Media Pro 1 Mac: Will we get manufacturer rendering back?
Even though I have migrated most of my stuff to Lightroom due to lack of development for years I liked with iView and MS Expression Media that it would offer manufacturer rendering (I shoot Nikon) if I had Nikon software installed. I do have lots of older products that were developed with Nikon Capture and it was nice to see the images how they were supposed to look.
Lightroom never gave me this luxury. With Media Pro 1 however, manufacturer rendering is gone. One reason less for me to go back. Will manufacturer rendering ever be back?
Lightroom never gave me this luxury. With Media Pro 1 however, manufacturer rendering is gone. One reason less for me to go back. Will manufacturer rendering ever be back?
0
-
I am hugely disappointed to discover that Media Pro ignores the modifications made to NEF files with Nikon Capture.
This is very unfortunate since this modifications are taken into account properly in the high quality JPG file that is included inside the NEF.0 -
...excellent, I fully agree.
Manufacturer rendering is a must.
I also shoot Nikon NEF and not one RAW converter comes even close to the quality Nikon Capture NX delivers processing NEF RAW files (I am convinced until someone will prove the contrary). I have to admit CNX is a bit clumsy.
However, in imaging the output quality is the key factor.
Phase One has taken a very smart decision by keeping Media Pro and Capture One separate.
But it was not a smart move to dump proper manufacturer rendering in Media Pro.0 -
Have you tried the Apple Core Image rendering setting? 0 -
I'd be willing to bet that manufacturer rendering isn't possible anymore due to a licensing issue with Nikon. 0 -
[quote="Corey Riggle" wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that manufacturer rendering isn't possible anymore due to a licensing issue with Nikon.
It would really be helpful if your or one of the earlier posters would let us know explicitly if you tried the Apple Core Image rendering setting. I would do it myself but I do not have an Intel-based Mac.0 -
I'm of the Phase one camp. I'm really pleased that Media Pro shares the same rendering with Capture One.
The Apple Core imaging is a really nice option as well, but it won't look anything like nikons software.0 -
[quote="Corey Riggle" wrote:
I'm of the Phase one camp. I'm really pleased that Media Pro shares the same rendering with Capture One.
The Apple Core imaging is a really nice option as well, but it won't look anything like nikons software.
You're speculating and not reporting actual experience. I'd still like to hear from someone who has actually tried using the Apple Core rendering setting in Media Pro to verify that the NEF previews are not rendered satisfactorily. We need actual evidence so that we can know to whom we should send our complaints (e.g., Nikon, Apple, or Phase One).0 -
I tried both engines; neither the Apple nor the Phase One rendering engines take into account the editing done with Nikon Capture NX2. I am using a MacBookPro with OS X10.6.7
This is true whether I check the "Use embedded preview" box in the preferences menu or not.
The editing is taken into account in the small preview images however0 -
[quote="NN228802UL" wrote:
I tried both engines; neither the Apple nor the Phase One rendering engines take into account the editing done with Nikon Capture NX2. I am using a MacBookPro with OS X10.6.7
This is true whether I check the "Use embedded preview" box in the preferences menu or not.
Thanks for verifying this.[quote="NN228802UL" wrote:
The editing is taken into account in the small preview images however
Are you talking about thumbnails (controlled by the Thumbnails and Previews menu option)? Or are you talking about the previews created when you check "Create Full Screen Preview" in the same menu option?0 -
10-year user of iView/EM here. I too am disappointed to find no change to the Nikon NEF rendering in MediaPro.
iView/Expression Media rendered Nikon NEF previews correctly through 10.4 (Tiger). Color got a little hairy with 10.5 (Leopard), and finally broke completely with 10.6. PhotoMechanic has absolutely no trouble reflecting edits in NEFs in all 3 OSes, so I have to conclude something has been off in this software for a long time.
Thumbnail view does render the edits properly, but Media view does not.0 -
The embedded preview in NEF files are embedded in the camera, Capture NX does not embed a new preview based on the changes it makes to the NEF. I do not want to turn this into a RAW software war, but if you are using NX, you really need to try Capture One. The color quality and detail by far exceeds NX, and you have full rendering support in Media Pro. 0 -
[quote="nancyr" wrote:
10-year user of iView/EM here. I too am disappointed to find no change to the Nikon NEF rendering in MediaPro.
iView/Expression Media rendered Nikon NEF previews correctly through 10.4 (Tiger). Color got a little hairy with 10.5 (Leopard), and finally broke completely with 10.6. PhotoMechanic has absolutely no trouble reflecting edits in NEFs in all 3 OSes, so I have to conclude something has been off in this software for a long time.
Thumbnail view does render the edits properly, but Media view does not.
Ahh... thank you for the detailed information. I'm still using Tiger, so I have been blissfully ignorant of the lack of NEF preview support with subsequent OSs. Who is responsible for this issue (and for fixing it)? Apple, Nikon or Phase One?0 -
[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
The embedded preview in NEF files are embedded in the camera, Capture NX does not embed a new preview based on the changes it makes to the NEF. I do not want to turn this into a RAW software war, but if you are using NX, you really need to try Capture One. The color quality and detail by far exceeds NX, and you have full rendering support in Media Pro.
You are missing the point. I have already invested money into Capture NX 2, and am very happy with it. I do not wish to be forced into purchasing another RAW editing software.
I wish Drew could chime in here to explain whether this is a software bug or a licensing issue and, if the latter, whether Phase One has any control over it. Windows users are able to view their Nikon Capture NX/NEF previews just fine. Mac users should have the same option.0 -
[quote="syncrasy" wrote:
[quote="NN228802UL" wrote:
I tried both engines; neither the Apple nor the Phase One rendering engines take into account the editing done with Nikon Capture NX2. I am using a MacBookPro with OS X10.6.7
This is true whether I check the "Use embedded preview" box in the preferences menu or not.
Thanks for verifying this.[quote="NN228802UL" wrote:
The editing is taken into account in the small preview images however
Are you talking about thumbnails (controlled by the Thumbnails and Previews menu option)? Or are you talking about the previews created when you check "Create Full Screen Preview" in the same menu option?
I am talking about the thumbnails
Thumbnails are fine but switching to "Media" (one has the choice between List, Thumbnails and Media), one looses the NCX2 editing.0 -
[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
The embedded preview in NEF files are embedded in the camera, Capture NX does not embed a new preview based on the changes it makes to the NEF. I do not want to turn this into a RAW software war, but if you are using NX, you really need to try Capture One. The color quality and detail by far exceeds NX, and you have full rendering support in Media Pro.
Actually, Capture NX does embed a new preview with each change to the NEF. 😊
The question is, why can't iView/EM/MediaPro use that JPEG preview in Leopard and higher? It worked before, and apparently works in Windows too. Must be some little bug or eccentricity that has snowballed over the years.0 -
[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
The embedded preview in NEF files are embedded in the camera, Capture NX does not embed a new preview based on the changes it makes to the NEF. I do not want to turn this into a RAW software war, but if you are using NX, you really need to try Capture One. The color quality and detail by far exceeds NX, and you have full rendering support in Media Pro.
Capture NX does imbed a new JPG file based on the changes it made on the NEF file. This is mentioned in the NC users manual.
This new JPG file is bigger than the original JPG file that the camera imbeds, and accordingly the NEF file is bigger after NEF processing.
You can see it by yourself by playing with any piece of software that allows extracting RAW files content, like exiftools.0 -
[quote="syncrasy" wrote:
[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
The embedded preview in NEF files are embedded in the camera, Capture NX does not embed a new preview based on the changes it makes to the NEF. I do not want to turn this into a RAW software war, but if you are using NX, you really need to try Capture One. The color quality and detail by far exceeds NX, and you have full rendering support in Media Pro.
You are missing the point. I have already invested money into Capture NX 2, and am very happy with it. I do not wish to be forced into purchasing another RAW editing software.
I wish Drew could chime in here to explain whether this is a software bug or a licensing issue and, if the latter, whether Phase One has any control over it. Windows users are able to view their Nikon Capture NX/NEF previews just fine. Mac users should have the same option.
I think I can shed some light on this issue as I am a Windows user. In order for Windows to give the preview it does, you need to install the Windows Imaging Component, and in order for that to work, you need Nikon's NEF RAW Codec pack which is a Windows only codec pack. Nikon never made one for MAC. In my eyes, the problem is a licensing issue between Apple and Nikon, or Apple just dropped support for whatever the reason possibly to make Aperture look like the better choice.
Many of these companies don't want to play nice with one another, and will only support their own solution. So no matter how you look at it, if you want the proper previews, you just might need to make a change.0 -
[quote="NN228802UL" wrote:
[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
The embedded preview in NEF files are embedded in the camera, Capture NX does not embed a new preview based on the changes it makes to the NEF. I do not want to turn this into a RAW software war, but if you are using NX, you really need to try Capture One. The color quality and detail by far exceeds NX, and you have full rendering support in Media Pro.
Capture NX does imbed a new JPG file based on the changes it made on the NEF file. This is mentioned in the NC users manual.
This new JPG file is bigger than the original JPG file that the camera imbeds, and accordingly the NEF file is bigger after NEF processing.
You can see it by yourself by playing with any piece of software that allows extracting RAW files content, like exiftools.
That surprises me, and sorry for the mistake. I remember reading documentation sometime ago about Capture NX where they describe their non-destructive editing to RAW files. By embedding a new preview, you have in fact changed the RAW file. I am not so sure I really like that method0 -
[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
[quote="NN228802UL" wrote:
[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
The embedded preview in NEF files are embedded in the camera, Capture NX does not embed a new preview based on the changes it makes to the NEF. I do not want to turn this into a RAW software war, but if you are using NX, you really need to try Capture One. The color quality and detail by far exceeds NX, and you have full rendering support in Media Pro.
Capture NX does imbed a new JPG file based on the changes it made on the NEF file. This is mentioned in the NC users manual.
This new JPG file is bigger than the original JPG file that the camera imbeds, and accordingly the NEF file is bigger after NEF processing.
You can see it by yourself by playing with any piece of software that allows extracting RAW files content, like exiftools.
That surprises me, and sorry for the mistake. I remember reading documentation sometime ago about Capture NX where they describe their non-destructive editing to RAW files. By embedding a new preview, you have in fact changed the RAW file. I am not so sure I really like that method
Nikon Capture N X performs non-destructive editing of the part of the NEF file that contains the RAW image, namely you can always undo some editing. But the NEF file contains also the set of editing instructions, and the JPG file I was mentioning, that are modified by the editing.
There are other RAW editing softwares that leave the NEF files unchanged and store the editing instructions either in the software data basis or in sidecar files. In some sense these softwares are truly non destructive, and Nikon Capture is not.0 -
[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
In my eyes, the problem is a licensing issue between Apple and Nikon, or Apple just dropped support for whatever the reason possibly to make Aperture look like the better choice.
Do you have any evidence that this is a licensing issue? Or are you just speculating?[quote="Paul1921" wrote:
Many of these companies don't want to play nice with one another, and will only support their own solution. So no matter how you look at it, if you want the proper previews, you just might need to make a change.
Again, you are missing the point. I currently am able to see proper previews in Expression Media on Mac OS Tiger. Until you (or Phase One) can provide actual evidence that this problem is due to an insurmountable licensing issue and not flawed programming, it is entirely reasonable for Mac users of Media Pro to expect feature parity between Windows and Mac.0 -
Proper rendering of NEFs is an important issue for me too. The issue was known to Microsoft for about a year before they sold the software and has been known to Phase One for the last year (it is listed as a known issue). I discovered the problem when I moved from OSX 10.5 to 10.6 with a new computer -- NEFs rendered properly with 10.5 using the manufacturer's engine but not with 10.6.
Viewing files rendered with the Apple engine is not a satisfactory work-around. Vertical images are not rotated, the files do not display the in-camera settings that are displayed when using Capture NX2 and edits made in Capture NX2 are not displayed.
I have used iView and Expression Media as both a catalog and a browser. I still love the cataloging functions (and have a large existing catalog) but have started using Photo Mechanic as a browser to ingest, sort and annotate images. I understand that Photo Mechanic uses the built-in jpg preview to display the images and updates whenever you edit the file -- but it doesn't actually render the raw files. It works quickly and efficiently.
It is great that Media Pro shows edits made with Capture One. The program used to do the same thing with the edits made with Capture NX2 and it would be great to see that function restored in a future update. The discussion about the relative merits on various raw processors isn't really relevant here -- it is reasonable to expect that Media Pro will support a variety of workflows (and especially those the program HAS supported in the past).
Media Pro Preferences: I have tried both Phase One and Apple Engines with "Use embedded profile" both checked and unchecked. None display NEFs properly. I am wondering why "Use embedded profile" doesn't seem to make a difference since, as explained in earlier posts, the embedded preview is updated as edits are made with Capture NX. None of the views display the updated NEFs -- list view, thumbnails or media. (And I did remember to rebuild the image after changing the preference settings).
Right now I'll use both Photo Mechanic and Media Pro. I'd settle on just one if Media Pro can restore this functionality or if Photo Mechanic develops their long promised cataloguing functions.
Bob0 -
Thanks, Bob, for adding your comments.
What's curious to me is that Drew and other Phase One staff have responded to all of the major Media Pro-related posts in the last few days, but have not uttered a word in this thread. Surely, since acquiring EM, they should have an understanding of the Mac/NEF preview problem. A quick reply as to the nature of the problem (e.g., licensing or programming), and what they intend to do about it, could help put an end to all the speculating.0 -
I'm posting a comment here with two thoughts in mind:
1. To bring this thread up near the top of the list again.
2. To ask -- Will this issue be addressed in a future update?
My Media Pro trial ends in a couple of days and I'm inclined to pass on purchasing the new program. I'll keep using Expression Media despite its flaws.
Bob0 -
My Media Pro trial ends in a couple of days and I'm inclined to pass on purchasing the new program.
Mine is ending today so i deinstalled it and installed it again. Another 30 days to test ... 😊
Roelof0 -
[quote="Bubba5" wrote:
I'm posting a comment here with two thoughts in mind:
1. To bring this thread up near the top of the list again.
2. To ask -- Will this issue be addressed in a future update?
Bob, you must have missed the thread "Correct colours with Nikon RAW/NEF". Assuming we're all talking about the same topic—support for Nikon NEFs (previewing changes, colors, etc.)—the answer apparently is No. Phase One have no intention of supporting Nikon manufacturer rendering. Instead they are "encouraging" users to purchase Capture One to edit our NEFs. But Phase One has not officially (i.e. on the product page) disclosed the fact that Nikon NX users who purchase Media Pro must also purchase another software (Capture One) to edit and view our raw images. I think this lack of disclosure raises serious ethical questions. Not stating hidden costs takes advantage of "captive customers" and does not foster good will in this community.[quote="Bubba5" wrote:
My Media Pro trial ends in a couple of days and I'm inclined to pass on purchasing the new program. I'll keep using Expression Media despite its flaws.
Bob
I'll continue to use Expression Media as well. In fact, I don't have any problems with it on Tiger. But I don't know what I'll do when I have to update my OS to Snow Leopard or Lion.0 -
Yes we are talking about the same thing. No I hadn't read that thread.
This is very disappointing news. Iview was a program that addressed the needs of a broad range of users. Media Pro can be fairly described as a niche product best suited for those who have opted to use Capture One.
I discovered the problem when I went from Leopard to Snow Leopard. I don't have the option of going back since the new Mac will only run Snow Leopard. The arguments in the other thread are odd. I've been using Photo Mechanic for about six months. It has absolutely no problem displaying NEFs and picks up the edits made in Capture NX2 almost instantly. It does not have the cataloguing features found in iView/EM/Media Pro but Camera Bits is supposedly working on adding cataloguing. I'm inclined to go with that company -- it is moving in the right direction and offers highly responsive technical support.
I'm going to begin the process of moving away from Expression Media/Media Pro.
I just wish the decision to ditch "manufacturer" rendering had been made clear to me in September 2010 when I created a support case and exchanged a number of emails on the subject. I feel badly mislead.
Bob0 -
Flashback to a year ago, June 8, 2010, and the thread "Expression Media—The Future": [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
My hope is that any "integration" of EM and Capture One simply means "play well together," not combined into a single (more expensive) program. I've already invested in Nikon Capture NX2 as my raw processor and would not want to pay for Capture One if I wish only to upgrade to the next version of EM.
I guess my hopes were foolish.
I suspect that Phase One really intends to combine the two programs into one to compete with Lightroom. If you look at their answer to the FAQ "Will Media Pro be integrated with Capture One?" on the FAQ page, you can see some weaselly legalese that dances around the topic and keeps the door open for a future merger of the two products into one:[quote="Phase One's FAQ page" wrote:
Will Media Pro be integrated with Capture One?
Phase One’s initial focus has been to create new workflow benefits to photographers when they use Media Pro and Capture One together.
It is Phase One’s general policy not to comment on future releases. However, customers can expect that Phase One will continue to invest in professional photo management and image editing software and make the combined toolset the most effective choice for photographers who need to manage very large, high quality image files and collections in a fast and efficient photography workflow.
Capture One provides state-of-the-art photo editing tools that will assist photographers in achieving the perfect look for every image. Media Pro complements Capture One with its professional photo management capabilities.
Phase One has a right to configure its products the way it sees fit to be competitive in the marketplace. But to not disclose the hidden costs or incompatibilities raises serious ethical questions.0 -
[quote="syncrasy" wrote:
.....
I suspect that Phase One really intends to combine the two programs into one to compete with Lightroom. .......
I sure hope not.
One of the primary reasons for me to use MP is its speed relative to LR (which I also have).
My experience with combined packages is that they tend to get bloated - and slow.0 -
[quote="Jim MSP" wrote:
[quote="syncrasy" wrote:
.....
I suspect that Phase One really intends to combine the two programs into one to compete with Lightroom. .......
I sure hope not.
One of the primary reasons for me to use MP is its speed relative to LR (which I also have).
My experience with combined packages is that they tend to get bloated - and slow.
Well, for Nikon Capture users, the issue is now moot. While technically the products are still separate, because we can view NEFs only by purchasing and using both Media Pro and Capture One, it's as if the products had already been merged (but at a higher price since we would have to purchase the products separately).
But Phase One does not state this "requirement" in the Media Pro marketing materials.0 -
I believe Phase One can work for Nikon Capture NX users as it did with iView and Expression Media. Phase One need to fix a lot of bugs in Media Pro 1 and to me this is one of them.
Ulf is quoted in the thread quoted by syncrasy :
"With Media PRO we support Phase One's RAW engine and Apple's quicklook / Windows Image Component."
Apple supplies the rendering that Photo Mechanic, etc use. Windows WIC codecs are supplied by the camera manufacturers, in this case Nikon. When Phase One fix the rendering I hope we will at least get back what we had in Expression Media 2.
BTW this bug also affects DNG rendering which is broken in Media Pro 1 and hopelessly slooooow!0
Post is closed for comments.
Comments
36 comments