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Auto adjust question

Michael Sonshine
When I create a new catalog and import raw images I always leave the auto adjust setting checked as I want C1 to pre-adjust my images. I have been trying to figure out where the file that controls these settings is so I could look at what they are and possibly adjust them or, alternately, substitute another file for the one being used. I have looked but have not found the location of this file if, in fact, there is an "Auto Adjust adjustment" file of some kind.

Can anyone help me out here? Is there such a file? Or are the values hard-wired into C1? If I wanted to add (or change) a value what options do I have? I know I can create a style file and set that, but I don't know if I can change only one or two values for import. If there is no such file how does one change what is done during import?

Thank you,
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Comments

17 comments

Date Votes
  • camhabib
    I believe C1 looks at each picture individually and doesn't just apply a pre-determined modification in batch. As such, there is likely no file to edit.
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  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="camhabib" wrote:
    I believe C1 looks at each picture individually and doesn't just apply a pre-determined modification in batch. As such, there is likely no file to edit.

    I am sure that is true because images are clearly adjusted based on their content rather than on a set of pre-defined values. My bright photos are auto-adjusted very differently from those in the shade. But I thought that perhaps there was a file specifying what should be adjusted rather than how they should be adjusted. In my case what I wanted to do was to have the auto adjustments include setting the Auto control on the Levels adjustment so that the shadow and highlight point sliders were touching the ends of the histogram. I almost always have to do this manually for each photo and it seemed like a good idea to perhaps have to undo it on a few images rather than to have to do it on all.

    When I could not find a way to do this I thought that perhaps I could do this in a style and include that style in the auto adjustments, but the style settings are for specific values of those pointers and thus do not set them to touch the histogram but rather to specific locations on the graph.
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  • Frank.O
    Hi,

    have a look into the adjustments menu. There's a submenu "auto adjustments" where you can select which tools to include when auto adjusting an image. (My OSX is in German so the names may be slightly different)

    Regards,
    Frank
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  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="Frank.O" wrote:

    have a look into the adjustments menu. There's a submenu "auto adjustments" where you can select which tools to include when auto adjusting an image. (My OSX is in German so the names may be slightly different)

    Yes. Thank you.

    But that only includes general areas and not specifics. For example it includes Levels but not which controls within Levels are to be adjusted. I have that checked and it does adjust the levels upon raw image import, but it does not give me the choice of whether or not I want to have it set the Levels Auto setting and position the shadows and highlights points at the ends of the histogram or not and that is what I am trying to find a way to do.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    Mike

    In C1 preferences, have you looked at the Exposure tab? There are settings there that control some of what happens with Auto Levels, such as whether the adjustment is applied to RGB or to the channels separately, and also a target level for how much clipping to allow. Presumably these would affect what happened if Levels are adjusted automatically on import.

    Ian
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  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:

    In C1 preferences, have you looked at the Exposure tab? There are settings there that control some of what happens with Auto Levels, such as whether the adjustment is applied to RGB or to the channels separately, and also a target level for how much clipping to allow. Presumably these would affect what happened if Levels are adjusted automatically on import.

    I have, actually.

    As I understand the Pick Target Levels setting is designed to set the highlights and shadows pointer to specific values so the sliders show the values from 0 through 255. I assume that if I set the shadows to, say, 3 and the highlights to, say, 253 then it will set those values. But, of course, I want the values set as the Auto would set them - to the top and bottom of the histogram after it has been modified by the auto settings.

    At the moment I am just selecting all of the images and then pressing shift-Click on the Auto button to select all of the images. It is not a lot of work but it just seems silly to have to do something like that manually when there should be a way to do it automatically when the auto adjustments are being made.

    Thanks for the suggestion.
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  • SFA
    Mike,

    I think the idea of Auto Adjustments is to give you a starting point for edits (or perhaps something that looks about right if the original has been shot to a special need situation for RAW editing) in order to have something presentable but not finished that an uninitiated client might look at before any real editing effort has been enacted.

    You can apply Auto, for example, on import.

    Beyond that, or using it if you forget to set it so on import, I'm not sure there is much use for it in most workflows.

    Why not?

    Well, if you have started an edit session one might assume that there is the possibility that the first edit you complete in a set is likely to be applicable to the second as well. So copy and paste .... at which point the Auto adjustment becomes redundant. Maybe. If it isn't just click on the Auto icon and the system default rules will be applied.


    Grant.
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  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Mike,

    I think the idea of Auto Adjustments is to give you a starting point for edits (or perhaps something that looks about right if the original has been shot to a special need situation for RAW editing) in order to have something presentable but not finished that an uninitiated client might look at before any real editing effort has been enacted.

    You can apply Auto, for example, on import.

    Beyond that, or using it if you forget to set it so on import, I'm not sure there is much use for it in most workflows.

    Why not?

    Well, if you have started an edit session one might assume that there is the possibility that the first edit you complete in a set is likely to be applicable to the second as well. So copy and paste .... at which point the Auto adjustment becomes redundant. Maybe. If it isn't just click on the Auto icon and the system default rules will be applied.
    .

    First, to be clear, almost every image in my workflow requires different adjustments from every other one except for situations when I have taken a burst of shots at one time. That, of course, is mostly when I am birding and shooting birds in trees or in the water. Almost every other type of shot requires a shot-specific set of adjustments.

    I ask C1 to do auto adjustments on import to get me in the ballpark of where I want to be, not to be final adjustments for my images. Normally I need to do some exposure adjustment which, of course, changes the histogram and would then require that I change other values such as highlights, shadows, contrast and possibly many other settings. However the auto does get most of my images reasonably close to where I want to be. The idea of setting the highlights and shadows pointers is the same thing. I want them reasonably close to where I expect them to be when finished and if I can do that with some automated process, so much the better.

    So my idea was to find some way to have the current auto settings also include the Auto adjust for the histogram pointers. Yes, I will probably have to adjust them further but it makes it easier for me to see what adjustments have to be made to get the image to look like I want if the highlights and shadows pointers are properly set. As it is now I either have to do the setting for all images after import (by selecting all the images and then doing a Shift-Click) or doing them all manually one at a time. I am just looking for something to save me hundreds of extra clicks each editing session. I am not trying to find some process to pre-set all of my images automatically and, in fact, I find the process of editing images one of the most enjoyable parts of the whole process of photography. I don't want to automate all of it, only to ease the work I have to do.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    [quote="MikeFromMesa" wrote:

    As I understand the Pick Target Levels setting is designed to set the highlights and shadows pointer to specific values so the sliders show the values from 0 through 255. I assume that if I set the shadows to, say, 3 and the highlights to, say, 253 then it will set those values. But, of course, I want the values set as the Auto would set them - to the top and bottom of the histogram after it has been modified by the auto settings.


    There's also the Auto Levels Clipping Thresholds setting. I have not made much use of that, but unless I misunderstand it, it specifies what percentage of pixels are allowed to be clipped for both highlights and shadows. But you have probably worked that one out too!

    Ian
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  • Frank.O
    Mike,

    I may be misunderstanding you but what I've just tried is:

    -select a number of images in some album
    -click on the "A" in the headline of the levels tool.

    All images had their levels adjusted individually dependant on the content.

    Isn't that what you are looking for?

    Regards,
    Frank
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  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="Frank.O" wrote:
    Mike,

    I may be misunderstanding you but what I've just tried is:

    -select a number of images in some album
    -click on the "A" in the headline of the levels tool.

    All images had their levels adjusted individually dependant on the content.

    Isn't that what you are looking for?

    That is, in fact, what I am currently doing. But what I was trying to find was some way to do that during import.

    Checking the Auto Adjust checkbox means that C1 will apply the defined adjustments during import and, since the Levels is included in my list I was looking for some way to have it apply the Levels Auto as well as the Levels adjustment.
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  • SFA
    [quote="MikeFromMesa" wrote:
    [quote="Frank.O" wrote:
    Mike,

    I may be misunderstanding you but what I've just tried is:

    -select a number of images in some album
    -click on the "A" in the headline of the levels tool.

    All images had their levels adjusted individually dependant on the content.

    Isn't that what you are looking for?

    That is, in fact, what I am currently doing. But what I was trying to find was some way to do that during import.

    Checking the Auto Adjust checkbox means that C1 will apply the defined adjustments during import and, since the Levels is included in my list I was looking for


    Mike,

    What do you mean by "some way to have it apply the Levels Auto as well as the Levels adjustment."

    What is the "Levels Adjustment" in that sentence? What differentiates it from the "Auto Levels" function?


    Grant
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  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    What do you mean by "some way to have it apply the Levels Auto as well as the Levels adjustment."

    What is the "Levels Adjustment" in that sentence? What differentiates it from the "Auto Levels" function?

    When I import images into C1 I always check the Auto Adjust in the Adjustments section of the import dialog box. As I understand this, it means that C1 will apply whatever adjustments I have already checked under Adjustments -> Auto Adjustments and do so during the import processing, Since I have checked Levels I assume C1 is doing some kind of automatic Levels adjustment during the import process. Assuming that is true and it is already adjusting Levels, then all I am asking is that it also adjust the highlights and shadows pointers that can be done by clicking the "A" control in the Levels tool.

    So, to the best of my knowledge, there is an auto Levels adjustment and an Auto adjustment within the Levels tool to control the shadows and highlights pointers. If I am wrong about that, then my question makes no sense.

    UPDATE:

    Your question made me go back and try to figure out if my basic assumption was wrong. I went to a folder containing raw images, copied one of those images to a second location, changed its name and copied it back. I then went to C1, created a new catalog and imported one of those identical images with auto adjust on and one with it off so I could compare the results. What happened made me understand that my basic assumptions when I posed the question were wrong.

    I had assumed that if I unchecked Auto Adjust during import my images would be imported without any adjustments and that if I wanted adjustments made during import I needed to check that box. My test showed me that C1 automatically adjusts the images regardless of my setting of that checkbox and hence the entire basis for my question was false. It also showed me that checking that box automatically set the highlights and shadows pointers and unchecking it did not. What still puzzles me is why some of my imported images do not have that set and some do. Perhaps I need to go back and re-view some of the C1 tutorials because I was sure of some things that I now know to be incorrect.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="MikeFromMesa" wrote:
    ...
    My test showed me that C1 automatically adjusts the images regardless of my setting of that checkbox and hence the entire basis for my question was false.

    This is not how it should work. Either your setup is working erratic, or there is something else going on.

    Auto Adjust on import affects four tools (six is you have raw files from a Phase One IQ back): White Balance, Exposure, HDR, Levels. Which tool applies depends on your settings from the Adjustments menu. Auto Adjust on import is the same as Auto Adjust from the Adjustments menu.

    When you do not check the box for Auto Adjust in the import dialog, no automatic adjustments will take place. Note however that you can import adjustments that resides in settings files. That is another box to (un)check in the import dialog.

    Maybe my blog on (auto) adjustments might help:
    http://imagealchemist.net/adjustments-explained/
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  • SFA
    Hi Mike,

    As Paul has said already you seem to have some odd things happening OR they are not odd at all but the result of a combination of settings that may have become complex to understand over time.

    If you import images previously "adjusted" there is the question about whether you want to use any adjustments that already exist. This could of course include Auto adjustments applied if, say, the image had been reviewed on a memory card without being "imported" if using a session based workflow.

    Normally a new load from a card (or a card copied to a folder on disc with no processing applied) would not be influenced by that setting due lack of any prior adjustments.

    Then there is the "Auto Adjust on import" tick box that you wish to use. That should then automatically apply the "Auto" settings you have selected. Within those the Auto Levels setting has further refinements for the Levels tool to be in the Preferences file under the Exposure tab. These settings may also influence the results you are seeing.

    Then there is the question about whether there may be other defaults saved to be applied for specific cameras. So, for example, it is possible to save modified Levels settings (and others) as the defaults for a camera. Check what you have in User Presets and User Styles and maybe user ICC profiles.

    I would assume that the Auto adjustments would override whatever the default settings might be. However disabling the Auto method would then revert to the defaults and they might not be what one expects to see if a "special" version has been saved as the new, non-standard, default for the camera. For Levels settings some other tools can also be influential upon the values you see.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
    [quote="MikeFromMesa" wrote:
    ...
    My test showed me that C1 automatically adjusts the images regardless of my setting of that checkbox and hence the entire basis for my question was false.

    This is not how it should work. Either your setup is working erratic, or there is something else going on.

    Auto Adjust on import affects four tools (six is you have raw files from a Phase One IQ back): White Balance, Exposure, HDR, Levels. Which tool applies depends on your settings from the Adjustments menu. Auto Adjust on import is the same as Auto Adjust from the Adjustments menu.

    When you do not check the box for Auto Adjust in the import dialog, no automatic adjustments will take place. Note however that you can import adjustments that resides in settings files. That is another box to (un)check in the import dialog.

    Maybe my blog on (auto) adjustments might help:
    http://imagealchemist.net/adjustments-explained/


    I will certainly read that blog but I thought I would also post some screen shots. I assume there is a way to embed them in the message but I have not found any controls to do that so I have copied the images to dropbox and used links to that.

    As I mentioned earlier, I took a recent image, duplicated it and changed the name of the second so I could import both of them into C1. I then created a new catalog, imported one with the auto adjust checkbox unchecked and then imported the second with the auto checkbox checked. Here are the screen shots.

    1) The image with the auto adjust checked:

    '

    2) The image with the auto adjust unchecked:



    I have circled what I believe to be the appropriate parts of the screen shots. As you can see the two histograms are identical for both the auto adjusted and non-auto adjusted images and only the position of the highlights and shadows pointers differ.
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  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Hi Mike,

    As Paul has said already you seem to have some odd things happening OR they are not odd at all but the result of a combination of settings that may have become complex to understand over time.

    If you import images previously "adjusted" there is the question about whether you want to use any adjustments that already exist. This could of course include Auto adjustments applied if, say, the image had been reviewed on a memory card without being "imported" if using a session based workflow.

    Normally a new load from a card (or a card copied to a folder on disc with no processing applied) would not be influenced by that setting due lack of any prior adjustments.

    Then there is the "Auto Adjust on import" tick box that you wish to use. That should then automatically apply the "Auto" settings you have selected. Within those the Auto Levels setting has further refinements for the Levels tool to be in the Preferences file under the Exposure tab. These settings may also influence the results you are seeing.

    Then there is the question about whether there may be other defaults saved to be applied for specific cameras. So, for example, it is possible to save modified Levels settings (and others) as the defaults for a camera. Check what you have in User Presets and User Styles and maybe user ICC profiles.

    I would assume that the Auto adjustments would override whatever the default settings might be. However disabling the Auto method would then revert to the defaults and they might not be what one expects to see if a "special" version has been saved as the new, non-standard, default for the camera. For Levels settings some other tools can also be influential upon the values you see.

    I am not sure that I understand if the point you are making applies to me or not.

    My process is as follows:

    1) Copy raw images from the camera card to disc using Finder. These images are not "imported" by C1 at that point.

    2) Create a new catalog and import those raw images into the catalog using the auto adjust setting, but leaving them in physically in their original location.

    3) The Adjustments setting, which should apply to the work done by auto adjust, has Exposure, High Dynamic Range and Levels set.

    As I understand it the only adjustments that should be applied are those related to the three items checked in the Adjustments pulldown setting and, since these are raw images, there are no prior adjustments that have been made except for the in-camera adjustments made when the image was taken.

    Given all of this it seemed reasonable to me to assume that there ought to be some difference between the histograms that result from importing a raw image with the auto adjust checkbox checked and with it unchecked and I expected to see a difference when these two identical raw images were imported. I did not.

    I am certainly not an expert on how any of this is done, but I assume all raw converters apply some kind of adjustment when a raw image is imported or, I expect, the image would not be anything like what we expect. I expected that the auto adjust checkbox would add to that underlying "basic" set of adjustments that C1, or any other raw editor, would add. What I can say is that some of the raw converters I use allow me to remove their basic adjustments and the resulting images are both very flat and very different from what I see in C1 and that leads me to believe that the auto adjustment setting does not control the basic set of raw conversions that C1 applies, but only some "extras" such as setting the highlights and shadows pointer values.

    Perhaps I am completely wrong about this. It certainly would not be the first time or, probably, the last, but that is what seems most logical to me, given what I am actually seeing. If I am wrong and, as I have said that might be very likely, I would appreciate knowing what is actually going on so I will not continue to be so ignorant about the on-going process. Knowledge, generally, is better than ignorance, even if it is not as blissful ...
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