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sharpening function

Rhys21
I have a problem on sharpening, I did apply a sharpening on a image and it shown on preview too, I have not check the box [ sharpening disable], however, the output shown no sharpen effect, anyone can help me on this case? thanks
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Comments

29 comments

Date Votes
  • Rhys21
    anyone face the same problem?
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  • Jonathan Gilbert
    Hello,

    Be sure to judge sharpening levels by viewing the image at 100% in Capture One,. Because the previews are a much smaller version of the same image, the sharpening shows a disproportionate effect.
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  • Rhys21
    [quote="JonGilbert" wrote:
    Hello,

    Be sure to judge sharpening levels by viewing the image at 100% in Capture One,. Because the previews are a much smaller version of the same image, the sharpening shows a disproportionate effect.


    I have try to set the sharpen extremely, but nothing shown on output
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  • Rhys21
    before

    http://images1.fotop.net/albums/Rhys/forblog/before1.jpg


    set to extreme

    http://images1.fotop.net/albums/Rhys/forblog/extreme_setting1.jpg


    after process - output

    http://images1.fotop.net/albums/Rhys/forblog/output.jpg

    no sharpen applied ?!

    is that any problem?
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Rhys,
    What are your settings on the Output tab? Do you perhaps have a scale other/larger than 100%?
    There is a (known?) bug that when upscaling the output, sharpening is effectively disabled.

    Lovely cat picture by the way 😂

    Edit: I just created the following bug report which applies to both Mac and Win versions of CO4.1.1:
    "I did a series of scaling from 50-250% in 50% increments. From 150% and up sharpening seems to be applied less when upscaling is increased. At 150% there is slightly less sharpening but at 200 and 250% I found sharpening not being applied at all."
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  • Rhys21
    here is my out tab setting

    http://images1.fotop.net/albums/Rhys/forblog/process_tab.jpg


    Paul,

    Thank you ^_^ she's name Jajaa ^_^
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  • paulgh1
    [quote="Rhys" wrote:
    here is my out tab setting


    The screenshot shows you are viewing the cat scaled to fit the page. You are not viewing the image at 100%. As mentioned by others, to properly judge the appropriate sharpening settings, you have to zoom the preview to 100% to make your adjustments.

    That's the way it works in most other raw converters as well (Lightroom, ACR, Bibble, etc)

    Cheers
    Paul
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  • NN8930012
    [quote="paulgh" wrote:
    The screenshot shows you are viewing the cat scaled to fit the page. You are not viewing the image at 100%. As mentioned by others, to properly judge the appropriate sharpening settings, you have to zoom the preview to 100% to make your adjustments.
    Cheers
    Paul

    Paul,
    He is showing that screen to demonstrate his output parameters. It's his output that he has an issue with, not what is shown on-screen in C1.
    Sharp in C1, not sharp on output jpg.
    I'm afraid I don't have the answer though!
    Iain
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  • paulgh1
    [quote="imacken" wrote:

    Paul,
    He is showing that screen to demonstrate his output parameters. It's his output that he has an issue with, not what is shown on-screen in C1.
    Sharp in C1, not sharp on output jpg.
    I'm afraid I don't have the answer though!
    Iain


    Sorry. You are correct. 500% sharpening should do more than that! Maybe a corrupted settings file or something?

    I am having an issue with version 4.1. Phase One seems to have really boosted the sharpening of the previews out of all proportion, compared to v4.0. I actually went back to v4.0 because I cannot judge whether a shot is any good... due to massive oversharpening of the previews in v4.1.

    Cheers
    Paul
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  • Jonathan Gilbert
    ***Update***

    I looked into the issue a little further and I believe I can shed some light on what you all are experiencing.

    Sharpening on output is operating correctly and it is applied after scaling the image. This means that a larger output, say 200% scaling will look less sharp than 100% output because the unsharp mask that is being applied has the same radius. Smaller output will similarly look more sharp.

    There is a bug however with the way sharpening is applied to preview images below 67% in the viewer. Far too much sharpening is being applied so it does not correspond to the output. R&D is aware of this bug and is working on a fix.
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  • Rhys21
    [quote="JonGilbert" wrote:
    ***Update***

    I looked into the issue a little further and I believe I can shed some light on what you all are experiencing.

    Sharpening on output is operating correctly and it is applied after scaling the image. This means that a larger output, say 200% scaling will look less sharp than 100% output because the unsharp mask that is being applied has the same radius. Smaller output will similarly look more sharp.

    There is a bug however with the way sharpening is applied to preview images below 67% in the viewer. Far too much sharpening is being applied so it does not correspond to the output. R&D is aware of this bug and is working on a fix.


    thanks 😄
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  • paulgh1
    [quote="JonGilbert" wrote:
    ***Update***
    There is a bug however with the way sharpening is applied to preview images below 67% in the viewer. Far too much sharpening is being applied so it does not correspond to the output. R&D is aware of this bug and is working on a fix.


    That's definitely what I am experiencing. Looking forward to the bug fix.

    [quote="JonGilbert" wrote:
    ***Update***
    Sharpening on output is operating correctly and it is applied after scaling the image.


    I don't use C1 to scale images. But it seems to me that it would be better to sharpen before the scaling rather than after. As you have said, the radius will be wrong if you scale the image first.

    Cheers
    Paul
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  • bas1
    [quote="JonGilbert" wrote:
    ***Update***

    I looked into the issue a little further and I believe I can shed some light on what you all are experiencing.

    Sharpening on output is operating correctly and it is applied after scaling the image. This means that a larger output, say 200% scaling will look less sharp than 100% output because the unsharp mask that is being applied has the same radius. Smaller output will similarly look more sharp.

    There is a bug however with the way sharpening is applied to preview images below 67% in the viewer. Far too much sharpening is being applied so it does not correspond to the output. R&D is aware of this bug and is working on a fix.


    After opening C1 4.1.1. after the install, I experienced this awfull problem. How can I judge my editing in any decent way? I have set my sharpening for printing as default rather than set sharpening per individual photo. Any news about when this will be fixed, or give a link to the download of the previous version (yes I followed C1's recommendations and removed the previous version first...).

    Thanks,
    Bas
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Phase One software archive to download a previous version
    http://www.phaseone.com/Content/Downloa ... veWin.aspx
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  • David2121
    [quote="bigbird" wrote:
    How can I judge my editing in any decent way? I have set my sharpening for printing as default rather than set sharpening per individual photo.

    Given Jon's advice, it is clearly best to judge sharpening at 100%, which is pretty much standard advice with other software as well.

    Conventional wisdom has it that more sharpening is required for printing than for screen viewing, that is images sharpened for printing will tend to look over sharp on screen. Conventional wisdom also has it that sharpening at the RAW conversion stage should be moderate, or omitted entirely, if the processed images are to be subject to any subsequent editing, and sharpening for final output should be the very last stage in the workflow.

    In these circumstances, I regard the bug as annoying rather than terminal. And at least it is now acknowledged, and will be fixed 'somewhen' (as people say in these parts).
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  • bas1
    [quote="DavidB" wrote:
    [quote="bigbird" wrote:
    How can I judge my editing in any decent way? I have set my sharpening for printing as default rather than set sharpening per individual photo.

    Given Jon's advice, it is clearly best to judge sharpening at 100%, which is pretty much standard advice with other software as well.

    Conventional wisdom has it that more sharpening is required for printing than for screen viewing, that is images sharpened for printing will tend to look over sharp on screen. Conventional wisdom also has it that sharpening at the RAW conversion stage should be moderate, or omitted entirely, if the processed images are to be subject to any subsequent editing, and sharpening for final output should be the very last stage in the workflow.

    In these circumstances, I regard the bug as annoying rather than terminal. And at least it is now acknowledged, and will be fixed 'somewhen' (as people say in these parts).


    Yes, fully agree, and I am aware of this. However, my workflow is that I use C1 to developed my RAWs in JPGs and that is where it ends. So I have set my default sharpening as for printing and only occassionally change this when necessary. Now I have to set my default to "no sharpening" or something like that, and for each image set the sharpening to my custom "printing settings". Terminal no, but not what you expect of an upgrade. i am sure you would agree on this.

    Bas
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  • David2121
    Bas

    [quote="bigbird" wrote:
    ... my workflow is that I use C1 to developed my RAWs in JPGs and that is where it ends. So I have set my default sharpening as for printing and only occasionally change this when necessary. Now I have to set my default to "no sharpening" or something like that, and for each image set the sharpening to my custom "printing settings".

    I understand your frustration over this. My own workflow treats C1 only as a RAW converter; whatever CO may say, I just don't think that it has the features, or, in some respects (e.g. metadata) the reliability, to function as a one stop workflow application. So, mostly, I only allow C1 to do limited sharpening, then use my real workflow application to produce final proofs for particular forms of output. This would not be realistic if I shot and kept huge numbers of RAW files, but I don't; I stick with JPEG for very large shoots (e.g. weddings).

    [quote="bigbird" wrote:
    Terminal no, but not what you expect of an upgrade. I am sure you would agree on this.

    I certainly agree that it is a reasonable expectation. Sadly, the standard of software that actually gets released means that the expectation is all too often confounded. CO are not the only, or indeed the worst, offenders in this regard, and they do respond constructively to support cases. It is often much more difficult to know whether the big boys (e.g. Adobe) have actually taken a problem on board.

    David
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  • paulgh1
    [quote="DavidB" wrote:

    I understand your frustration over this. My own workflow treats C1 only as a RAW converter
    David

    The bug that has been acknowledged in v4.1 is to do with the generation of previews (ie. not the actual sharpened output). For my purposes, I am actually quite satisfied with the sharpened output file and rarely do any extra work in photoshop.

    The problem with the bug in v4.1 is that it so oversharpens the preview when using "fit to screen" that I cannot judge colour adjustments and tone adjustments effectively. However, as there is nothing new in v4.1 that is useful to me, it is not a hassle to continue using v4.0 until it is fixed.

    Cheers
    Paul
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  • bas1
    [quote="DavidB" wrote:
    Bas

    [quote="bigbird" wrote:
    ... my workflow is that I use C1 to developed my RAWs in JPGs and that is where it ends. So I have set my default sharpening as for printing and only occasionally change this when necessary. Now I have to set my default to "no sharpening" or something like that, and for each image set the sharpening to my custom "printing settings".

    I understand your frustration over this. My own workflow treats C1 only as a RAW converter; whatever CO may say, I just don't think that it has the features, or, in some respects (e.g. metadata) the reliability, to function as a one stop workflow application. So, mostly, I only allow C1 to do limited sharpening, then use my real workflow application to produce final proofs for particular forms of output. This would not be realistic if I shot and kept huge numbers of RAW files, but I don't; I stick with JPEG for very large shoots (e.g. weddings).

    [quote="bigbird" wrote:
    Terminal no, but not what you expect of an upgrade. I am sure you would agree on this.

    I certainly agree that it is a reasonable expectation. Sadly, the standard of software that actually gets released means that the expectation is all too often confounded. CO are not the only, or indeed the worst, offenders in this regard, and they do respond constructively to support cases. It is often much more difficult to know whether the big boys (e.g. Adobe) have actually taken a problem on board.

    David


    Indeed, they way they treat support cases is excellent. I know of no other services like this. By the way, what programme do you use after C1?

    Bas
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  • bas1
    The problem with the bug in v4.1 is that it so oversharpens the preview when using "fit to screen" that I cannot judge colour adjustments and tone adjustments effectively. However, as there is nothing new in v4.1 that is useful to me, it is not a hassle to continue using v4.0 until it is fixed


    Indeed, I guess that is what I will do as well.

    Bas
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  • David2121
    [quote="bigbird" wrote:
    By the way, what programme do you use after C1?

    BreezeBrowser Pro (together with its companion Downloader Pro) have been the core of my workflow for several years now. A fairly basic, and somewhat-old fashioned, interface masks a Swiss Army knife range of functions, one of which is the capability to shell out to other programs with a single key stoke.

    So, after downloading with DL Pro, and previewing and culling in BB Pro, I shell out either to C1 or Photoshop (via ACR) to convert and possibly edit images. I then use BB Pro to generate proof copies for specific output, e.g printing, and possibly to do the printing as well. BB Pro has its own HTML generator which includes image generation, so I don't normally need to proof separately for the web.

    JPEG-only shoots work in much the same way, but obviously omit the RAW conversion stage. For large volumes of images, where one always wants to keep the time spent on individual editing to a minimum, aggressive culling and batch adjustment at the proofs stage (both of which are easy in BB Pro) are obviously important. I never delete or overwrite a usable original, so can go back and re-create proofs that go wrong.

    My reason for giving this detail is that I believe C1 is a reasonably good fit with BB Pro. For me, C1's worst vice is its abysmal handling of image metadata, but that can easily be put right in BB Pro, which has good facilities for batch copying metadata from the original RAW files to the conversions.

    Hope this is of interest.

    David
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  • Permanently deleted user
    When the sharpening bug is fixed, and the fix is released - How will I know?
    Kind regards,
    Eigil
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  • Jochen Kratschmer
    [quote="JonGilbert"] wrote:
    …Sharpening on output is operating correctly and it is applied after scaling the image. This means that a larger output, say 200% scaling will look less sharp than 100% output because the unsharp mask that is being applied has the same radius. Smaller output will similarly look more sharp.…[/quote]

    Jon, I observed the same problem with the Mac version. You're right: sharpening for upscaled images does occur but I have to increase the radius according to the bigger image size. Since there is no way of previewing the upscaled image on the screen and evaluating the sharpening effects on it, sharpening of upscaled images is like flying blind. Not a bug but definitely a missing feature. If sharpening is applied after upscaling there has to be a way to see the sharpening effects to the upscaled image on the screen before.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Jon Gilbert wrote: "There is a bug however with the way sharpening is applied to preview images below 67% in the viewer. Far too much sharpening is being applied so it does not correspond to the output. R&D is aware of this bug and is working on a fix."

    So, I got the terms "bug" and " fix" from Jon Gilberg - and hoped he would answer my question about, how I will ever hear about the release of this repair.
    Eigil
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  • Jonathan Gilbert
    Product releases are announced on our website, in newsletters, and discussed on the forum. Bug fixes are listed in the release notes.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Thank you, Jon Gilbert.
    Eigil
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  • Olivier3
    So, if I understand correctly, if I downscale my pictures like max H or W to 800 pix,
    the sharpening will be applied??

    Apparently not the case..

    I use version 4.1.2
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  • NN889057
    have they fixed this sharpening preview bug?
    i'm in version 4.6.3 and its still happening...


    Windows Vista Home premium...
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  • Eric Bleher
    seems to be fixed in 4.7, isn't it?
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