what are the priorities? Why not fix stuff what is broken?
SO, I still have, as many of you do as well, problems with the management of files in catalogs. I have a case open with them at the moment, but basically we all know that moving files around, sorting them out and so on in catalogs, most of the times produces problems.
I have to wonder what goes into the minds of the lead team in prioritizing the path of development of Capture One, where the calibration of EIZO monito is so much more important than to fix and render solid the file management structure of catalogs.
A lot of professionals I talk to stay away from catalogs ( and I am beginning to lean with them) because they are unreliable, yet time and time again new features are added to C1, but this problem that we have since Version 7 is not fixed once and for all...
I really wonder what is the thinking behind this reasoning
I have to wonder what goes into the minds of the lead team in prioritizing the path of development of Capture One, where the calibration of EIZO monito is so much more important than to fix and render solid the file management structure of catalogs.
A lot of professionals I talk to stay away from catalogs ( and I am beginning to lean with them) because they are unreliable, yet time and time again new features are added to C1, but this problem that we have since Version 7 is not fixed once and for all...
I really wonder what is the thinking behind this reasoning
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Catalog / files management is also my biggest issue. The CO calibration of EIZO monitors only works with the CG monitors. I have a CG277 and the monitor will calibrate itself according to a schedule that I'm free to define (from everyday to whatever). Maybe it's just me but so far I didn't understand why I should do it out of CO and where is the special value of that function in CO? 0 -
I don't have an EIZO, but a NEC second display, but I have read that the Eizo displays calibration performed using C1 is related with defined values, that are : gamma 2.2, 5000 K, 120 cd/sqm, which could not comply with all the various conditions encountered by users.
As far as catalogs are concerned, their management could be far better, indeed, and the SQLite database improved or completely rethought. But they work well for my use, and I didn't encounter any problem. But I am not a professional, and I don't need the same requirements.0 -
I have no problems with the catalog till now but i agree about the priority. C1 is the number one for raw development but it is still not relaible with files management, keywords, metadata and so on, all the stuff we would like to have to work with the archive. I come from Aperture that was great in that... They made promises in the the past to ex Aperture users ... Not mainteined yet in my opinion . But i still pay and wait 0 -
[quote="giuliobig" wrote:
I have no problems with the catalog till now but i agree about the priority. C1 is the number one for raw development but it is still not relaible with files management, keywords, metadata and so on, all the stuff we would like to have to work with the archive. I come from Aperture that was great in that... They made promises in the the past to ex Aperture users ... Not mainteined yet in my opinion . But i still pay and wait
I agree. The catalog is by far the weakest point in C1. And it's odd, because they own the well respected Media Pro. I have, since C1 7, been hoping that they would bring Media Pro into C1.0 -
Bob,
My understanding is that there is NO advantage to using MediaPro if you are managing only your image files. MediaPro adds the ability to manage, in addition, PDFs TXT etc., so is a more comprehensive "Asset" manager. The more disappointing issue is the lack of RoundTrip capability between C1 and MediaPro.
From comments on one of the Webinars at C1, Dave said that MediaPro is not necessary once you get the hang of C1 catalog procedures. If we think of our photos as books in a library and the C1 catalog as a set of index cards, we realize that even if someone came along and destroyed the index cards, the books would still be there - although more difficult to find quickly. Not trying to be pedantic here, but it has taken me several months to get my own head around what to do since Aperture. The webinars and tutorials have been very helpful.
Cheers0 -
[quote="BillBooth" wrote:
Bob,
My understanding is that there is NO advantage to using MediaPro if you are managing only your image files. MediaPro adds the ability to manage, in addition, PDFs TXT etc., so is a more comprehensive "Asset" manager. The more disappointing issue is the lack of RoundTrip capability between C1 and MediaPro.
From comments on one of the Webinars at C1, Dave said that MediaPro is not necessary once you get the hang of C1 catalog procedures. If we think of our photos as books in a library and the C1 catalog as a set of index cards, we realize that even if someone came along and destroyed the index cards, the books would still be there - although more difficult to find quickly. Not trying to be pedantic here, but it has taken me several months to get my own head around what to do since Aperture. The webinars and tutorials have been very helpful.
Cheers
C1's cataloging features are poorly implemented, buggy, and in some cases incomplete as compared to Aperture. I have always hoped Phase One would take the technology in Media Pro and feed it into C1. Maybe C1 v10?0 -
As a long time Lightroom user, I too was frustrated with catalogs in C1 and then I remembered how much I hated catalogs when I first started Lightroom going from Camera Raw. I switched to using Sessions and to me anyhow, it's a much better way to work and much more stable. Honestly, I don't want anything to do with a catalog ever again! I do also use windows 10 though and count on the folder structure. Some have told me they don't like mac's folder structure in comparison, so maybe that's why you'd want to use catalog? Just my two cents 0 -
[quote="Canon_Shoe" wrote:
As a long time Lightroom user, I too was frustrated with catalogs in C1 and then I remembered how much I hated catalogs when I first started Lightroom going from Camera Raw. I switched to using Sessions and to me anyhow, it's a much better way to work and much more stable. Honestly, I don't want anything to do with a catalog ever again! I do also use windows 10 though and count on the folder structure. Some have told me they don't like mac's folder structure in comparison, so maybe that's why you'd want to use catalog? Just my two cents
It depends on what you are doing : if you shoot fine art or architecture, it is very useful to have the possibility of retrieving pictures made at any place or time within the last months or years, and in that case the filters and research fields are very, very useful, provided you have only one catalog.
If you do packshots or weddings, or projects limited in time with a client, sessions are the good way to proceed.0 -
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
if you shoot fine art or architecture, it is very useful to have the possibility of retrieving pictures made at any place or time within the last months or years
That's true regardless of what we might shoot - there's nothing unique or "special" about those subjects that make their DAM requirements different.0 -
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
[quote="Canon_Shoe" wrote:
As a long time Lightroom user, I too was frustrated with catalogs in C1 and then I remembered how much I hated catalogs when I first started Lightroom going from Camera Raw. I switched to using Sessions and to me anyhow, it's a much better way to work and much more stable. Honestly, I don't want anything to do with a catalog ever again! I do also use windows 10 though and count on the folder structure. Some have told me they don't like mac's folder structure in comparison, so maybe that's why you'd want to use catalog? Just my two cents
It depends on what you are doing : if you shoot fine art or architecture, it is very useful to have the possibility of retrieving pictures made at any place or time within the last months or years, and in that case the filters and research fields are very, very useful, provided you have only one catalog.
If you do packshots or weddings, or projects limited in time with a client, sessions are the good way to proceed.
I suppose that could be useful, but I generally keyword my folders and can find it with windows search. 99% of the time though, I know which folder I'm looking for for a specific image, but I'm normally doing fine art landscapes0 -
I totally agree: i.m.h.o. it is time for a "feature freeze" to spend some dedicated time on fixing bugs. The non-functioning filter function of the catalog is just one of them... 0 -
The keyword fiasco in C1 has finally pushed me back to Lightroom. For me, good cataloguing and key wording are essential features even at the expense of better RAW rendering "out of the box".
Yes, I lost all my adjustments and the imported keywords were as much a mess as they are in C1, but it didn't take me long to get them all sorted out as they should be, and they have stayed that way, unlike in C1 where the keyword list has a mind of its own.
If Phase One can fix this soon I will probably move back, but if it drags on they will have lost a customer for good.0 -
When I was still using aperturee, I would spend much of my little free time on photograghy.
Over the last year, witth COP8 and then COP9 I haven't done much of anything. Mostly just tried to usnderstand why the SW was so slow and figure out what to do with the keyword problem, does it make sense to switch to yet another tool.0 -
[quote="M4rtijn" wrote:
I totally agree: i.m.h.o. it is time for a "feature freeze" to spend some dedicated time on fixing bugs. The non-functioning filter function of the catalog is just one of them...
YES, YES, YES!!!!!
I'm got two licenses, one for C1 v7 and one for C1 v 8. I won't be upgrading until they stop this lousy feature focus and fix the details that are poorly programed in. How long do I have to wait for something like when making my screen full frame and then having to go hunt around to make the browser and the tools visible. This should be sticky! On my demo of v9 I can't get rid of the pop-up for "tutorials for pro's and beginners". The check mark is there .. but you can't use it.
Capture one is like a continually under baked loaf of bread, except each new loaf has a few more raisins of "higher quality" advertised. I won't go to lightroom only because I don't like Adobe's ways, but I'm not going to spend another dime with Phase one until the fix the innane UI details.
I know that version 10 won't sound like such a glamorous upgrade when it's advertised "we finally fixed all the stuff that was never done right' ... but Do that finally please. Man up!0 -
well I am glad to have started this discussion. Hopefully the board of directors or the head of development of Capture One will take notice.
Really guys, fix what is wrong and lets move one from there0 -
[quote="alececco" wrote:
Hopefully the board of directors or the head of development of Capture One will take notice.
A handful of folk grumbling online about one creaky feature won't make a blind bit of difference.
It took years of complaining, dozens of threads, hundred and hundreds of posts and umpteen support cases about Capture One's profiles and colours - which is a show-stopper in a way that flaky keywording is not, given that Capture One is a (supposedly class-leading image quality) converter first, a DAM solution second - before Phase One even acknowledged the problem, so this thread won't even register.
And there are still IQ problems with profiles and colours.
As to a feature freeze? Won't happen, and it's (y)our fault.
As soon as any product like Capture One goes into development slow motion, the first thing that happens is interminable complaining about lack of development. Simply put, Phase One (and DxO, and Adobe, and PictureCode, and the rest of them) are under constant pressure to churn out the new, and quickly.
And if a given user isn't affected by the fault that generates the suggestion of a feature freeze, why should he be disadvantaged?
Can't have it both ways.
Know what I did to address my ongoing dissatisfaction with Phase One's unwillingness to address issues in Capture One of importance to me?
I've pretty much stopped using it - anything like I use to - and I didn't upgrade to Capture One 9. They don't get my money any more.
Feels good, and my images have benefited greatly from the decision to make another converter my first choice...
(I will say, in fairness to Phase One, that I have seen improvements over the years in certain significant IQ related issues I've pushed them on - like noise reduction quality and highlight recovery, both of which battles we eventually won - but again, they're likely to be of greater concern to the majority than DAM issues).0 -
The best way to get the broken stuff fixed is filling in the current feedback form. 0 -
[quote="FL" wrote:
The best way to get the broken stuff fixed is filling in the current feedback form.
That's the theory. There seems to be some difference between theory and actual observation.0 -
What's 100% sure is that nothing will get fixed simply by posting here. 0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
What's 100% sure is that nothing will get fixed simply by posting here.
Yep - and as Alec should know by now, posting merely to vent is against the rules.
Rule 10, to be precise:
"10 Do not post a message merely to blow off steam or otherwise get something off your chest. This is a support, user to user help and resource area, if you have something to take up with a dealer then take it up with a dealer, if you have something to take up with Phase One then please take it up with Phase One".0 -
[quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
That's the theory. There seems to be some difference between theory and actual observation.
Probably not - but as we all know, the number of support cases raised about a given fault directly influences the resources Phase One will put to addressing it.
I suspect this one just isn't very high on Phase One's priority list, because not many users are affected by it badly enough to raise a support case.0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
[quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
That's the theory. There seems to be some difference between theory and actual observation.
Probably not - but as we all know, the number of support cases raised about a given fault directly influences the resources Phase One will put to addressing it.
I suspect this one just isn't very high on Phase One's priority list, because not many users are affected by it badly enough to raise a support case.
Keith I beg to differ. Lots of professional guys stay away from catalogs because it is unreliable. While they might not have problems per se ( if they do not use it) they are certainly not happy. Karma and good will go a long way in software, and while today C1 is the one reference program, you don't know what tomorrow will bring in terms of competition...0 -
The basis of this thread concerns me. I was a long-time Aperture user that has been investing a large amount of time this year learning to edit in C1P. I have yet to fully launch C1P's library management features and it is discussions like this that make me worry about doing so. I have heard time and time again that C1P's DAM features are lacking or are flawed.
My catalog, keywording, organization, etc are very important to me. I'm scratching my head trying to decide what to do...0 -
[quote="sky_guy" wrote:
The basis of this thread concerns me. I was a long-time Aperture user that has been investing a large amount of time this year learning to edit in C1P. I have yet to fully launch C1P's library management features and it is discussions like this that make me worry about doing so. I have heard time and time again that C1P's DAM features are lacking or are flawed.
My catalog, keywording, organization, etc are very important to me. I'm scratching my head trying to decide what to do...
I am also a long term Aperture user, in the same situation. I have implemented the following workarounds to make the transition to COP. I'm not very comfortable with it, but it's useable.
In Aperture before input:
1. COP doesn't recognize image version names -so change all file names to version_name (alternatively add a keyword as the Aperture version Name)
2. COP doesn't handle hierarchical key words well - so change all hierarchical keywords to flat ones level1-level2-level3 keyword becomes level1_level2_level3 keyword
3 COP doesn't recognise stacks - so each stack gets put in a separate folder, stack picks are color coded, copied to main folder
4 make all images "Referenced"
5 Optional: add all Aperture edits as a keyword eg select all images with color balance adjustment, add keyword "aptadj_colorbalance"
6) remove or replace all unsupported images
In COP
1) Import all images as referenced
2) Remove the "Filter" tool from the "Library" tab, put it on a custom tab. Only use it on small catalog folders, NOT "all images"
Import process: import your entire library into a catalog. Check for bugs, find unsupported images. Delete catalog & repeat.0 -
As another long-time Aperture user, I've done the same thing Eric did in order to create a usable C1 catalog. However, because Aperture's DAM still works well (El Capitan), I've continued using Aperture for DAM. It's awkward, but it works:
- Import into appropriate folders (referenced library), cull, and keyword in Aperture.
- Embed IPTC metadata into the Raw files (a definite no-no for C1 and probably not wise if you're publishing or doing other work where unmodified Raw must be submitted). By embedding the IPTC metadata in the images, I can point C1, LR or whatever at the appropriate images and import them with my metadata intact, as opposed to making the other program(s) work with Aperture's library.
I tend to need C1 for processing maybe 10% of my images, so after attending to the above, I simply have C1 import the desired images into its smaller catalog.
I'm hopeful that Phase One will seriously address C1's catalog shortcomings in v10, at which time I'll have C1 ingest all of my folders and then I'll continue only with C1. However, I have no indication whatsoever that my hopes for C1 v10 will be realized, in which case I'll continue doing what I've been doing and won't upgrade to v10.
BTW: if you haven't already, I'd encourage you to complete the survey referenced in another topic:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=246040
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