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Exported TIFF saturation/highlights higher?

Boris Sheikman
I exported a TIFF in the sRGB color space and I noticed that the highlights and saturation are slightly different/higher than what I see in the original DNG with all my processing applied. Even the histogram looks different.

Is this normal? Are exported TIFF images suppose to look different than the source DNG with all adjustments applied?

Thanks! 😊
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Comments

23 comments

Date Votes
  • VirtualRain
    I wonder if it's related to this bug...
    viewtopic.php?f=55&t=18211

    Contact Support.
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  • HansB
    Could it be related to the color space used in the TIF?
    RAW does not really have a color space, it's sensor data. But for TIF, it is usually translated into Adobe RGB or sRGB.
    Create both from the same RAW image, and the histograms in PS are completely different. I've done so with one of my images.


    Regards,
    Hans-B.
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  • George Brooks
    sRGB is a pretty small color space so, yes, you can expect some shifts. However, if the selected process recipe is using sRGB, then capture one will render previews in that color space. Try exporting to Adobe RGB and see if you get the same issue, and then try changing your rendering intent (perceptual vs relative colometric).
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  • Boris Sheikman
    Thanks, everyone, for your replies! 😊

    I tried selecting the sRGB, Adobe, and Embedded Camera ICC profiles. Each one created the same effect. Just for grins I tried exporting to TIFF and JPG and the effect is visible there too. This effect is very easy to see when flipping back and forth between the original DNG and the exported JPG/TIFF. I imported the exported file back into Capture One and used Capture One to flip back and forth.

    I created two screen grabs to show this effect. Everyone is welcome to download them and flip between them. Pay attention to my son's hair by the mechanical pencil. The hair in the exported rendering is brighter than what is seen in the DNG rendering.

    Here is the DNG rendering.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/jc87sbuuwj7r7 ... g.jpg?dl=0

    Here is the exported rendering.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/a7dovp694mgvi ... g.jpg?dl=0

    Any clues?
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  • HansB
    I see the difference. It is only in the fine detail, like hair. Could you compare to an export with disabled sharpening in the export recipe? Sharpening might increase the visibility of the single hairs.

    Output Tab - PROCESS RECIPE - Adjustments - Disable Sharpening.


    Regards,
    Hans-B.
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  • George Brooks
    I think Hans is right, this looks like it has to do with sharpening more than anything.
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  • Boris Sheikman
    Finally got some free time to experiment some more.

    I disabled sharpening in the "Edit With" dialog. The resulting TIFF no longer displays the accented highlights but details like eyelashes and hairs are softer now. When I add in the sharpening to the TIFF I get the same goofy accented highlights. I end up in the same spot no matter which path I take.

    Is Capture One incapable of exporting a "what you see is what you get" TIFF from the DNG? Or, is the processed DNG that I am seeing incorrect to begin with and the highlights are actually highlighted but the software doesn't display them due to a poor preview image?

    I never had this issue with Apple Aperture. The JPG and TIFF images I exported look exactly the same as the DNG in Aperture.

    This makes me question the accuracy of the export. ❗ī¸

    However, to my own discredit, because I never noticed this before I feel like I am missing a critical skill in seeing. I simply assumed everything was fine and making assumptions are sometimes a bad idea. ☚ī¸
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  • PhaseoneUser55657
    One thing I have found, is do not trust the previews in CO8, a fit screen preview in CO8 can look totally different from one produced from a TIFF output viewed in PS. I went around and around for this for a long time, trying to figure out why the image in CO8 was really different when viewed in PS. I had an image that I had clarity/sharpening turned up on a layer very high, in CO8 at Fit Screen (2880 preview size) looked really good. While the preview when viewed as fit screen, that I had exported to PS was bad (No other word for it). I went back and forth, trying to figure things out. Finally brought both images up at 100%, and yes CO8 and PS look the same. (Both really bad). I seems like CO8 was throwing away a lot of detail and colors as it created the Preview image.

    Moral of the story, I no longer trust CO8 previews (when viewed at FIT SCREEN) to give me idea of what the picture is, I aways view at 100%.

    So look at your two images, at 100% and see how it matches, you might find CO8 and PS are the same, and just being thrown off by the preview.

    Robert
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  • Josh Bailey
    I completely agree with the preview image at fit not display the right exposure/saturation/colour. It just makes editing really tedious when I cannot see the whole image at once while doing colour work lol. It almost makes my workflow impossible to use Capture One and I really don't want to use lightroom even though LR displays the correct preview.
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  • VirtualRain
    I've witnessed the same issues with the Preview in the Viewer at Fit...

    Please submit bug reports to Tech Support in the hopes that they will figure out what's going on and fix it!
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  • Josh Bailey
    I read your post in the other thread concerning the same issue. It is good to know that your reply from Customer Support stated that the dev team know of the problem and are working to fix it for an upcoming release. 😁 Which means that my three days left in trial seem less scary to purchase now lol
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  • Boris Sheikman
    [quote="FirstName" wrote:
    I completely agree with the preview image at fit not display the right exposure/saturation/colour. It just makes editing really tedious when I cannot see the whole image at once while doing colour work lol. It almost makes my workflow impossible to use Capture One and I really don't want to use lightroom even though LR displays the correct preview.


    Maybe I missed this ... so the problem I am seeing is not because of the actual data in the TIFF but only in the preview window of Capture One when I am in zoom-to-fit mode? 🤓 So the files are actually just fine when I open them in other viewers? I trusted that zoom-to-fit view! It looks like I have some more experimentation to do.
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  • Josh Bailey
    Fingers crossed the bug fix update is out soon so I can go further with Photoshop 😄
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  • VirtualRain
    Seems like there are at least a few different bugs going on here. There's an issue with exporting TIFFs, there's a problem with the viewer reliability (which in my study is related to viewer window size, preview size, and possibly display size) and there's also an issue with TIFF import colours being off.

    I hope they get these addressed soon because there's nothing worse than not being able to trust what you're seeing. And working at 100% all the time is not an acceptable work-around.
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  • Josh Bailey
    Yep, I need to see the entire image while editing overall adjustments. All my edited images in capture one look amazing, export and they look desaturated and sometimes higher exposure in some areas. As soon as I can get an export looking the same as fit zoom in C1 I will be super happy. Two days left on trial, I am hoping to hear from my support ticket to confirm for myself a fix is on the way before I press the purchase button though.

    I did another test. I created a new variant with all adjustments reset and exported as a tiff 16bit ProPhoto. The tiff was the same as fit to view. It seems that adjustments / local adjustments are messing with the fit to zoom viewer
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  • VirtualRain
    [quote="FirstName" wrote:
    Yep, I need to see the entire image while editing overall adjustments. All my edited images in capture one look amazing, export and they look desaturated and sometimes higher exposure in some areas. As soon as I can get an export looking the same as fit zoom in C1 I will be super happy. Two days left on trial, I am hoping to hear from my support ticket to confirm for myself a fix is on the way before I press the purchase button though.

    I did another test. I created a new variant with all adjustments reset and exported as a tiff 16bit ProPhoto. The tiff was the same as fit to view. It seems that adjustments / local adjustments are messing with the fit to zoom viewer


    Yeah, I can recreate issues with the viewer simply by resizing it (by adjusting the size of the browser)... here's a video I recorded... http://youtu.be/KTDrXqkQiqs
    ... Watch the amount of green in the big tree trunk disappear. I've since found this behaviour is a problem on any image... Even one with no adjustments, although it's more noticable on green tones. It's maddening. ☚ī¸

    I'm not buying until this gets resolved along with a couple of other bizarre issues like being unable to zoom to 100% because C1 thinks my image is only as big as the preview. When your only work around to the problem above is to work at 100%, you can see how the combination of these two makes the app largely unusable.
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  • Josh Bailey
    Thanks for posting that with the video, my support ticket asked for the link to this thread so they can do some problem solving. Your example shows clearly what the problem is on my end. Thanks
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  • SFA
    Maddening as it may be try as I might I can't see this behaviour on my Windows 7 system using a regular size screen (1920x1080).

    I would therefore surmise that that such behaviour seems to be configuration specific for some reason. Whilst I can sympathise with anyone who has a lot invested in expensive hardware and would like to be able to use it fully it seems only reasonable to point out, for the benefit of the many others not in that happy position, that they are unlikely to see a problem.

    Presumably in the near future we would expect to see this problem resolved for everyone under normal situations. Whether Google searches and YouTube videos will document the change is a different matter. Eventually it becomes ever more difficult to separate current facts from past facts which can be less than helpful to new searchers.


    Grant
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  • VirtualRain
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Maddening as it may be try as I might I can't see this behaviour on my Windows 7 system using a regular size screen (1920x1080).

    I would therefore surmise that that such behaviour seems to be configuration specific for some reason. Whilst I can sympathise with anyone who has a lot invested in expensive hardware and would like to be able to use it fully it seems only reasonable to point out, for the benefit of the many others not in that happy position, that they are unlikely to see a problem.

    Presumably in the near future we would expect to see this problem resolved for everyone under normal situations. Whether Google searches and YouTube videos will document the change is a different matter. Eventually it becomes ever more difficult to separate current facts from past facts which can be less than helpful to new searchers.


    Grant


    I use to think the problem was specific to me, but the increasing number of threads and posts from others complaining about viewer accuracy seems to indicate it's more widespread. There are a lot of new users coming from Aperture these days, which is bound to uncover new issues, particularly on Macs. And switching to a new RAW converter and DAM application is not one that should be taken lightly. It's a significant investment in money and time to become proficient... one that will hopefully last years. It's important to know the app works reliably the way you need it.

    At any rate, it's very possible that these issues are unique to Macs and/or retina displays? The more people that attempt to reproduce the issue and report their findings, the better it will be.
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  • Josh Bailey
    I get this problem on a non retina iMac (27-inch, Late 2012)

    27-inch (2560 x 1440)
    3.4 GHz Intel Core i7
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2048 MB
    24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
    Yosemite
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  • VirtualRain
    [quote="FirstName" wrote:
    I get this problem on a non retina iMac (27-inch, Late 2012)

    27-inch (2560 x 1440)
    3.4 GHz Intel Core i7
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2048 MB
    24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
    Yosemite


    Good to know, but sorry to hear that... Please submit a ticket with Tech Support... and link to this thread, my video, or whatever else you think might help. Thanks!
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  • Josh Bailey
    Well support tickets are not yielding any results and too spaced apart for my trial which expired.

    I realised also that capture one pro does not support 32bit files which I prefer to generate when merging HDR while Lightroom does. Crap looks like I have the obvious choice in front of me. For everyone else, I wish you the best of luck with getting this issue resolved.
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  • Josh Bailey
    New update still has pre existing viewer issues

    Downloaded C1 on my brother's laptop to see if things were fixed.

    The new color balance tool is nice
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