Skip to main content

⚠️ Please note that this topic or post has been archived. The information contained here may no longer be accurate or up-to-date. ⚠️

Upgrade pricing

dredlew
Been trying out C1 for 15days so far and it's now displaying a popup to buy it, despite still having half the trial period left. The interesting part though is, that C1 can also be "rented" with a subscription plan. I guess mimicking Adobe. The issue that I see here is offering both buy and subscription at the same time and that somehow the math is not really working out. Both buy and subscription version of CO9 are apparently the same (from the FAQ):
Q / Are Capture One Pro 9 and Capture One Subscription the same software?
A / Yes! In regards to features, Capture One Subscription is identical to Capture One Pro 9. As something new, we will release new software features as they are developed instead of waiting for major release cycles (e.g. Capture One Pro 6 to 7). This is true for both Capture One Subscription and for Capture One Pro 9.

Aside from the fact that the licensing terms differ (you get 3 seats for buying, 2 for subscription), it seems like subscription would be way more expensive than buying (longterm). Let's assume one were to upgrade C1 every year to the newest version, which carries an upgrade cost of $99, versus a continuous subscription ($15/month) that does not seem to have a cheaper upgrade option:

________BUY____SUB__
1 year: [color=#FF0000:ldu75dhl]$299[/color:ldu75dhl] || [color=#00BF00:ldu75dhl]$180[/color:ldu75dhl]
2 year: [color=#FF0000:ldu75dhl]$398[/color:ldu75dhl] || [color=#00BF00:ldu75dhl]$360[/color:ldu75dhl]
3 year: [color=#00BF00:ldu75dhl]$497[/color:ldu75dhl] || [color=#FF0000:ldu75dhl]$540[/color:ldu75dhl]
4 year: [color=#00BF00:ldu75dhl]$596[/color:ldu75dhl] || [color=#FF0000:ldu75dhl]$720[/color:ldu75dhl]
5 year: [color=#00BF00:ldu75dhl]$695[/color:ldu75dhl] || [color=#FF0000:ldu75dhl]$900[/color:ldu75dhl]

As you can see, subscription would get progressively out of hand fairly quickly. And, that's assuming one upgrades every year, otherwise it looks like an even worse deal. My concern is, is C1 eventually going to be switched over to a subscription-only model? Right now, I just don't see why anyone would pick subscription over buying...

Thoughts?
0

Comments

27 comments

Date Votes
  • harald_walker
    Isn't it nice that you have free choice to pick what fits your needs best?

    Subscription gives you as a company flexibility to scale up/down and has low up-front costs. You can add and remove subscriptions if you have to. Maybe someone only needs a few licenses for a time-limited project.

    As a subscription user I'd like to see an upgrade option to a perpetual license. I chose subscription last year because I wasn't ready to pay the full price when Apple dropped Aperture. Now a year later I am fairly confident that I will continue using C1 in the near future and then indeed a regular license would be cheaper after a few years. I now have to wait until the subscription year is over and then would still have to pay the full price, even though I already paid two years of subscription feeds.

    Also I think the subscription is a bit too expensive for what it offers (and compared to Adobe where it gives me LR + PS).
    If they ever release a new version of Media Pro with a great C1 9 integration, then I would appreciate it, if the subscription would include it as well. It would add more value to the subscription.
    0
  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    As you can see, subscription would get progressively out of hand fairly quickly. And, that's assuming one upgrades every year, otherwise it looks like an even worse deal.

    Which is why I bought it rather than use the subscription plan. However you have not taken into account the fact that PhaseOne occasionally puts C1 on sale and the cost can then be half of what it normally is.

    [quote="dredlew" wrote:
    My concern is, is C1 eventually going to be switched over to a subscription-only model? Right now, I just don't see why anyone would pick subscription over buying...

    I don't think so. I think that the subscription plan is for businesses who have changing needs as workloads vary. As I remember that is the way my employer handled things like Microsoft Visual Studio - when new projects were staffing up they would get more licenses, when they were finished or on maintenance they would release those licenses. It gave them the flexibility to only spend what they needed at any time and the cost was tax deductible as an expense of business.

    I think the C1 will stay as a purchase option for as long as the individual sales market (as compared to the business market) makes selling it worthwhile. However nothing is permanent and there may come a time when C1 decides that the individual sales market is not worth the cost. Without some information about how big the consumer market is, and how profitable, it is impossible to know. But then there is always Lightroom and Dxo's Optics Pro.
    0
  • Permanently deleted user
    Thoughts ?

    Yes, if you like it just buy it. If you don't well get something else.
    0
  • dredlew
    It seems like all of you have forgotten how this played out with Adobe. At first it was buying-only, then buying and subscription and then subscription-only. And that's my concern, if this is turning into subscription-only, the price is too high.
    0
  • Permanently deleted user
    I subscribe on the whole Adobe suite, it's pocket change. If the price is to high, get something else then.

    Why do people expect to get access to professional software for the price less of a big mac is beyond me. 🙄
    0
  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:
    It seems like all of you have forgotten how this played out with Adobe. At first it was buying-only, then buying and subscription and then subscription-only. And that's my concern, if this is turning into subscription-only, the price is too high.

    And for me as well. If this turns into subscription only then I will return to Dxo Optics Pro or, if I have to, Lightroom. But I don't expect that to happen. Adobe has the market clout to make a change like that stick. PhaseOne, I think, does not.
    0
  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:

    Why do people expect to get access to professional software for the price less of a big mac is beyond me. 🙄

    Well, perhaps the price of two Big Macs where I live. Still, your point seems valid to me.
    0
  • SFA
    [quote="MikeFromMesa" wrote:
    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:

    Why do people expect to get access to professional software for the price less of a big mac is beyond me. 🙄

    Well, perhaps the price of two Big Macs where I live. Still, your point seems valid to me.


    Hmm.

    Big Macs must be getting cheaper in Stockholm these days ..... 😊


    Grant
    0
  • Permanently deleted user
    😂

    To clarify..

    To subscribe cost 12euro a month.. which is like a meal out. If one think that is to much over a couple a years one should probably pickup another hobby.

    But for those who think that is excessive, what do you think is a fair price for software like CO9 which is aimed at professionals ?

    A big mac is around 5euro here in Sweden, that's just the burger though.. 😂
    0
  • SFA
    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:
    :lol:

    To clarify..

    To subscribe cost 12euro a month.. which is like a meal out. If one think that is to much over a couple a years one should probably pickup another hobby.

    But for those who think that is excessive, what do you think is a fair price for software like CO9 which is aimed at professionals ?

    A big mac is around 5euro here in Sweden, that's just the burger though.. 😂


    20euro for the bun?

    One of my daughters spent a weekend in Stockholm last month with some friends. Loved the place but they just had to accept that price expectations were very different to even London (where nearly all of them lived until just about a year ago.)

    I have not had an opportunity to visit since the early 90s. Back then I was on business expenses using a company credit card. Even so things seemed expensive .... but not so bad compared to Oslo and Helsinki!

    At the risk of going a very long way off topic .... I wonder if it would be possible to compare the costs and desirability trade-off for capital cities to a similar comparison for photo manipulation software?

    If possible, which Cities could be categorised as "Open Source"?


    👿



    Grant
    0
  • Permanently deleted user
    😂

    Hahaha Well just the burger with buns, no fries or soft drink. 😉
    0
  • Grant Kernan
    I think it is best to buy, but then I started with CO version 4. I will not subscribe to PS either so I am stuck with the latest one that I could buy.
    DXO is not an option for me. I find it to be to clunky and limited. Both in handling and in quality. CO9 and PS6 will do me for quite a while and the quality and finesse is what I have come to expect and enjoy.
    0
  • dredlew
    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:
    I subscribe on the whole Adobe suite, it's pocket change. If the price is to high, get something else then.

    Why do people expect to get access to professional software for the price less of a big mac is beyond me. 🙄


    Look at the table again I posted up top and tell me why switching to a subscription-only model is fine with you. Apparently, you like paying more for less.

    And for the record, professional software of that caliber (that C1 has yet to catch up to in terms of functionality) was $99 (Aperture) or is $120/yr (Photoshop AND Lightroom) which is essentially $60/yr for LR, a third of the $180/yr cost of C1. The math really isn't that hard to figure out.

    Also, as for "get something else then"; well, that's really funny because you do realize that C1 and Lightroom are currently the only game in town. Trust me, I wouldn't be here if Aperture was still alive.

    You may not be aware of it but investing in a comprehensive RAW workflow tool is a longterm investment as it's a huge pain in the butt to switch. Therefore, it concerns me that if the pricing model gets changed in the near future, getting potentially either forced to pay more or to switch again is not a good outlook. - But given how much Big Macs cost in your area and you're actually willing to pay that much for junk, money is probably no object to you.
    0
  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    Also, as for "get something else then"; well, that's really funny because you do realize that C1 and Lightroom are currently the only game in town. Trust me, I wouldn't be here if Aperture was still alive.

    I would probably also not be here if Aperture was still alive, however I think that C1 and LR are not "the only game in town" on the Mac. I used Dxo Optics Pro for many years until I found C1 and realized that it is better for my needs. I use C1 but, if it were to go away or become too expensive for me, I would start using Optics Pro again before going to LR.

    I realize that this is a personal choice but Optics Pro does offer a fair number of things not available in C1 - distortion correction for a very wide range of cameras and lenses, lens specific softness corrections, a very nice haze removal tool and what I think may be the best noise removal software out of the three (C1, OP, LR).

    C1 also offers functionality not in OP (local adjustments, what I consider to be a better raw converter and a much better external editor interface) but I think that OP is a very good workflow tool, at least for my needs, and an acceptable C1 replacement.

    My personal opinion, of course.
    0
  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:
    It seems like all of you have forgotten how this played out with Adobe. At first it was buying-only, then buying and subscription and then subscription-only.

    Yeah - except that never happened, of course: Lightroom is still available standalone.
    0
  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:
    To subscribe cost 12euro a month.:

    Which gets you PhotoShop too, of course - an amazing deal, IMHO.
    0
  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:
    Apparently, you like paying more for less.

    And apparently you're so biased against Adobe that you refuse to acknowledge that the Adobe Photography package gets you Lightroom and PhotoShop - which for less than £9 UK a month is an extraordinary deal.

    I'd be happy to pay that for just PS.
    0
  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="Grant Kernan" wrote:
    I think it is best to buy, but then I started with CO version 4.

    From the Capture One License:

    The software and any parts accompanying this License whether on disk, in read only memory or any other media (the “Softwareâ€) are licensed, not sold, to you for use only under the terms of this Software License Agreement (“Licenseâ€).

    So you haven't - and never have - bought Capture One, either...
    0
  • Michael Sonshine
    [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:

    So you haven't - and never have - bought Capture One, either...

    But that is semantics.

    You have a license to use the product for as long as you wish. You can move it from computer to computer and there is no limit on the number of times you can use it, or on what you do with the product.

    It is essentially owning the product, regardless of the terminology in the license agreement.
    0
  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:


    Look at the table again I posted up top and tell me why switching to a subscription-only model is fine with you. Apparently, you like paying more for less.


    Yes it's perfectly fine with me, 144 euro/per year is nothing. Not in terms of cost and certainly not for what i get.



    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    And for the record, professional software of that caliber (that C1 has yet to catch up to in terms of functionality) was $99 (Aperture) or is $120/yr (Photoshop AND Lightroom) which is essentially $60/yr for LR, a third of the $180/yr cost of C1. The math really isn't that hard to figure out.


    For the record.. 😂 In terms of what functionality ? DAM ? CO9 offers unique functionality/features for professionals and is used daily by them.

    The debate wether is worth it's price is moot, for me it's well worth it, considering what it does for me. Im a full-time professional who use it daily.

    YMMV
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:


    Also, as for "get something else then"; well, that's really funny because you do realize that C1 and Lightroom are currently the only game in town. Trust me, I wouldn't be here if Aperture was still alive.


    I couldn't care less, unless you enjoy whining you simply adapt and get a solution that works for you.

    Aperture... oh for crying out loud, that shipped has sailed and burned. Get over it.


    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    You may not be aware of it but investing in a comprehensive RAW workflow tool is a longterm investment as it's a huge pain in the butt to switch. Therefore, it concerns me that if the pricing model gets changed in the near future, getting potentially either forced to pay more or to switch again is not a good outlook.


    Are you serious ? It's not rocket science, you have a trial to see if it fit's your needs. Contemplating wether or not 180usd (in your case) will be to "expensive" which it shouldn't be for anyone who have picked up photography as a serious hobby.

    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    - But given how much Big Macs cost in your area and you're actually willing to pay that much for junk, money is probably no object to you.


    Yea i live on Big Mac's... No money is no object when it's 180usd, it's a tiny business expense.
    0
  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:
    To subscribe cost 12euro a month.:

    Which gets you PhotoShop too, of course - an amazing deal, IMHO.


    I was referring to CO9 subscription.
    0
  • dredlew
    [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:
    It seems like all of you have forgotten how this played out with Adobe. At first it was buying-only, then buying and subscription and then subscription-only.

    Yeah - except that never happened, of course: Lightroom is still available standalone.


    Um, LR is the exception (at the moment). It happened with everything else.
    0
  • dredlew
    [quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:
    Apparently, you like paying more for less.

    And apparently you're so biased against Adobe that you refuse to acknowledge that the Adobe Photography package gets you Lightroom and PhotoShop - which for less than £9 UK a month is an extraordinary deal.

    I'd be happy to pay that for just PS.


    Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it now?
    0
  • dredlew
    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:
    Yes it's perfectly fine with me, 144 euro/per year is nothing. Not in terms of cost and certainly not for what i get.

    I was able to figure out that much that money to you is no object.

    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:
    For the record.. 😂 In terms of what functionality ? DAM ? CO9 offers unique functionality/features for professionals and is used daily by them.

    The debate wether is worth it's price is moot, for me it's well worth it, considering what it does for me. Im a full-time professional who use it daily.

    YMMV

    Yup, DAM. And exactly YMMV, so no, it's not moot. For you apparently, not for me.

    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:

    I couldn't care less, unless you enjoy whining you simply adapt and get a solution that works for you.

    Aperture... oh for crying out loud, that shipped has sailed and burned. Get over it.

    Yup, Aperture that burned ship that still beats the hell out of both LR and C1 when it comes to DAM and a bunch of other things. Makes it kinda challenging to adapt to a "solution" that is lacking in that department and is riddled with bugs. Mind you, they had 5 years to catch up but it looks like it's going to take another 5.

    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:

    Are you serious ? It's not rocket science, you have a trial to see if it fit's your needs. Contemplating wether or not 180usd (in your case) will be to "expensive" which it shouldn't be for anyone who have picked up photography as a serious hobby.

    Did I mention rocket science? I did not. I said it's a pain in the butt. And yes, I'm using a trial, exactly for that reason and I'm reporting things that I see as off as I'm going along.

    It's less about whether $180 is too expensive, what I pointed out was that IF subscription-only were to be instated, you would be paying more for the SAME product minus one less seat. But you don't seem to find that questionable. Well, good for you.

    [quote="Paul Lindqvist" wrote:

    Yea i live on Big Mac's... No money is no object when it's 180usd, it's a tiny business expense.

    Again, your personal situation. I'm sure a lot of photographers are not in that boat.
    0
  • SFA
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    Again, your personal situation. I'm sure a lot of photographers are not in that boat.


    To a working photographer, whose expenses per annum on average for new equipment of one sort or another would likely dwarf the software costs as they are today, the licence or subscription charges really should not be seen as a major cost.

    To a hobby photographer .... well, for many it may appear to be a higher than necessary or justifiable cost - even if they too might spend heavily on bodies and lenses and other kit from time to time.

    So be it. There are free (open source) applications around and quite a few are really rather good. No guarantee of continuity of course - but then where do you get really long term guarantees these days?

    Personally I am not a fan of subscription business models. The costs are what they are and put the vendor in control - but then the biggest player - Apple and Microsoft as examples - are a far bigger concern since they are setting up a future business model for which there are no obvious alternatives. More importantly - without them supporting older products after end of life you wouldn't even be able to choose to stand still and stick with what you have.

    Once they have you in their net the rest is going to look like top value freedom by comparison.


    Maybe.


    Grant
    0
  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    Yup, DAM. And exactly YMMV, so no, it's not moot. For you apparently, not for me.


    So if it doesn't live up to you'r requirements, why are you still whining about it ? It's obviously not worth you'r hard earned money.

    I use sessions as majority of professional who use this software does, which is a unique feature that works very well.

    If i want DAM i simply use LR.

    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    Yup, Aperture that burned ship that still beats the hell out of both LR and C1 when it comes to DAM and a bunch of other things. Makes it kinda challenging to adapt to a "solution" that is lacking in that department and is riddled with bugs. Mind you, they had 5 years to catch up but it looks like it's going to take another 5.


    In your opinion yes, but it was not used by professionals like Adobe or Capture one. I think Apple's photo's might be a better suite for you since you think aperture was the hottest thing since sliced bread.


    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    Did I mention rocket science? I did not. I said it's a pain in the butt. And yes, I'm using a trial, exactly for that reason and I'm reporting things that I see as off as I'm going along.


    You complain about the price of a software you find inadequate for your "needs". That's not reporting things you see as off.
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    It's less about whether $180 is too expensive, what I pointed out was that IF subscription-only were to be instated, you would be paying more for the SAME product minus one less seat. But you don't seem to find that questionable. Well, good for you.


    😂 So you speculate about the future, i assume you don't drive a car since you don't know what the gas price will be tomorrow ?

    No i have no issues with subscriptions only, it's a calculated cost in my business and if that happens i simply evaluate the price and see if it's profitable to subscribe.

    [quote="dredlew" wrote:

    Again, your personal situation. I'm sure a lot of photographers are not in that boat.


    You do realise this software is aimed at professionals ? So i would say it's not only my personal situation but situation of the majority of CO9 customer base.


    What it boils down to is you simply don't like CO9 and it's DAM (or lack there of) so you whine about speculative future costs etc.

    Time better spent would be adapting and finding a solution that works for you.

    I wish you luck and hope 2016 will be the year you find what you are looking for.
    0
  • Michael Sonshine
    I thought that passions about the subscription model had died down after all of this time (it has been 2 years for Adobe), but I guess not. ☹️

    It works very well for some, but not for others, but that is why we have multiple products and choices. Personally I do not use the subscription model, but I am not convinced that it really is so bad, especially for those who are initially starting with the product and don't wish to sink a lot of money into it as startup costs. In my view the Adobe subscription model is about the same cost as buying and upgrading over the long term and the only real drawback is not having the software after the subscription ends if you do not renew. But, even having it with the purchase model means that you will not be able to use it after a couple of OS upgrades, so it seems "Six of one, half a dozen of the other".

    My NAS is full of software that I "bought" but that no longer really works because it is not functional on El Capitan. For those items I might as well have used the subscription model.
    0

Post is closed for comments.