iMac Retina 5K OpenCL support and performance
I have been looking into the new iMac retina 5K to replace my older iMac and wondered if anyone has any experience with the new machine.
I am looking into following initial configuration (will add more memory later) :
4.0GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
16GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x8GB
1TB Flash Storage
AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4GB GDDR5
Thunderbolt connected drives for photo storage with catalog/cache on main SSD drive.
Yosemite OS with Capture 7.2.4 (or 8 if needed)
Is there OpenCL GPU support for C1 7 or C1 8 for the video card listed above.
If needed to get GPU support I will upgrade to C1 8.
Does C1 support scaled UI elements so the menus and panels are not tiny? I think OSX handles this based on the display mode, but just want to make sure no known issues.
Also, has anyone noticed any performance issues in rendering four times as many pixels to support the larger display when making adjustments. People are having performance issues with Lightroom on the new machine since each adjustment/redraw cycle has to render more pixels and the only workaround is run LR in smaller desktop window. I assume C1 may have similar issue.
Any help on making a decision on this machine would be greatly appreciated.
I am looking into following initial configuration (will add more memory later) :
4.0GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
16GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x8GB
1TB Flash Storage
AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4GB GDDR5
Thunderbolt connected drives for photo storage with catalog/cache on main SSD drive.
Yosemite OS with Capture 7.2.4 (or 8 if needed)
Is there OpenCL GPU support for C1 7 or C1 8 for the video card listed above.
If needed to get GPU support I will upgrade to C1 8.
Does C1 support scaled UI elements so the menus and panels are not tiny? I think OSX handles this based on the display mode, but just want to make sure no known issues.
Also, has anyone noticed any performance issues in rendering four times as many pixels to support the larger display when making adjustments. People are having performance issues with Lightroom on the new machine since each adjustment/redraw cycle has to render more pixels and the only workaround is run LR in smaller desktop window. I assume C1 may have similar issue.
Any help on making a decision on this machine would be greatly appreciated.
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For Yosemite is CO8 a mandatory choice, CO7 is not supported. I have not read any experience with the 5K display and GPU support. You could open a support case to get a direct quote from Phase One (unless they chime in here). 0 -
please report your findings if you get an answer. I am looking to buy the same machine
thanks0 -
I bought one. It is configured with all available options (I7, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Radeon R9 M295X).
This is a great piece of hardware, especially for photographers. Images simply look mind blowing on this screen.
I am using it with a Wacom tablet and have tested it with Capture One 8, Capture NX2 and Aperture for a few weeks.
Images are mainly coming from a Nikon D800E with a files size of about 45 MB/RAW image.
The C1 UI doesn’t have any issues with the various retina display modes. Menus and panels always look brilliant.
Capture NX2 and Aperture are running very fast on this new machine. There is nothing to complain here.
However, this is not the case with C1. It has serious performance issues on my machine. Simple global adjustments are processed fairly good, but local adjustments with some pen/brush strokes will freeze C1 for several seconds. Painting masks with the Wacom is simply not possible. This will get even worse if OpenCL is enabled. I assume the new M295x graphics card is not supported yet.
Like already mentioned in the first post, you get a performance boost if you run C1 in a smaller desktop window. Using the display mode 2560x1440 helps as well to increase the performance of C1.
I have observed that C1 is constantly accessing the RAW files during retouching. I assume, that the maximum picture preview size (2880px) is too small for this high resolution screen. It doesn’t make any difference if you use a catalog with images on the local SSD, or a local catalog with images on an external drive.
In its current state, I can’t recommend C1 in combination with the new iMac 5K.
I hope, that Phase One will optimize their great product for the new iMac and resolve all current performance issues in the future.
Sorry for bad english
Rolf0 -
Drew or some one from Phase One cares to comment on this? I am sure there are several potentia customers that are looking at this machine. I am one
Alessandro0 -
We have a system similar to the Retina iMac mentioned. I can confirm OpenCL is running using the AMD GPU.
In general this is a great system for Capture One. When the screen contains 4x the number of pixels the performance (of final quality) is 4 times slower than previously. Fortunately the AMD GPU is used, helping out.
True, the mask drawing speed is not great, but we are continuously working to make this better.
For most other tasks the speed of the iMac retina is great, compared to most other Macs.
-Lionel0 -
I purchased 1 month iMac retina 5k in maximum configuration with C1 and confirm that the performance is disappointing.
For example with my Macbook (much lower performance than the 5k retina) have increased performance with C1.
Hopefully PhaseOne do something to use to best 5k retina
Greetings.0 -
I forgot for example using the function detects where the focus on the image with Macbook does it in a moment while we 5k retina They want to even 5-8 seconds !! 0 -
Any update on this? Is the current Fixed? Im looking to switch from Windows to Mac for image processing using a iMac Retina. 0 -
I'm curious about this too. Is C1 too power-hungry to be used on these beautiful machines? Maybe v9 is the version we are all craving here? 0 -
I was looking to buy the same 5K iMac with the 295X graphics. Need to keep this thread open until speed issues are addressed. BTW, I see in other forums Photoshop and Lightroom are having speed issues on the iMAc 5K's.
So, CO is not unique.0 -
Capture One people ... great product but do you listen to what your users are saying?
This performance issue has been going on for far too long. I recently bought an iMac 5K expecting a boost but C1 is all but unusable. I used Aperture from V1.0 but I love the C1 interface and user experience but performance just sucks!
When are you going to address this issue?
Can you at least provide tuning and / or configuration advice on how to set up iMac to mitigate this issue?
Do you plan to release a new version soon?
In desperation I'm looking at alternatives e.g. DxO but the learning curve seems too much effort as I've spent the time getting to grips with C1.
Please respond to this and let your long suffering Mac users know what you plan to do.
Thank you
John Rees
http://www.johnreesphoto.com0 -
[quote="johnerees" wrote:
Capture One people ... great product but do you listen to what your users are saying?
This performance issue has been going on for far too long. I recently bought an iMac 5K expecting a boost but C1 is all but unusable. I used Aperture from V1.0 but I love the C1 interface and user experience but performance just sucks!
When are you going to address this issue?
Can you at least provide tuning and / or configuration advice on how to set up iMac to mitigate this issue?
Do you plan to release a new version soon?
In desperation I'm looking at alternatives e.g. DxO but the learning curve seems too much effort as I've spent the time getting to grips with C1.
Please respond to this and let your long suffering Mac users know what you plan to do.
Thank you
John Rees
http://www.johnreesphoto.com
Have you raised a Support Case to ask for help?
It would mean the the C1 support and development people could collect information that may well be useful to understanding your problems and so perhaps develop some recommendations of the type you are asking for.
I ask because you have not mentioned any request for assistance and quite often we see examples of individual setups that don't seem to work very well when others work fine.
This is true for a number of applications across different operating systems. The possible combinations of hardware and software components is vast and untestable - so looking at individual problem cases is often the only way to go. Certainly it would require something more specific than "performance sucks" - which hardly gives a clue as to what the source of the problem might be.
I run on a notebook PC. The GPU is not powerful enough to be useful so it's CPU processing only and performance is fine.
There have been times when I wondered if I should look at Apple products rather than Windows based devices but the Mac experience does seem to be highly variable from user to user so I think I will stick with the PC path and save some money.
Grant0 -
The possible combinations of hardware and software components is vast and untestable
what a bold statement! Here we are mostly talking about the top configuration of iMac 5K (Retina iMac). And performance on that top of the line computer really sucks. There is no need for any support case to assertain it, just fire up C1Pro on any Retina iMac and see for yourself that everything is jerky and slow.
So if Phase One wants to be honest they have to either fix the performance issues, or issue a warning that users cannot expect any "professional" grade performance from C1Pro using Macs with hi-res (4-5K screens), even on top of the line 4Ghz machines with discreet GPUs.0 -
http://shumsky.info/share/screenshot.png
But after all what can we expect of an app that uses that much RAM, just importing 300 pictures into a newly created fresh catalogue! That's what I call efficient coding!0 -
[quote="NN635768188722166072UL" wrote:
http://shumsky.info/share/screenshot.png
But after all what can we expect of an app that uses that much RAM, just importing 300 pictures into a newly created fresh catalogue! That's what I call efficient coding!
I bow to your undeniable superior knowledge about hardware and software technology.
You are wasted here. You should offer your services to Phase One.
Grant0 -
What happens if the screen resolution is set to full HD?
I won't be surprised is performance is great then and that would be only logical. Don't pin it on C1,its just mathematics, 5 times more data means you need an even more powerful processor.
... every improvement is welcome of course but in my opinion putting the blame on only C1 seems unfair.0 -
Just wanted to weigh in here as I just bought a new 5K iMac (late-2015 model) and also just installed the latest version of C1 (8.3.4). My 5k Mac is the most suped up you can get currently (4.0ghz i7, 32gb ram, 4gb gpu, flash drive). I also have a Phase One P45+ back, which is what I'm using for the following observations.
I haven't put it to the full performance test yet, and probably won't as I shoot to a Retina laptop primarily when on location and have a different Mac I tether in the studio... this 5k is just for personal use... but right off the bat I have noticed two things:
1) It seems to "blink" more as I move from image to image, which can be very distracting, especially when you want to toggle shots or variants for tonal detail. I would prefer to wait until the next image is properly cached before seeing it (as Lightroom does), so I can better compare detail/tone between shots. (Currently, you're seeing one image, then the next 'fuzzy' image appears before it snaps to full preview, sometimes there is even a moment of black in between the two.)
2) It does not scale the image accordingly to the display resolution to suit the eye, but rather scales them exactly how they would appear in 5k resolution. I know this is confusing, but basically, when I look at one of my 40 megapixel images on my Thunderbolt Display, at 100%, I get amazing detail which allows me to see critical focus (among other things), but on my 5k display, the image is shown at half the size. I am used to hitting Opt+Cmd+0 to see 100% scale, and quickly check critical focus, but there is no shortcut (that I know of) to scale images to 200%, for the same effect on my 5k monitor.
I would love it if C1 had the option to double the resolution that images are displayed, so that I get the same experience I have on a Thunderbolt Display. Just using C1 for a short time today is making me long for an 80 megapixel back!
In summary, I would not consider using a 5k monitor in my studio for second observation noted above, as the images are just shrunk too much to really get the detail I need.0 -
rickett,
What operating system is on the new iMac? Do you have open CL on?
what is the preview size set at in preferences?
What resolution do you have set for the iMac?
Have you seen with the performances like when you add a local adjustment layer or two?
Thanks
Brian0 -
[quote="rickett" wrote:
Just wanted to weigh in here as I just bought a new 5K iMac (late-2015 model) and also just installed the latest version of C1 (8.3.4). My 5k Mac is the most suped up you can get currently (4.0ghz i7, 32gb ram, 4gb gpu, flash drive). I also have a Phase One P45+ back, which is what I'm using for the following observations.
I haven't put it to the full performance test yet, and probably won't as I shoot to a Retina laptop primarily when on location and have a different Mac I tether in the studio... this 5k is just for personal use... but right off the bat I have noticed two things:
1) It seems to "blink" more as I move from image to image, which can be very distracting, especially when you want to toggle shots or variants for tonal detail. I would prefer to wait until the next image is properly cached before seeing it (as Lightroom does), so I can better compare detail/tone between shots. (Currently, you're seeing one image, then the next 'fuzzy' image appears before it snaps to full preview, sometimes there is even a moment of black in between the two.)
2) It does not scale the image accordingly to the display resolution to suit the eye, but rather scales them exactly how they would appear in 5k resolution. I know this is confusing, but basically, when I look at one of my 40 megapixel images on my Thunderbolt Display, at 100%, I get amazing detail which allows me to see critical focus (among other things), but on my 5k display, the image is shown at half the size. I am used to hitting Opt+Cmd+0 to see 100% scale, and quickly check critical focus, but there is no shortcut (that I know of) to scale images to 200%, for the same effect on my 5k monitor.
I would love it if C1 had the option to double the resolution that images are displayed, so that I get the same experience I have on a Thunderbolt Display. Just using C1 for a short time today is making me long for an 80 megapixel back!
In summary, I would not consider using a 5k monitor in my studio for second observation noted above, as the images are just shrunk too much to really get the detail I need.
The image is shown at 100%, 1:1 pixels in the CO Viewer. You have many more pixels on your 5k, but at the same screensize, so your dpi is also much higher.0 -
[quote="rickett" wrote:
..... but there is no shortcut (that I know of) to scale images to 200%, for the same effect on my 5k monitor.
Well, you could use the viewer zoom slider to go up to 400%.
Or you could define a keyboard short cut if you prefer that idea - 200% or 400% available although of course sharpness will drop off a little at 200% and above. As usual.
Lots of processing to do though.
Grant0 -
I have been using Capture One on two new iMacs both with similar i5 cpu's and 32GB Ram, one has the 5K Retina display and that one is significantly slower than the other one. Zooming in and out takes 3-4 seconds on the Retina while the other one works almost instantly. I think this is totally unacceptable and I truly hope the Capture One team will resolve this SOON...
Also using Lightroom on same machines, and Lightroom performs much better than Capture One and I am not noticing any difference in performance between the two iMac's.
Anyone have any updates on this from Capture One since I prefer using Capture One over Lightroom but I can't stand using it on the Retina iMac ??0 -
[quote="Brian1" wrote:
rickett,
What operating system is on the new iMac? Do you have open CL on?
what is the preview size set at in preferences?
What resolution do you have set for the iMac?
Have you seen with the performances like when you add a local adjustment layer or two?
Thanks
Brian
I think those are the important question to be answered. Especially the one 'What resolution do you have set for the iMac?' Within OS X you can choose to scale the resolution. The default on the latest iMac 5K i7 e.g. is, 'Best for display', equals to scaled 'Best (Retina)'. This is not the tiniest setting that can be chosen (on an iMac 5K). Best for display is the middle setting indicating a resolution 2560x1440. So I guess that OS X is doing some scaling so that you can read what's written and displayed on your 5k monitor. And scaling takes it's time I think.0 -
[quote="AndyE" wrote:
So I guess that OS X is doing some scaling so that you can read what's written and displayed on your 5k monitor. And scaling takes it's time I think.
But it's a shame that C1 isn't able to handle this (as a pro Software) within the year the 5k iMac is available, while others have no (or less) problems with it on the same hardware!0 -
I guess (it seems) the OS is vector based and photos are pixel based?
C1 is handling it pretty well, it's just that the processing power should be at least equaly increased to the increase in pixels. There's no way you can blame software for the lack of processing power.
Please give a link to the "others" without or less problems, I'm very curious to their rigs / software and (display) settings!0 -
I know that there have are a lot of Pixels that have to be moved on a 5k retina screen.
Lightroom also struggled when the 5k iMacs have been released last year, but they managed to resolve the performance issues. And I've never heard of any Problems with the new Photos App or even the aged Aperture.
So in the end it seems to be a software issue, because no one can say that the new iMacs have slow hardware inside. Of course, the GPUs are Notebook GPUs, but even the slowest of them shouldn't be the bottleneck to display some RAW photos on a 5k screen. I mean we don't speak about heavy 4k video editing or extensive gaming!0 -
Did they really? Then ho come if you search for "imac 5k lightroom performance" you still get tons of complaints?
Can you give a link to the actual solution please? 😊
found it...
http://blog.tonyhartphoto.co.uk/lightro ... tina-imac/0 -
I am not certain there is a global problem. I am running a 5K with the 3.3 Ghz Core i5, AMD M290, 32 GB ram and El Capitan. Your basic 5K. I keep my application on a 500GB SSD and my Capture 1 catalog on an external hard drive connected via USB3. I shoot with a Canon 5dsr so I am using very large raw files. The catalog takes a little time to load, and there may be a very slight delay if make a number of quick adjustments to a specify image, but I do not think it is any slower than my older (2009) 27" iMac. 0 -
Rob
Do you have open CL on? What version of Capture One
what is the preview size set at in preferences?
What resolution do you have set for the iMac?
What software and hardware are using to calibrate your monitor?
Thanks Brian0 -
I am using Capture 8.3.4 and I turned on OpenCL after upgrading capture One and El Capitan to 10.11.1. I am using the default preview size of 2560px. I use the default resolution for the monitor as it seems to work with everything I do. I use a Color Munki display to calibrate my monitor. I set the luminance in the software to match the luminance of the paper I am using, and when that resulted in a darker screen than I like for regular use I bump up the brightness a couple of clicks. Always turning it down for photo processing so it will match my prints. 0 -
How do you turn on OpenCL? 0
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