaps create) an image offering any quality at all will have made the task of providing third party support more complicated and potentially more susceptible to complaints from users if the 'translation' is not to their liking. One has to assume that the manufacturers making the RAW files available is a response to users who dislike the results they can achieve using JPG files (or whatever is on offer in camera from the manufacturer). I wonder if the manufacturers are inundated with complaints about that? How could we find out?
I hope you take this in the positive spirit that it is intended to convey.
Grant Perkins
Thanks and yes I do take your reply as positive.
I did list the X-A1 as an example and I do currently own that camera (among others), but my observation is/was regarding cameras of all makes. It takes longer, sometimes much longer, for C1 to provide raw support compared to their competitors (namely Adobe).
When I purchased C1, I did so with the expectation that PhaseOne will continue to support the application and will continue to add support for new cameras as they are released. This is a reasonable expectation based on the history of the application and the company. I feel that PhaseOne is meeting this expectation in many ways. They provide good support for the application and release regular fixes and updates. They also regularly add support for new cameras.
My only 2 complaints are that 1)new cameras should be added without the need to submit a request and... 2)it would be nice if the new cameras were added faster.
While the cooperation of camera manufacturers may play a role in the process, I am hardly interested in hearing it as an excuse. If I subscribe to a magazine, I expect every issue to be delivered. I don't care if their paper supplier doubled the price of paper, that is their problem. I expect PhaseOne to maintain a relationship with camera manufacturers that allows them to provide timely support for new cameras and if they cannot do that, then I expect them to purchase or rent the camera to enable support. That is one price of the business they have chosen to be in. Of course they are in no way obligated to do this. They have made no promise to me that any future cameras will be supported. But, timely support of new cameras is one measure of their success. It can effect whether or not I continue to buy their products. It can effect whether or not others will buy their products.
I really don't want to seem overly negative here. I think C1 is a great product. I simply see this as an area with room for improvement and I hope that PhaseOne works on it.0 -
Hello both !
Please can you summarise where we are now on this issue ?!
Pax !
Peter0 -
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
My only 2 complaints are that 1)new cameras should be added without the need to submit a request and... 2)it would be nice if the new cameras were added faster.
It has always been Phase One's way that mainstream camera brands (Canon, Nikon) get support quickly, and more "niche" manufacturers' bodies get support if and when resources allow and where demand justifies the work.
Want to demonstrate demand? Raise a support case.
Want guaranteed quick support? Shoot Canon or Nikon.
And Phase One still won't pre-announce.0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
[quote="NNN634918190170978537" wrote:
Want guaranteed quick support? Shoot Canon or Nikon.
And Phase One still won't pre-announce.
Are you serious ????????0 -
[quote="NNN634863802867218057" wrote:
Are you serious ????????
Yes !!!!!!!!
As a matter of fact, I am !!!!!!!!
Take it up with Phase One if you don't like it - but in essence they'll tell you the same thing. This is far from being the first time the issue of upcoming camera support has come up on here, and the end result is always the same: and basically, it's what I said.0 -
It's not really a question of whether a particular camera will be supported, more one of priorities based on likely demand and item availability. Maybe some technical issues from time to time if something new and disruptive is released and requires attentions outside the usual assessment work.
However with the bigger players in the manufacturing game still holding a large share of sales it is always likely to be a safe bet that there will be people wanting to use their kit and that a few of them will want to use C1. This may not be such an obvious situation as we move down the sales list ranking. More than that - straight camera sales by unit have been slipping substantially for a while even as more cameras have been adding RAW processing of one sort or another. So there seems to be a situation where there are, potentially, more units to support for RAW capabilities but fewer overall sales and therefore, presumably, fewer likely software licence sales.
Moreover some of the newer product concepts launched in recent years seem to rely on software for lens correction. That means that a software addressing RAW files will likely have to offer a very competent 'lens fix' as part of their support - which then means yet more work and cost before a camera can be said to be supported. (Even if the users then insist they want to turn off the correction because they can do it themselves. 😉 )
So whilst a developer may have a stated objective to support all cameras that are technically supportable the allocation of resource and order of development work undertaken is likely to mean that some products are supported more quickly than others. There is nothing unusual in that. Creating a formal support request, as in any business, provides something positive for the development planners to work with when considering priorities. That seems like a sensible approach to me.
Grant Perkins0 -
Paul, I am the original requester for any idea when we can expect Olympus E-M1 support.
Thanks for your advice, and at the time I did set out to lodge a case. As I remember, I gave up because it seemed such a long-winded and difficult process. Like many software companies, they seem to make customer contact a tortuous and difficult process. It is probable that they are software engineers with little marketing prowess. Now, it may seem simple to you, but to a relative newcomer to here, it was most unintuitive, so I gave up.
I also felt like some others, resentment at having to make a case for what is quite a significant camera if you read the photography forums. It is basic marketing that a customer or potential purchaser should easily be able to get a simple response. I know you are not part of PhaseOne, but maybe they read the posts here sometimes. I was in a customer service business for a while, and remember it can be quite easy to build a customer base if you have a good product and promote it well. If you slip up, or your customers feel you are not doing your best for them, you lose them quicker than you gained them.
Cheers,
Don0 -
Hi Don,
I have no idea if and when new camera support is available (and if I would I am not allowed to disclose here). However, threads like these catch my attention as I feel like you that the process of request and inquire could be improved.
I have some ideas about this and hope to share them with Phase One shortly through proper channels. This does not help you in the short run (or maybe it does, it depends) but maybe it will in the long term. For me is key that one has to manage the customer's expectations properly.0 -
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your considered response.
To explain, in case anyone from PhaseOne looks here: I have used Lightroom for several years and have been reasonably happy. Tested Capture One, liked it and bought it because of the results I was getting from a couple of my supported cameras. The E-M1 is supported by the latest Lightroom upgrade. So I have to decide what to do next soon.
Cheers,
Don0 -
First of all, rest assured that CO will have support for the E-M1 within a reasonable amount of time!
Second, the reason why we encourage people to submit a case with support, is to get first-hand knowledge about what our customers want.0 -
[quote="NN634981544533814744UL" wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your considered response.
To explain, in case anyone from PhaseOne looks here: I have used Lightroom for several years and have been reasonably happy. Tested Capture One, liked it and bought it because of the results I was getting from a couple of my supported cameras. The E-M1 is supported by the latest Lightroom upgrade. So I have to decide what to do next soon.
Cheers,
Don
Don,
I think this is may be a question of size.
Some organisations have scale and influence (and maybe some sorts of constraints through size, though that is a difficult call.)
Others are smaller, more specifically dedicated or focused and perhaps because of that take a little longer to respond, though not so much longer in the overall scheme of the way the world works.
It's a bit like the tale of David and Goliath although the modern world seems incapable of any form of patience that would allow things to develop before it sounds off. So much for the joys and benefits of modern communications and expectations.
If you are impatient you should take the instant solution if it matters to you.
However as time passes I am less and less sure that any of the decision criteria so often presented here are at all relevant.
Why not buy both products and compare them as the seasons pass? What's the cost? 1/5th of the price of your new camera? Or 1/10th if you are a single application buyer and trying to make a decision based on the difference between the two?
Is it really so critical to your decision?
I mean, really?
Why not save yourself some grief, graze the market and take your time to select what is best for you? Or just buy everything that looks close to interesting. That surely would not be too expensive compared to total spend and would give you immense understanding and influence. All for the price of a night out enjoying yourself. Or a tank full of gas. (At European prices) .
Just do it an spend more time defining your photography and less time fretting. It will be good for your overall health.
Grant Perkins0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="NN634981544533814744UL" wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your considered response.
To explain, in case anyone from PhaseOne looks here: I have used Lightroom for several years and have been reasonably happy. Tested Capture One, liked it and bought it because of the results I was getting from a couple of my supported cameras. The E-M1 is supported by the latest Lightroom upgrade. So I have to decide what to do next soon.
Cheers,
Don
Don,
I think this is may be a question of size.
Some organisations have scale and influence (and maybe some sorts of constraints through size, though that is a difficult call.)
Others are smaller, more specifically dedicated or focused and perhaps because of that take a little longer to respond, though not so much longer in the overall scheme of the way the world works.
It's a bit like the tale of David and Goliath although the modern world seems incapable of any form of patience that would allow things to develop before it sounds off. So much for the joys and benefits of modern communications and expectations.
If you are impatient you should take the instant solution if it matters to you.
However as time passes I am less and less sure that any of the decision criteria so often presented here are at all relevant.
Why not buy both products and compare them as the seasons pass? What's the cost? 1/5th of the price of your new camera? Or 1/10th if you are a single application buyer and trying to make a decision based on the difference between the two?
Is it really so critical to your decision?
I mean, really?
Why not save yourself some grief, graze the market and take your time to select what is best for you? Or just buy everything that looks close to interesting. That surely would not be too expensive compared to total spend and would give you immense understanding and influence. All for the price of a night out enjoying yourself. Or a tank full of gas. (At European prices) .
Just do it an spend more time defining your photography and less time fretting. It will be good for your overall health.
Grant Perkins
Grant, I enjoyed reading your post, though it is largely expletive deleted 😄
I mean that in a friendly way.
I own both programs, and certainly will proceed with the one which suits best.
I like C1 the best.
I would like it to work with my camera.
Christian Gr says soon.
Good enough for me, it's all I wanted.
Maybe my whinging might help.
Thanks all.
Cheers,
Don0
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