Lens correction tool crops more than other RAW converters
Hi there,
When performing lens correction for the Sony E PZ 16-50 lens, Capture 1 (version 10 on Windows) applies a lot more crop than in-camera JPEG conversion or Adobe Lightroom. The effect is almost as when going from a 24mm to a 28mm equiv FOV lens. The pixel count is however the same for all images, no matter if they are produced by in camera conversion, C1, or Lightroom.
As much as I like the results from C1, the extra crop is somewhat hard to accept for me especially because I lose borders of the image that are shown in the viewfinder.
A similar question has already been discussed here
and here
but apparently with no result.
Is there any way to change how C1 behaves in this respect, i.e. perform lens correction with less crop?
Thanks
When performing lens correction for the Sony E PZ 16-50 lens, Capture 1 (version 10 on Windows) applies a lot more crop than in-camera JPEG conversion or Adobe Lightroom. The effect is almost as when going from a 24mm to a 28mm equiv FOV lens. The pixel count is however the same for all images, no matter if they are produced by in camera conversion, C1, or Lightroom.
As much as I like the results from C1, the extra crop is somewhat hard to accept for me especially because I lose borders of the image that are shown in the viewfinder.
A similar question has already been discussed here
and here
but apparently with no result.
Is there any way to change how C1 behaves in this respect, i.e. perform lens correction with less crop?
Thanks
0
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You can reduce the percentage correction in the lens tab. You might want to do a test on an image where the correction effects would be clearly noticeable, such as a head-on shot of a brick wall - dull I know, but liable to be an image that would make barrel or pincushion distortions easy to spot.
Ian0 -
Is there a Capture One profile for that lens or are you just seeing the results of the data the camera/lens combination are providing?
You could set a default preset to ignore correction completely I would think. Then you can crop to your own requirements.
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
You could set a default preset to ignore correction completely I would think. Then you can crop to your own requirements.
You can also disable it by default by hitting the ellipse (…) to the top right of the Lens Correction tool and hitting Disable Default Lens Correction.0 -
Yes, I am using the C1 profile for that lens. The PZ 16-50 has a rather high amount of native distortion and vignetting (like many mirrorless lenses today). That's why I can absolutely not use it without any correction.
Correction in C1 needs to be at 100% to give me the same straight lines I get out of the other RAW converters, just that to achieve that, the crop is much tighter with C1. So could it be that this is inherent to the algorithm or profile used in C1 and cannot be changed?
Thanks0 -
You can also chose Manufacturer Profile as lens profile. Then you get exactly what the camera does. It bypasses Capture One's correction and uses Sony's instead. You have to decide who does a better job. 0 -
When I select Manufacturer Profile, the Distortion slider is disabled and no correction is performed. I guess this means my camera does not embed correction data into the RAW file. ☹️
Is there any source for C1 lens profiles on the web?0 -
[quote="NNN636425506944342685" wrote:
When I select Manufacturer Profile, the Distortion slider is disabled and no correction is performed. I guess this means my camera does not embed correction data into the RAW file. ☹️
Is there any source for C1 lens profiles on the web?
I would guess that C1 assumes that the file is fully corrected as per the manufacturer values (if any) and so there is no basis (or even data) to re-assess the correction already supplied.
Using the C1 profile you could always untick the "Hide distorted areas" tick box to see how the results would look with the distortion used for correction left visible. Then decide whether you can work with a different crop.
In the end you need to look carefully at the changes to the edges of the image to assess whether the extra cropping is taking off some good pixels or just trimming those with low quality. If you have applied a specific crop ratio that is not exactly the same as the sensor original (as processed by the camera) that may show up a difference as well.
All of the Capture One created lens profiles are, as far as I know, created in house and address more then just distortion from a lens (at different focal lengths if discussing zooms). I doubt there will be any third party options available but you could consider making a preset using your preferred values and saving that as a User Preset to give you a starting point. You might need a few presets for different focal lengths.
Alternatively it may be worth trying to avoid edge to edge composition, especially with lenses that require significant correction. Most cameras these days have so much resolution that trying to make use of every pixel on the sensor is rarely always necessary other than for some situations with relatively erratically moving subjects where framing could be a challenge.
HTH.
Grant0 -
[quote="NNN636425506944342685" wrote:
When I select Manufacturer Profile, the Distortion slider is disabled and no correction is performed. I guess this means my camera does not embed correction data into the RAW file. ☹️
Maybe. Did you turn on correction in the camera? And just to be sure, this is a Sony camera and the Sony SELP1650 lens? It will not work with non-Sony lenses.
I could post a screenshot but this forum doesn't seem to allow to attach images.0 -
[quote="NN635471078910395115UL" wrote:
I could post a screenshot but this forum doesn't seem to allow to attach images.
You have to put the image somewhere online (Dropbox, Flickr, etc) and put a link to it between the Img tags.
Ian0 -
[quote="NN635471078910395115UL" wrote:
Maybe. Did you turn on correction in the camera?
To the best of my knowledge (and I just checked again) there is no way to turn off the correction in-camera. Sony would never want you to see the horrible aberrations of the SELP1650. 😉 I also get nicely corrected in-camera JPEGs, as I wrote earlier.[quote="NN635471078910395115UL" wrote:
And just to be sure, this is a Sony camera and the Sony SELP1650 lens? It will not work with non-Sony lenses.
The camera is a Sony NEX-3N with SELP1650. Since that is considered a low-end camera, Sony may have crippled it by not storing correction data in RAWs. I tried with a6000 RAWs from the web and with those I can select the Manufacturer profile as you described.
But with the NEX-3n I still haven't found a way to get images that are fully corrected *and* show the same FOV as in-camera JPEG/LR. The difference in FOV is really more than just minor. See images at the links in my original post.0 -
Well, I can't comment on Sony but when I checked this out with my Canon S90 (using the S100 lens correction iirc), I thought it was quite obvious why the crop was as it is - very similar to what you are seeing with your Sony.
The distortion correction was only applied for the wider and of the zoom. By the time the focal length reaches the equivalent of about 50mm in SLR terms everything is relatively distortion free - certainly adequately so for a pocket camera with RAW capability.
The crop, which appears to emulate the ratio of the camera's internal settings, is slightly greater in C1 than the Canon jpg.
Most of the constraint comes from the top and bottom of the frame (in landscape orientation) where the crop is avoiding some rather severe quality challenges for the pixels left at the edges after the image has been manipulated. Sometimes that might not matter to an image and clearly Canon don't think it matters for the in-camera jpgs. However C1 may apply slightly different criteria and in general, for most images I looked at, the few extra pixel cropped were well worth cropping after correction.
The width (again talking Landscape orientation) may in some cases seem to be a rather too extreme crop. However, when I looked at that it was a gain pretty clear that the pixels avoided were no offering a spectacularly high quality result and unless some part of the composition was being severely compromised by the exclusion they were best left out.
How much is cropped comes back to the crop ratio being applied. If the "short edge" is the major influence on quality acceptability choice (as is likely) the long edge will be set to the respective ratio. As a percentage that will look like a much bigger crop amount of course.
The easiest way around any crops that you don't find suiting your need is probably to set the crop tool ratio to Unconstrained and then adjust until you get what you want. In some cases you might also reduce the correction applied. Just because it is there does no mean that it needs to be applied in all cases, though I think that probably applies more often to dslr type cameras than compacts.
HTH.
Grant0
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