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What´s about IPTC-Caption Part III

James31
This is the 3rd time I try to talk about using the IPTC in C1 pro - Since vers. 4.x this so simple to use tool (see all versions before 4.x) has been deformed. After talking to a guy from Phase One during the Canon roadshow in Germany and Austria a few weeks ago I have the impression that there is a big misunderstanding concerning the use of IPTC functions.

For some of the Photographers, especially for press-photographers, it is necessary to write a full description not only keywords. 1 example: A Canadian soldier (C) takes up a position under fire as an Afghan army machine gunner returns fire after their position was hit by Taliban shells during an ambush in the Zhari district of Kandahar province, October 23, 2007. Credit: REUTERS/Finbarr O'Reilly

It is nearby impossible to write whole sentences in this,about 2 cm field of the IPTC-description. It is also impossible to check for mistakes what has been written.

Remember the IPTC in vers 3.7.8 and before, simple to use clearly arranged and able to handle full sentences.... One program with all the tools I need.

Without a good IPTC-tool you discourage the whole prof guild of pressphotographers to buy a newer version.
Personally I still use vers. 3.7.8 because I have a perfect IPTC-tool with it.
With the next generation of cameras like Canon 1 D/Ds Mark IV and without RAW-support in vers. 3.7.8 I have to find a new Raw-converter - C1 vers 5.x is no option at the moment.

Is there any chance for a quick upgrade of the IPTC-tool???

james
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Comments

20 comments

Date Votes
  • Gerry Walden
    Sort of allied to this topic, I have raised the problem that V5 (and previous for all I know) strips out IPTC data added by other programs such as Photo Mechanic. I have raised this as a support case, but because I was travelling until today I have been unable to test EXACTLY what is happening as they requested. probably a job for the weekend.

    Gerry
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  • Alxy
    [quote="James31" wrote:
    This is the 3rd time I try to talk about using the IPTC in C1 pro -
    For some of the Photographers, especially for press-photographers, it is necessary to write a full description not only keywords. 1 example: A Canadian soldier (C) takes up a position under fire as an Afghan army machine gunner returns fire after their position was hit by Taliban shells during an ambush in the Zhari district of Kandahar province, October 23, 2007. Credit: REUTERS/Finbarr O'Reilly
    james

    I tried this exact description. Once it is entered I can point my mouse at the field and I will see the whole sentence, which fits my screen. At 1920x1200 resolution I can see may be 30% more that this.

    I found that IPTC data is read from Nikon NEF (RAW) files, but for some reason if I go from one image to another in different folder the data is displayed for the previous image. I have to click on another image in the same folder and then back then the data will be displayed correctly.

    Keywords created in other programs cannot be removed though. Other data can be overwritten.
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  • James31
    Dear Alxy, what you describe ist true but this works only if you sit at home/office and you have all the time in the world to make the descriptions of 2-3 pictures. But if you are on the spot with your laptop on your knees and you are in a hurry to move you pictures to a daily newspaper or an online news-service or a newsagency you have absolute no time to play with your software or to wait until you are at the office with the 24" screen - on the spot you have to be a good photographer a quick desktop publisher a trusted editor and a well versed technician to move your full edited pictures from wherever you are and as soon as possible...

    There is no reason to reinvent the wheel, there was already a good IPTC-tool for years, just implement it in the newest version and its perfect.
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  • Gerry Walden
    I must admit James that if I were in your situation the last program I think I would consider is C1V5 when Photo Mechanic does such a superb job!

    Just to update things, I have been in constant contact with Phase One in NY (I think) and have supplied them with files that have had IPTC data added by Lightroom, Aperture and Photo Mechanic. They are trying to resolve the problem and, in fairness to them, seem to realise the concerns felt and to be anxious to resolve the issue.

    Gerry
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  • Martin312
    Gerry et al

    I too have had direct contact with support and they do finally seem to be taking it seriously. Hopefully the (imminent?) release will be a major improvement but it sounds as though it will not be the full answer. I supplied a detailed work flow and supporting notes.

    The problem has been that one could never rely on what IPTC capability would exist from release to minor release. One had to do a full test before using it for real. As I confirmed to support this week they can take all metadata processing out of C1Pro as far as I am concerned. All I want it do is pick up WHATEVER is in the RAW file and pass it reliably to the output file. I will use PhotoMechanic to maintain my metadata, just pick it up and pass it on even if I edit it after viewing the images in C1.

    I think they have finally got the message but it has taken well over a year of badgering and pain.

    It sounds as though 5.1 is well down the development track so the definitive changes may be a release or two away but hopefully before version 6.

    Here's to a better Capture One New Year!
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  • Gerry Walden
    What frustrates me is that the program really is SO good, and yet this pretty basic item is not yet sorted, and they are on Version 5!

    Gerry
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  • Martin312
    Absolutely Gerry, and yet for the time version 3 was actually very good. It would still be better than what has been on (and off) offer in versions 4 and 5 for the last 18 months.
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  • Martin312
    On reflection I think Phase One are missing a major trick here. Rather than try to build an all-singing, all-dancing package in competition with Adobe. Probably a fools errand as I do not think Phase One have the resources to compete head-on with an established market leader like Adobe.

    Phase One should be building an open architecture that allows users to use best of breed solutions for the other elements, IPTC editing, DAM etc. The technology has been around since at least version 3 of Windows; more than a decade. Service based architectures are now viable and it is something I was arguing for in the 1990s and before - even included it in a book on IT strategy I wrote in 1997. Turn Photoshop (, Gimp or w.h.y) into a Capture One plug-in/service!

    IMatch DAM sort of does that with Capture One and Photoshop - I can select an image and when I open the tool it goes to that image. (I am currently trialling iMatch: seems complex but powerful)

    Even Photoshop and my browser (firefox) allow plug-ins as a half-way house. Now Capture One as an alternative to ACR as a plug-in to PhotoShop? Actually I am about to examine the alternativs to PS - I currently use CS2 and it is difficult to justify the upgrade cost for the limited use I make of it - a bit of cropping, fine tuning exposure/colour balance, sharpening and removing dust spots. Anybody have any suggestions - I am thinking about trying Gimp initially. I have had good experience of Open Source software for my web sites.
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  • Gerry Walden
    To continue this discussion, I have just posted this to Phase One:

    "I used C1V5 today to add IPTC data (keywords, caption etc.) FOR THE FIRST TIME and have found that is also does not export this information embedded into a jpeg so that is MAJOR in my book.

    Gerry"

    I tested the exported jpegs in Photo Mechanic and this is just a TOTAL FAILURE! I am very disappointed as for a stock shooter it makes the program a real pain, and it does not, in my opinion, live up to the specification advertised!

    Gerry
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  • Gerry Walden
    I have just done a very quick test and it would appear that if you apply data in C1V5 to a .dng file then that data is exported - it certainly is to Photo Mechanic. This may be a useful temporary way forward if you want to apply IPTC data to raw files - but no guarantee.
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  • Henry1
    Have to agree that the IPTC module in V3.7.8 is quite sufficient for me and hope Phase will get an equivalent of it back into V5 soon.
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  • Gerry Walden
    I have now been contacted again by Phase One, and they have told me that this issue will be addressed in V5.1, which they hope to beta test in January. I have been asked to be a beta tester, which I have agreed to. It is good to know that they are listening, and I am grateful for that.
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  • James31
    Gerry,

    that sounds good, please keep me posted whenever you got the beta of vers. 5.1.
    For me it´s their last chance. I have already downloaded lightroom 3. beta and what is also very interesting bibble 5 - with, what surprise, an usable IPTC module.
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  • Gerry Walden
    I will reply when and if I can. In the meantime I am loath to get too drawn in by LR3 because of its beta nature, and the fact that certain functions are not working. Bibble I have tried in the past and don't like because it baffles me (just a personal thing). Aperture I have also abandoned. In my book C1V5 is the best processor but there is more to a professionals life than processing from raw, and it ALL has to work to maintain a smooth workflow for me.

    Gerry
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  • Drew Altdo
    I would like to point out and acknowledge Gerry's help and patience with us. He has worked with us back and forth with many exhausting questions and methods. He has provided several documents and detailed testing methods to the support department in the US as well as several programmers in Denmark. Gerry's assistance has been exceptional and should be accredited.

    James,
    I'm sorry to hear that you are out of patience with Capture One. However there does not seem to be any documentation of support cases from your account. We would certainly like to regain your favor in regard to IPTC data and if you can contact us as Gerry has we will be better prepared to meet your expectations.
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  • Gerry Walden
    Drew

    Thank you for the acknowledgement. I am just selfishly trying to sort it for myself, but I am also (of course) pleased that I am also hopefully able to help others.

    I would add that Drew has done everything he can to keep me happy, and I would urge anyone else with problems to make a 'support case' out of their enquiry.

    Gerry
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  • James31
    Gerry

    seems that you are the right guy to mediate with the developers an software engineers, what is not so easy 😉

    Drew

    I´m not out of patience and I will try to tell you why, it´s a long story of a longtime C1pro user but I also try to make it as short as possible. 🙄

    With the 1st canon EOS 1Ds I discovered Phase One software C1. You where the first and of course the best (for me until today.)
    I made my upgrades always I got a new EOS1Ds and I have to admit I was absolute happy.

    At a certain moment the C1 pro vers 4.x has been announced in the forum by mail and in different media. It should be a revolution and it became a disaster, Phase one lost a lot of good people had to hire and implement about 50 new people (that was my info at that time) Introducing 50 people in a project takes time, much time - much much more time than expected and all announced schedules became wrong.

    At this time I had no major problems because 3.7.1 was working fine and had all I needed.
    Then Canon presented the new EOS 1 Ds MarkII an I had no software to work with, 3.7.1 had no profile for the new RAW-generation and C1 vers4 was not ready yet.
    I had to wait before buying the new cam. After a few (long) months Phase one announced, not the final version 4.x, but a version 3.7.4 with new camera-profiles.
    At this moment again everything was fine an I was waiting for the revolution, version 4.x. When my memories are right we where waiting more than 2 and a half years for version 4.x. In the meantime Canon released EOS 1Ds MIII and C1 vers 3.7.8. and that was fine again... I would still use 3.7.8. with my Canon EOS 1D MIII and Ds MIII
    but since a few days I have a non-working version 3.7.8 (This pre-release software version has expired - the y2k bug 10 years later...), Canon released generation Mark IV and I have to take a decision for the future.

    I´m not out of patience I simply need a new software, for now and for the future, witch offers at least those things my last working version 3.7.8. had - a good image processing and an usable IPTC module.

    I am now since more than 25 years in my business, what I need for my work, and I think it´s not only me because I already know more and more colleagues, also pressphotographers, which use RAW-files for their work. When you want to work for Newspapers, Magazines, Agencies, and especially for news-agencies 1st you have to be quicker than all the others; 2nd, it is essential to deliver good pictures (with regard to content and technical quality) and 3rd with a complete IPTC-caption. Without that they trash your pictures or in the worst case they send the money to another guy 😉 .

    For me C1 was always my favorite because it was an ALL IN ONE software, from the moment I loaded the pictures to my computer until I moved them to my online database or medias - I needed ONE software - C1! At the beginning there was only Phase one offering a good Raw-conwerter, they had the ideas and where able to implement them into a great software. Now I have the feeling that you are copying to much from others, the IPTC-module is for me the best example. There was a nearby perfect IPTC-Tool but it got lost for what reason ever... and we got the same unusable tool you can find in other software.

    So I think I am not such an impatient guy. I had only a dream of an all in one software for my pix and now I want you to tell me that it becomes true ...(again).

    with the best regards
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  • Drew Altdo
    James,
    Again, this forum thread seems to be the only place where your personal concerns are brought to light. As this is a User to User forum, you would be better served contacting us directly (support case) as appose to passively waiting for the results you expected from us. If you would like to provide us examples and specific information to your workflow through a support case we would be more than happy to address it in an official manner.
    Stating your case on the Forum is a great way to rally people behind you but unless contact is made through the correct channels the chatter remains a User to User issue.
    We're still happy to take a look at your specific needs through a support case and if it's not too late we may be able to implement those changes in a future release of Capture One.
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  • James31
    Drew

    ok got the message, will open a support case right now.

    best regards
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  • James31
    loading vers.5.1 - A Multiline fields the metadata tool is announced - I am really curious about the new IPTC-tool...
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