Bug: Losing 50% of my image area upon import
I think I discovered a huge bug in Capture One.
I imported a folder of DNG files created by my Pentax Q7. The image thumbnails in the import window look correct. However, in the browser the images are missing 50% of the area. It's a huge amount of data! I have never had this problem in Aperture or any other software package I was demo'ing. All lens correction settings are disabled. I clicked through all the tools in my tool tabs and I could not find anything to recover the image area.
I submitted a support case but it looks like Phase One is closed on the weekend. Can anyone on the forum help in the meantime? I wish there was a way for me to attach screen grabs so I can show this phenomena.
☹️
I imported a folder of DNG files created by my Pentax Q7. The image thumbnails in the import window look correct. However, in the browser the images are missing 50% of the area. It's a huge amount of data! I have never had this problem in Aperture or any other software package I was demo'ing. All lens correction settings are disabled. I clicked through all the tools in my tool tabs and I could not find anything to recover the image area.
I submitted a support case but it looks like Phase One is closed on the weekend. Can anyone on the forum help in the meantime? I wish there was a way for me to attach screen grabs so I can show this phenomena.
☹️
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is your global filters set to hide
raw
View-Global files0 -
Boris,
The release notes suggest that there may be some complications for the Q7. Support is listed but only for Firmware release 1.0.0.
Before going much further I guess it would be useful to know what firmware level you have in your Q7.
I downloaded a sample Q7 DNG file from Imaging Resource (Firmware 1.0.0. according to the EXIF information) and that seems to load in full using C1 8.1.1 on my Windows 7 based machine.
So I would conclude no bug and certainly not huge by any stretch of the imagination.
Grant0 -
Lorenzen,
I checked my View->Global files settings. None of the "Always Hide ..." options are selected.
Grant,
My Q7 is loaded with v1.00 firmware. I don't know if this is technically different than v1.0.0.
I used the 01, 02, and 06 lenses for this photoset.
I followed your path and tried loading a sample from Imaging Resources. Great idea! 😊 😎 It worked.
I got a DropBox account and uploaded three files. Here is a link to one of DNG files.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yf3wildlmtifl ... 8.DNG?dl=0
Here is what it looks like when opened in Aperture.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7gq0mo8tj2pk7 ... e.jpg?dl=0
Here is what it is like in C1.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vj5ednxcemjg9q0/C1.jpg?dl=0
I hope the links work. DropBox is kind of new to me. Can someone try loading this DNG into their catalog to see what happens? ❓0 -
Boris,
Your file appears in a session in my C1 as it does on your machine in the browser and in the viewer area seems to be displayed by default as a 50% zoom.
This is because the file is rather small according the dimensions in the EXIF screen. 1920 x 1280 so in portrait mode 1280 wide and therefore my display graphics are zooming in to fill the screen. At least that is what I think is happening.
Faststone also sees the file as 1920x1280 but seems to display all of it.
There would seem to be a good chance that there is a possibility that the lens information is being misapplied somewhere - Aperture is reporting a larger files size if I have interpreted the Aperture screen in your example screen shot correctly.
All of which is rather interesting and if we assume this has not been spotted, reported and fixed since the camera was launched I wonder if you are the only user of the system who is also using C1? Or if only some of the lenses create this situation.
I have no idea - just speculating. But it does seem odd.
Grant0 -
Grant,
Thank you for taking the time to look into my problem! 😊
I made a small mistake in my previous screen grab of Aperture. It shows how I wanted to crop the original image. Here is a link to what I meant to post. Oops! 🤭
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g60pduaxu09fd ... a.jpg?dl=0
Still, the problem is the same and the comparison is still valid. Aperture can read the whole image and correctly reports the dimensions. Capture One cannot do this. I have no idea where the 1920x1280 dimensions could be coming from. ❓ You mentioned that the lens could be causing this. That brings up a good point. I looked through my set and found the same issue on all three of the lenses I used: the 01 prime, the 02 standard zoom, and the 06 telephoto. ☹️
I read of a Pentax Q7 user on Pentax Forums that upgraded his firmware to v1.0.1 and he is experiencing the same problem. Since I have v1.00 I figured I may be OK but assumed there could be some trouble. In fact, I held off on upgrading my firmware in the hopes of maintaining compatibility with Capture one. ☹️ I posted that we Pentax users probably shouldn't hold our breath for a correction. Phase One is a small company and is probably chasing down other issues brought up by pros. (Remember my earlier post of support for pros vs. enthusiasts?) I'm going to try being proactive here and see if Phase One can be persuaded to fix this bug.
So, that makes two Q7 users who are trying to import images and are encountering difficulty. I believe in the iceberg philosophy that for every single vocal person behind an issue is another 10 who are silent. That brings the potential number of users facing to 20 - at least. ☹️ Well, in my mind that is .... 😉
So how is it that Aperture can correctly read the image data and Capture One cannot? What is Capture One doing or not doing? Did Apple figure something out? Or, is this really and truly a bug?0 -
In Aperture the image dimensions are 2664 x 4000 px (10.7 MP), in contrast to CO8 (1920 x 1280 px).
I suggest to contact Phase One support. Maybe they can explain what is going on here.0 -
Boris,
Strange problem.
Scrub the lens idea I think. I would not expect any problems with the 01 prime if you are seeing the same result.
Firmware 1.01, according to the Pentax release note, seems to be specifically associated with the 08 lens which suggests that is not an issue here either.
The Imaging Resource file I downloaded is firmware 1.00 like yours and reports a file dimension of 4000x3000 pixels as expected. Unfortunately Windows 7 does not seem to report DNG file dimensions in the browser but the file sizes are not too different given the very different subject matter.
What we see initially, before editing, is often the embedded jpg preview file in most applications but C1 will build its own.
So what happens if I look at the file using other applications.
Faststone viewer can read "RAW" files but actually only displays the embedded jpgs for editing activity as far as I can tell. Hence the Viewer description. The benefit is that it is fast and easy and uses comparatively little compute power!
In its browser window both your file and the IR sample file are reported as having dimension of 4000x3000 pixels (ignoring orientation). So the "full" DNG file size. However when opened for edit the IR sample still reports 4000x3000 but your file reports 1920x1280 for some reason. Also a much smaller file size in edit mode.
In both cases the the display, browser or edit window, seems to be using a fully lens corrected version of the image. (See below).
An Alternative RAW converter shows the embedded jpg in the browser and reports a size of 3000x4064 for the image "edit size" (I'm using its internal terminology here.) So slightly larger and I assume that this is due to it having no lens correction built in at any point. However the original file browser display will be taken from the embedded jpg in the DNG which WILL have been lens corrected.
When I open the file for edit I see additional detail on both sides (possibly top and bottom as well but that a bit more difficult to be sure about with your image). It's the same with the IR sample image - addition edge information is available.
In this particular application the edit files are saved as jpgs with the preview embedded with the edit instructions - sort of equivalent to the C1 variants but with a different way of grouping the edit instructions and previews together. The post edit preview with the absence of any changes related to lens correction show notable additional detail on the long sides. More than is visible in your Aperture screen grab for example.
I have my internal preview jpg dimensions set to 1024pixels for the long side in the edit files and see a reported 1024x768 for what is called the "Version Size".
So moving on to what I see in C1 ...
The IR sample image behaves as expected. It builds its own preview of course rather than relying on the embedded jpg for longer than it has to and as far as I can tell it offers no lens correction for the Q7 lenses so we see the same "fuller" image that I see using my Alternative editor. However it reports the file dimensions as the "official" 4000x3000 pixels.
Applying Auto adjustments on import seems to make no difference to what is displayed in the image in terms of dimensions.
Your sample image, however, displays heavily cropped in the preview browser reporting a size of 1920x1280 - which is my default preview size in this system. If I open for edit it appears to apply the same large crop again whilst reporting the same dimensions. Entirely different results to the IR image and a huge zoom in.
Do you get the same strange results with Landscape orientation images?
That and the lens used are the only obvious variables I can think of at the moment between your problem image and the IR sample, however since there is no lens correction going on so far as I can tell I would doubt that the lens differences are likely to be an issue. But who knows?
All rather odd I think.
Grant0 -
Grant,
That was a very thorough analysis - far more than I could have done! 😊 Thanks for putting in the time and effort! 😎
I downloaded a program called ExifTool (http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/) and used it to read the embedded data in the DNG. Here is the full data dump. The tab formatting may be off but the data should still be readable. I don't see 1920x1280 anywhere.
Boriss-iMac:uncrop poweredbypoptarts$ exiftool IMGP0378.DNG
ExifTool Version Number : 9.88
File Name : IMGP0378.DNG
Directory : .
File Size : 18 MB
File Modification Date/Time : 2015:02:27 05:49:28-08:00
File Access Date/Time : 2015:03:01 07:58:54-08:00
File Inode Change Date/Time : 2015:02:28 21:41:25-08:00
File Permissions : rwxrwxrwx
File Type : DNG
MIME Type : image/x-adobe-dng
Exif Byte Order : Little-endian (Intel, II)
Make : PENTAX
Camera Model Name : PENTAX Q7
Orientation : Rotate 90 CW
Software : PENTAX Q7 Ver 1.00
Modify Date : 2015:02:27 05:49:27
Artist :
Image Width : 4064
Image Height : 3000
Bits Per Sample : 12
Compression : Uncompressed
Photometric Interpretation : Color Filter Array
Strip Offsets : 182638
Samples Per Pixel : 1
Rows Per Strip : 3000
Strip Byte Counts : 18288000
X Resolution : 300
Y Resolution : 300
Planar Configuration : Chunky
Resolution Unit : inches
CFA Repeat Pattern Dim : 2 2
CFA Pattern 2 : 0 1 1 2
CFA Layout : Rectangular
Black Level Repeat Dim : 2 2
Black Level : 0 0 0 0
Default Scale : 1 1
Default Crop Origin : 0 168
Default Crop Size : 4000 2664
Bayer Green Split : 0
Anti Alias Strength : 1
Active Area : 0 0 3000 4000
Subfile Type : Reduced-resolution image
Primary Chromaticities : 0.64 0.33 0.3 0.6 0.15 0.006
Y Cb Cr Coefficients : 0.299 0.587 0.114
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling : YCbCr4:2:0 (2 2)
Y Cb Cr Positioning : Co-sited
Copyright :
Exposure Time : 1/800
F Number : 3.2
Exposure Program : Aperture-priority AE
Date/Time Original : 2015:02:27 05:49:27
Create Date : 2015:02:27 05:49:27
Flash : Off, Did not fire
Focal Length : 44.5 mm
Sensing Method : One-chip color area
Custom Rendered : Normal
Exposure Mode : Manual
Focal Length In 35mm Format : 205 mm
Scene Capture Type : Standard
Subject Distance Range : Distant
Lens Make : PENTAX
DNG Version : 1.1.0.0
DNG Backward Version : 1.1.0.0
Unique Camera Model : PENTAX Q7
Color Matrix 1 : 2.035919189 -1.353286743 -0.1195220947 0.1526031494 0.6324768066 0.2670898438 0.102722168 0.00798034668 0.5067596436
Color Matrix 2 : 1.299453735 -0.5593261719 -0.1107177734 -0.1878814697 1.013946533 0.2026824951 -0.006423950195 0.1232910156 0.4918823242
Analog Balance : 1 1 1
As Shot Neutral : 0.635235732 1 0.4663023679
Baseline Exposure : -0.5000076295
Baseline Noise : 1
Baseline Sharpness : 1
Linear Response Limit : 1
Pentax Version : 10.6.1.0
Pentax Model Type : 3
Preview Image Size : 640x480
Preview Image Length : 15639
Preview Image Start : 37022
Pentax Model ID : Q7
Date : 2015:02:27
Time : 05:49:26
Quality : RAW
Flash Mode : Off, Did not fire; Internal
Focus Mode : Contrast-detect (Focus-priority)
AF Point Selected : AF Select
ISO : 500
Exposure Compensation : +0.3
Metering Mode : Multi-segment
Auto Bracketing : 0 EV, No Extended Bracket
White Balance : Auto
Saturation : 0 (normal)
Contrast : 0 (normal)
Sharpness : 0 (normal)
DSP Firmware Version : 1.00.00.12
Effective LV : 11.1
Picture Mode : Aperture Priority; 1/3 EV steps
Drive Mode : Single-frame; No Timer; Shutter Button; Single Exposure
Sensor Size : 7.576 x 5.682 mm
Color Space : sRGB
Image Area Offset : 0 0
Raw Image Size : 4000x3000
Data Scaling : 8192
Preview Image Borders : 27 27 0 0
Lens Type : 06 Telephoto Zoom 15-45mm F2.8
Camera Temperature : 30 C
AE Lock : Off
Noise Reduction : Off
Flash Exposure Comp : +1.0
Image Tone : Natural
SR Result : Stabilized
Shake Reduction : On (7)
SR Half Press Time : 4.17 s
SR Focal Length : 0 mm
Shutter Count : 408
Faces Detected : 0
Face Position : 0 0
Raw Development Process : 12 (MX-1)
Hue : Normal
White Balance Auto Adjustment : On
Tungsten AWB : Subtle Correction
Dynamic Range Expansion : Off; Auto; 0; 0
World Time Location : Hometown
Hometown DST : Yes
Destination DST : Yes
Hometown City : San Francisco
Destination City : San Francisco
High/Low Key Adj : 0
Fine Sharpness : Off; Normal
High ISO Noise Reduction : Auto; Active (Medium)
Monochrome Filter Effect : None
Monochrome Toning : None
Face Detect : On (12 faces max); 0 faces detected
Face Detect Frame Size : 0 0
Shadow Correction : Auto
Cross Process : Off
Distortion Correction : On
Chromatic Aberration Correction : On
Vignetting Correction : Off
White Level : 3980
Bleach Bypass Toning : Off
Aspect Ratio : 3:2
Blur Control : Off; 0; 0; 0
HDR : Off; Auto-align Off; n/a; 0
Neutral Density Filter : Off
Black Point : 114 114 114 114
White Point : 12896 8192 8192 17568
Manufacture Date : 2014:03:18
Production Code : 2.1
Internal Serial Number : 63692
Power Source : Body Battery
Body Battery State : Almost Empty
AF Predictor : 640
AF Defocus : 2
AF Integration Time : 448 ms
AF Points In Focus : None
WB Shift AB : 0
WB Shift GM : 0
Serial Number : 6080416
Source Directory Index : 0
Source File Index : 0
Level Orientation : Rotate 90 CW
Composition Adjust : Off
Roll Angle : 1
Pitch Angle : -2
Composition Adjust X : 0
Composition Adjust Y : 0
Composition Adjust Rotation : 0
WB RGGB Levels Daylight : 14289 8192 8216 14963
WB RGGB Levels Shade : 17556 8192 8216 11683
WB RGGB Levels Cloudy : 16467 8192 8216 13323
WB RGGB Levels Tungsten : 8710 8192 8216 26237
WB RGGB Levels Fluorescent D : 19019 8192 8216 14758
WB RGGB Levels Fluorescent N : 16331 8192 8216 16705
WB RGGB Levels Fluorescent W : 15242 8192 8216 20702
WB RGGB Levels Flash : 17011 8192 8216 12503
WB RGGB Levels Fluorescent L : 12792 8192 8216 24084
WB RGGB Levels User Selected : 12896 8192 8192 17568
Contrast Detect AF Area : 264 264 64 48
Cross Process Params : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Lens Model : 06 TELEPHOTO ZOOM
Lens Info : 15-45mm F2.8
Calibration Illuminant 1 : Standard Light A
Calibration Illuminant 2 : D65
Aperture : 3.2
CFA Pattern : [Red,Green][Green,Blue]
Image Size : 4064x3000
Lens ID : 06 Telephoto Zoom 15-45mm F2.8
Megapixels : 12.2
Preview Image : (Binary data 15639 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Scale Factor To 35 mm Equivalent: 4.6
Shutter Speed : 1/800
Circle Of Confusion : 0.007 mm
Field Of View : 10.0 deg
Focal Length : 44.5 mm (35 mm equivalent: 205.0 mm)
Hyperfocal Distance : 94.88 m
Light Value : 10.7
Today is Sunday and Tech Support is still closed. I forwarded them a link to this thread. Hopefully it will help with their analysis. I will be eagerly awaiting their response on Monday.0 -
Hi Boris,
The file size thing is basically my default preview image size (1280 long edge) in C1. So it would be unlikely to see that in the Exif but the odd thing is that if showing that with your file but not the IR sample download.
In fact the Exif also shows the 4064 value but most software seems to present this as 4000. I suspect that as much as anything this is for some form of convenience convention OR that when lens adjusted the the applications engineer the file to 4000 with stretching and squeezing and manipulating pixels.
Has anything been done to this file anywhere? Moved between systems or something perhaps?
It seems like something is being misinterpreted somewhere but it's no an obvious generic error since the downloaded IR file seems to be responding just as expected.
If there is no information in the Pentax forums I would guess that Phase Support will be your best source of information. Being a small team (I believe) it seems reasonable to allow them their weekends to go out and make photographs - or whatever they do.
😉
Grant0 -
Phase One have responded to my tech support case and are looking into it. Hooray! 😄 😄
A user from the Pentax Forums found three recorded resolutions. The first is the full size resolution. Perhaps this is the raw, uncorked sensor data that ignores any in-camera aspect ratio setting. It is set for 4064x3000. Since I shoot in a 3:2 ratio the second recorded resolution is 4000x2664. Finally, there is the resolution of the embedded JPG preview and it is set to 1920x1280.
Now, as I type this, I am guessing that Capture One may be reading all three resolution in series and overwriting previous values. Since 1920x1280 is the last one then that's the one that sticks. Capture One creates its own preview and uses the last known resolution value to auto-crop.0
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