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Local adjustment high dynamic range controls

Permanently deleted user
I added the High Dynamic range tool to the Local adjustments pallet, but any changes to highlights or shadows
change the whole image ignoring the mask.....

Why is this happening?
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Comments

37 comments

Date Votes
  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="FredBGG" wrote:
    I did notice an inconsistency with the behavior of color balance vs curves when working with local adjustments.

    While a correction with curves results in tinted saturation set to 0 local adjustments,

    Color balance adjustments allow for untinted saturation set to 0.

    It may be simply a bug in the way curves are treated with subsequent saturation adjustments in an adjustment layer.

    Also when making Color Balance tool adjustments however the brightness of the local adjustment layer where areas are desaturated change in brightness and quite significantly, even areas that have no significant color to them. Why is this
    happening if the adjustment layer is working on RAW data?
    This behavior makes doing precise work tricky to do as one setting on the base layer alters finely set adjustments on local adjustment layers.


    First a general thing: Local Adjustments are still applied in the general pipeline order. We sum all the adjustments on a given pixel, so a pixel is only processed once.

    The brightness shift you see is natural thing when working below desaturated RGB. You will find the same behavior in PS (background-layer -> Curves adj layer -> Hue/sat adj layer (full desat)).

    I read the tint paragraph many times, can I get you to rephrase it as I don't understand the issue?
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:


    RGB implies that you store each pixel with RGB data (R=0-255, G=0-255, B=0-255). That is not the case with raw files. They are stored with their individual luminosity values. They can be computed into RGB taking into account the bayer/xtrans/etc pattern. Essentially a black&white camera is a normal sensor without the colorfilter (which will also increase the sensitivity 2 stops using the same sensor).


    This is misleading. When editing in photoshop the RAW file is converted either to 8 bit or to 16 bit.
    When converting to 16 bit the luminance values for each rgb channel are 65,535. As such very value in the RAW file can be represented.

    You are implying that Photoshop can only edit in RGB 8 bit. That is incorrect. Actually Photoshop can also edit HDR in 32bit floating point. With 32 bit floating point the values of several 16 bit exposures can be merged and represented in a single file.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    [quote="FredBGG" wrote:
    I did notice an inconsistency with the behavior of color balance vs curves when working with local adjustments.

    While a correction with curves results in tinted saturation set to 0 local adjustments,

    Color balance adjustments allow for untinted saturation set to 0.

    It may be simply a bug in the way curves are treated with subsequent saturation adjustments in an adjustment layer.

    Also when making Color Balance tool adjustments however the brightness of the local adjustment layer where areas are desaturated change in brightness and quite significantly, even areas that have no significant color to them. Why is this
    happening if the adjustment layer is working on RAW data?
    This behavior makes doing precise work tricky to do as one setting on the base layer alters finely set adjustments on local adjustment layers.


    First a general thing: Local Adjustments are still applied in the general pipeline order. We sum all the adjustments on a given pixel, so a pixel is only processed once.

    The brightness shift you see is natural thing when working below desaturated RGB. You will find the same behavior in PS (background-layer -> Curves adj layer -> Hue/sat adj layer (full desat)).

    I read the tint paragraph many times, can I get you to rephrase it as I don't understand the issue?


    True with curves, but I was talking about the Color adjustment tool (that is made up of hue and saturation sliders) altering
    luminosity values of a desaturated local adjustment.

    This does not happen in photoshop in a background layer > HSL adj layer (changing hue or saturation) > HLS layer (with saturation lowered to 0). The pipeline in photoshop is more flexible and more accurate.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:


    I have to repeat myself here, nothing in CO is destructive. We cannot satisfy everyone with regards to our internal layer-order, and this a pretty good case of that.


    Depends what you mean by destructive.

    What I am saying is that due to CO7 layers local adjustment pipeline some things done on the base layer are forced apron the local adjustment layer. True it is non destructive in the sense that you can go back to the base layer and remove the effect that is being "forced" on the local adjustment layer, but that defeats the purpose.

    What I am saying is that the pipeline is destructive to the pipe line and final image if certain tools are used on the base layer. After all what is most important is the final image. For the final image quality it is destructive or limiting. It can be undone, but only giving up certain desired and needed effects.

    So you are talking about it not being destructive to the original file, I am talking about destructive/limiting to the final processed file. That is the important one.

    So from an undo point of view you could say that CO is non destructive, but from a local adjustment layer and final image point of view some aspects are destructive/limiting (areas cannot be desaturated even if you set saturation to zero)
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="FredBGG" wrote:
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:


    RGB implies that you store each pixel with RGB data (R=0-255, G=0-255, B=0-255). That is not the case with raw files. They are stored with their individual luminosity values. They can be computed into RGB taking into account the bayer/xtrans/etc pattern. Essentially a black&white camera is a normal sensor without the colorfilter (which will also increase the sensitivity 2 stops using the same sensor).


    This is misleading. When editing in photoshop the RAW file is converted either to 8 bit or to 16 bit.
    When converting to 16 bit the luminance values for each rgb channel are 65,535. As such very value in the RAW file can be represented.

    You are implying that Photoshop can only edit in RGB 8 bit. That is incorrect. Actually Photoshop can also edit HDR in 32bit floating point. With 32 bit floating point the values of several 16 bit exposures can be merged and represented in a single file.


    I'm not implying anything. I'm explaining to you how things work. I did intentionally not mix any bit-depth into this discussion, but just mentioned the commen RGB range of 0-255. That numeric range is commonly accepted as default, also in PS, eventhough the image is 16 bit per channel.
    0
  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="FredBGG" wrote:
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    [quote="FredBGG" wrote:
    I did notice an inconsistency with the behavior of color balance vs curves when working with local adjustments.

    While a correction with curves results in tinted saturation set to 0 local adjustments,

    Color balance adjustments allow for untinted saturation set to 0.

    It may be simply a bug in the way curves are treated with subsequent saturation adjustments in an adjustment layer.

    Also when making Color Balance tool adjustments however the brightness of the local adjustment layer where areas are desaturated change in brightness and quite significantly, even areas that have no significant color to them. Why is this
    happening if the adjustment layer is working on RAW data?
    This behavior makes doing precise work tricky to do as one setting on the base layer alters finely set adjustments on local adjustment layers.


    First a general thing: Local Adjustments are still applied in the general pipeline order. We sum all the adjustments on a given pixel, so a pixel is only processed once.

    The brightness shift you see is natural thing when working below desaturated RGB. You will find the same behavior in PS (background-layer -> Curves adj layer -> Hue/sat adj layer (full desat)).

    I read the tint paragraph many times, can I get you to rephrase it as I don't understand the issue?


    True with curves, but I was talking about the Color adjustment tool (that is made up of hue and saturation sliders) altering
    luminosity values of a desaturated local adjustment.

    This does not happen in photoshop in a background layer > HSL adj layer (changing hue or saturation) > HLS layer (with saturation lowered to 0). The pipeline in photoshop is more flexible and more accurate.


    PS allows you to manipulate the layer-order, CO doesn't because of pipeline limitation. You will find that Camera Raw will have the same locked order.
    With regards to accuracy, I would like to an real-life picture-example of this?
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="FredBGG" wrote:
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:


    I have to repeat myself here, nothing in CO is destructive. We cannot satisfy everyone with regards to our internal layer-order, and this a pretty good case of that.


    Depends what you mean by destructive.

    What I am saying is that due to CO7 layers local adjustment pipeline some things done on the base layer are forced apron the local adjustment layer. True it is non destructive in the sense that you can go back to the base layer and remove the effect that is being "forced" on the local adjustment layer, but that defeats the purpose.

    What I am saying is that the pipeline is destructive to the pipe line and final image if certain tools are used on the base layer. After all what is most important is the final image. For the final image quality it is destructive or limiting. It can be undone, but only giving up certain desired and needed effects.

    So you are talking about it not being destructive to the original file, I am talking about destructive/limiting to the final processed file. That is the important one.

    So from an undo point of view you could say that CO is non destructive, but from a local adjustment layer and final image point of view some aspects are destructive/limiting (areas cannot be desaturated even if you set saturation to zero)


    I feel like we are going over the same again and again here. As I mentioned, CO will sum all adjustments to a pixel and apply it. The rest is pipeline design decisions.
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