Trouble understanding C1 CM settings
I am confused. Please help me out...
I'm somewhat in the dark about an inconsistency I noticed w/ regard to color profiles.
First my color settings. In C1 Pro these are:
Camera Product: Nikon D200
Camera Profile: ? (see issue explained below)
Output destination: Adobe RGB (1998)
Web destination: sRGB
Proof destination: Adobe RGB (1998)
My monitor profile is the profile I created myself with dedicated monitor profiling hardware and software.
On the "process" tab of C1 Pro, I choose: convert to destination (which, given my settings, should be Adobe RGB (1998)).
In Photoshop my color settings are (to the extent relevant here):
Phaseone workflow and Adobe RGB (1998) working space.
My question is about the Camera Profile that C1 uses. If I process a RAW image using C1 Pro, there is a significant difference in both its appearance and its histogram between viewing it in C1 Pro and Photoshop. This discrepancy depends on the Camera Profile I set in the C1 Pro Color Management Settings dialog.
For a while, I had it set to the "Nikon D200 generic" profile - this is default once C1 Pro notices that this is indeed the camera I use. But I kept seeing significant discrepancies between my C1 Pro histogram and the one that appears after processing in Photoshop. The problem is mostly that shadows get clipped significantly (especially the blue and sometimes green channel) in the Photoshop histogram. That came as a surprise, because the C1 Pro histogram (in the exposure tab) shows no clipping - by a comfortable margin.
I guess what I'm trying to figure out is: if C1 Pro converts the color space of my image to the destination, what does it pre-suppose the image was shot in? (i mean: what conversion does actually take place? the destination space is known; what about the starting space?) If I hover the mouse over the thumbnail image, there is no EXIF field for color space. This is strange, because NikonView 6.2.7 does show the exif data to be as I dialed it into the menu of my camera: "Mode II, Adobe RGB". This makes me wonder: is C1 Pro aware what color space my image was shot in?
As stated above, my camera is set to Adobe RGB color space, color setting II (this latter setting is recommended for images that will undergo processing). I sometimes wondered whether this camera setting has any effect on RAW images (which are supposed to give you just the sensor data with no processing). Given this behavior of C1 Pro, I guess it does!
Because once I set my camera profile in C1 Pro Color Management Settings dialog to "Adobe RGB (1998)", the discrepancy is gone! What I see in C1 Pro's histogram is what I get in Photoshop's histogram.
So what's the story with that "generic" (D200) Camera Profile in the Color Management Settings dialog?
I'm somewhat in the dark about an inconsistency I noticed w/ regard to color profiles.
First my color settings. In C1 Pro these are:
Camera Product: Nikon D200
Camera Profile: ? (see issue explained below)
Output destination: Adobe RGB (1998)
Web destination: sRGB
Proof destination: Adobe RGB (1998)
My monitor profile is the profile I created myself with dedicated monitor profiling hardware and software.
On the "process" tab of C1 Pro, I choose: convert to destination (which, given my settings, should be Adobe RGB (1998)).
In Photoshop my color settings are (to the extent relevant here):
Phaseone workflow and Adobe RGB (1998) working space.
My question is about the Camera Profile that C1 uses. If I process a RAW image using C1 Pro, there is a significant difference in both its appearance and its histogram between viewing it in C1 Pro and Photoshop. This discrepancy depends on the Camera Profile I set in the C1 Pro Color Management Settings dialog.
For a while, I had it set to the "Nikon D200 generic" profile - this is default once C1 Pro notices that this is indeed the camera I use. But I kept seeing significant discrepancies between my C1 Pro histogram and the one that appears after processing in Photoshop. The problem is mostly that shadows get clipped significantly (especially the blue and sometimes green channel) in the Photoshop histogram. That came as a surprise, because the C1 Pro histogram (in the exposure tab) shows no clipping - by a comfortable margin.
I guess what I'm trying to figure out is: if C1 Pro converts the color space of my image to the destination, what does it pre-suppose the image was shot in? (i mean: what conversion does actually take place? the destination space is known; what about the starting space?) If I hover the mouse over the thumbnail image, there is no EXIF field for color space. This is strange, because NikonView 6.2.7 does show the exif data to be as I dialed it into the menu of my camera: "Mode II, Adobe RGB". This makes me wonder: is C1 Pro aware what color space my image was shot in?
As stated above, my camera is set to Adobe RGB color space, color setting II (this latter setting is recommended for images that will undergo processing). I sometimes wondered whether this camera setting has any effect on RAW images (which are supposed to give you just the sensor data with no processing). Given this behavior of C1 Pro, I guess it does!
Because once I set my camera profile in C1 Pro Color Management Settings dialog to "Adobe RGB (1998)", the discrepancy is gone! What I see in C1 Pro's histogram is what I get in Photoshop's histogram.
So what's the story with that "generic" (D200) Camera Profile in the Color Management Settings dialog?
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JohnnyB,
Review this Forum discussion on color management:
http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?t=2747
Your meta data indication of color space only pertains to in-camera processed image files = JPEGs so you're correct ... Raw IS Raw
For the D200, there are 2 profiles to choose as default in color management settings. Generic or Portrait The set profile will always load by the meta data that identifies the camera as D200
Regards,
k c0 -
I had already read the post you provided a link to before I posted by question. I feel my question is not addressed there. I am not trying to softproof an output device like a printer. I just want to consistently work in Adobe RGB (1998). If I want to softproof, I'll do it in Photoshop after I edit the image there.
The problem I'm having really only occurs when I get a histogram that looks different in Photoshop than it did in my RAW converter. Ensuring that these histograms are consistent would seem to be the "core business" of any RAW converter.
Can you explain what causes this difference in the shape of the histogram of the same image in different applications? (I don't think there's a mistake in my Color Management settings, whether in C1 Pro or in Photoshop.)
I assume that the "conversion" that takes place upon processing and opening in Photoshop (does an actual "conversion" take place?) must be responsible for the difference.
In photoshop you can choose to "assign" a profile to an image that has no color space associated to it, or you can "convert" an image's color space to a different one if a color space is assigned to it. What actually happens in C1 Pro? It would make sense if the selection of a certain camera profile in C1 Pro is equivalent to "assigning" a color profile in Photoshop. The subsequent processing of an image and sending it to an image editor would then be more like a "conversion" (again in Photoshop terminology).
Is this a correct representation of what C1 Pro does with color profiles between the importing of the file and the processing and exporting of it?0
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