4.7.0 - still nothing happend - phase one, good bye!
We all whaited and thought Phase One developers would be clever enough to implement all the things we where asking over and over and over and over and over and over.
Nothing happend. Danish Vodka must be cheap as it seems.
Still no shortcuts for contrast/exposure editing.
Still no correction possibility for individual chanels.
Still the same session management.
Still no this and that we all had in 3.x and are asking for since the first 4.x pro release.
But - hey - you can now adjust JPGS - i am asking myself again how much vodka costs in danmark.
There is lightroom, photoshop on the market - they do a great job in that range.. focus on your basics maybe first.
You where the supreme software for capturing and raw file converting - but the sotware managed to become really really annoying and hardly impossible to work effective.
It seems you are more after catching customers from Lightroom than keeping your own customers.
I am starting now to refuse working with P65 and P65+ backs and move for those needs over to other back suppliers and will use Lightroom for the new canon cameras.
Thank god we havent invested in a P65 yet.
You demonstrated that you dont care what customers think, as the forums here are full of complaints what we, the people that need to earn money over a good software workflow do not like.
Here an advice:
Hire some software developers - charge for upgrades to get money for the development.
Read what your customers argue about - dont copy other software and change your own software when it is brilliant.
Nothing happend. Danish Vodka must be cheap as it seems.
Still no shortcuts for contrast/exposure editing.
Still no correction possibility for individual chanels.
Still the same session management.
Still no this and that we all had in 3.x and are asking for since the first 4.x pro release.
But - hey - you can now adjust JPGS - i am asking myself again how much vodka costs in danmark.
There is lightroom, photoshop on the market - they do a great job in that range.. focus on your basics maybe first.
You where the supreme software for capturing and raw file converting - but the sotware managed to become really really annoying and hardly impossible to work effective.
It seems you are more after catching customers from Lightroom than keeping your own customers.
I am starting now to refuse working with P65 and P65+ backs and move for those needs over to other back suppliers and will use Lightroom for the new canon cameras.
Thank god we havent invested in a P65 yet.
You demonstrated that you dont care what customers think, as the forums here are full of complaints what we, the people that need to earn money over a good software workflow do not like.
Here an advice:
Hire some software developers - charge for upgrades to get money for the development.
Read what your customers argue about - dont copy other software and change your own software when it is brilliant.
0
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Calm down, I love the software and yes its different to version 3 but change is good you have to move on and not be scared of change. Its still the best for raw processing and also tethered shooting. For final adjusting surely every one uses Photoshop anyway.
Derek0 -
[quote="derek" wrote:
Calm down, I love the software and yes its different to version 3 but change is good you have to move on and not be scared of change. Its still the best for raw processing and also tethered shooting. For final adjusting surely every one uses Photoshop anyway.
Derek
So - is it good that they took all the features from the software. Is it good that all the people do ask for the features to come back and they just ignore it?
Well - of course my reaction is a bit over the top - but i am again having an extra hour becouse of it..
Is it wrong to tell them to focus on their software base instead of implementing features from other software?
It is by far not the best software anymore.. but the only one you can shoot tethered with different cameras.
If you dont tell it straight like it is, they ignore it like in a fairy world again like they did so far.
It is not beeing scared becouse they changed a lot - they took a lot away..0 -
And we are still missing the infamous Focus Tool!
And, no, the quality is not so high now! 3.7.9 have a better conversion quality in my personal experience, at least with P45+.
Ciao
Alan0 -
[quote="Alan Rei" wrote:
And we are still missing the infamous Focus Tool!
And, no, the quality is not so high now! 3.7.9 have a better conversion quality in my personal experience, at least with P45+.
Ciao
Alan
I agree with the P45+
But the image quality of canon cameras is far better. Shame the did all the other things with my good old friend 3.7.90 -
[quote="derek" wrote:
....... its different to version 3 but change is good you have to move on and not be scared of change.
I'm not sure where this idea that 'change is good' came from. Change, in and of itself, has little value at all. Now, when someone takes an existing situation and IMPROVES on it....that is good.
As far as 'not being scared'......the only thing I'm scared of is not being able to do my job efficiently.
R0 -
Latest report on 4.7.0 so far
3 Crashes - just while doing a prechoice. Tagging and so.
1 times pictures could not be edited after i did rename them.
2 times a folder did disapear to the system trash.
Guess i am just scared of changes.. 😉0 -
I guess your just angry...... 0 -
[quote="NN" wrote:
Latest report on 4.7.0 so far
3 Crashes - just while doing a prechoice. Tagging and so.
1 times pictures could not be edited after i did rename them.
2 times a folder did disapear to the system trash.
Guess i am just scared of changes.. 😉
I understand your trouble... all of it stated in your last posts.
I changed from Windows to Mac today (actually tonight). I had a lot of crashes.
But I think they all had to do with prior settings. Especially of already processed files (so C1 ist looking for the destination).
Started again some sessions from scratch... and everything is going well so far. No crashes, no trouble.
Either way tethered or from existing folders.
Well... problems with older settings... you can sum it up as bugs, too, certainly (but to be fair in this case the older settings came from the Windows version... and obvioulsy the data exchange from Windows to Mac or the other way around is not really that hassle-free as promised).
Maybe you try with new sessions first... and then figure out what is going on with older sessions?
But, yes, there are probably much better ways to spend time than sorting out this stuff. That's definitely not your or our job.
As to the changes... changes are great if they make things easier and/or faster based on the existing workflow.
But this is actually a completely rewritten software and asks for a completely new workflow including backups and so on.
Actually too much changes and that slows down. Especially if you have to sort out bugs and have to fight with crashes on the fly.
Not really a problem for me personally (just annoying) but for those who depend on their experienced workflow this must be terrible.0 -
If you have a better or a good workflow afterwards changes are good.
But here - with capture one you have a software that is only half the cow and you had a price winning cow before.
It seems like they try to make an animal that can lay eggs, give milk and wool at the same time instead on focusing of the prime milke it gave before.
I rather have a good cappucino at a nice italian bar than a pub breakfast as software that i have to earn money with.
As summary - phase one did set restriction to professionals over cutting out so many features we had before to use the software in a much wider range than maybee the majority that uses this software are in need for.
But actually this software was once created for those professional who did use and did buy their backs in the end becouse of their software.
In the end there is a dalsa and a kodak sensor and some software. 3.x was the reason why we did choose the P backs before. It is really hard to stick now to it - and the next upgrade is right in front of the door.
What i in total do not understand is:
Many people did ask for those features they took away and they are countless. From easy ones you can live with to really essential ones. It would have been easy to reimplenment them.
If you copy from other software to be competitive just copy their way maybe alike. Ask for cash for upgrades. I use some of our licenses of c1pro now since 2006 or 2005 with the same key. I wouldnt have had any problems paying 50-100 dollar for each MAJOR update. But those money would have helped employing more developers that would make things work and run.
The current pro version is for me now just the amateur version - and i hoped the promised things in the pipeline would have been released in 4.7.0 to make it a pro version again. I mean 7 release steps in just a year.. seems like the software is really really not finished if it is running that fast in Step by step a bug less and a useless gadget more instead of major things that are not really difficult to code compared to editing jpgs and such things.. Nobody should discontinue a working software when the follower is not finished like they did with 3.7.9.
It seems like Phase One has made up their mind in which way their Software is going - it would have been fair to tell their customers who did pay their rent, lifetimeplans and their childrens braces and diapers what they have in mind instead of leaving them in the dark.
I would ask for a statement from phase one what is comming up any soon. And what of those features they took away will be implemented and when (sorry to repeat again) and when. But that will not happen. Since this updates i was really thinking they do will get all those stuff back in my beloved c1pro. Now the time has come where is am looking for a new girlfriend - and i know that there is none like me old girl 3.x and even her ugly sister 4.x is compared to the others still a ok girl - for capturing at least. Developing you did already loose the lead - it became faster - but that never was important at all. My customers always did get a preview CD by the end of the shooting day, contacts etc etc.0 -
>almost digital
> digital techs
> munich
too much beer I guess...
was munich a scene of so called "beer hall putsch" ? no wonder0 -
[quote="Dee" wrote:
>almost digital
> digital techs
> munich
too much beer I guess...
was munich a scene of so called "beer hall putsch" ? no wonder
I guess i would need maybe a few beers more. But bringing a ww2 bombing attemp to kill adolf hitler into this issue is really a bit weird. I would have other words for you but sorry - that seem to be a bit over the top.
Please be constructive - maybe even direct and angry - but matters of mass genozide and such things are here definitly the wrong place.
To me - an all professionals that i know this software did became really not what we used to have. If you think different or have different needs - be happy.
'But bloody hell - leave such stupidness like those things behind your fence.
I know you where reffering to my comment about danmark and vodka, but that was irony .. and not with comparing somebody with nazis.0 -
Derek and Dee,
C1Pro v3.7.9 was AND REMAINS the premiere software for professional on-set and post-production workflows.
All releases of v4 so far have been less stable and less efficient to work with than v3, and also removed features and tools used literally hundreds of times daily in professional workflows.
Trying to work with v4 feels like swimming with one arm tied behind your back. This is a daily reality for thousands of photographers, digital techs, and retouching studios. Many have simply chosen to stick with v3.
That can't continue, however, because the professional industry is now adopting some of the newer cameras -- such as the D3X and 5DMkII -- the files from which cannot be opened in v3 (now or ever), and v4 is still not looking like improving any time soon.
As to v4.7, the .eip idea is nice (though it requires support for all cameras, not just Phase backs, if it's going to be acceptable in a pro workflow) but Jpeg and Tiff support should have been significantly lower priority than the serious handicaps facing professionals daily.
In my opinion, Phase One should offer an open call to working photographers, assistants, digital techs and retouchers for a prioritised list of required fixes, and act on those before adding any new features. One can hope.0 -
I suppose I should clear up a few things....
1. Jpeg and Tiff support: This is a feature that has actually always been a part of Capture One's abilities, however up to this release it has simply been disabled. I suspected there would likely be a bit of backlash since it looks like we spent alot of time implementing it. In reality this feature required almost no work at all.
2. EIP format, this will significantly enhance workflow in Capture One going forward, but of course for most peoples workflow it will require a transition period. For now I recommend spending time testing it out seeing how it can help. With EIP you can easily send a raw file to a client, retoucher, friend, whomever, and not worry about your settings getting lost along the way. And yes, in the future it will likely expand to DSLR as well.
We have stated all along that individual channel adjustment is in the pipeline, however it requires significant development and that will take time.
Believe me we do listen to what people want and VASTLY improved naming and renaming tools in 4.7 are a testament to this. More improvements are on the way, but of course we only have so many resources and some features take longer to implement than others.0 -
Dear Gilbert - simply ask for update cash to hire some more developers. As Ben said before, it is not that we - the people on the front have time to whait till things get MAYBE fixed. Just inform us.
I just read one of the many many many many features taken away from the software will be reimplemented.
For example Shortcuts for exposure editing what really is no effort to code. I guess that is what a junior informatics student could do in half a day.
Can you please post a list of to be implemented things in the pipeline. Just tell us a raw timeplan that we can try to deal or work arround with it. I guess you dont know or got no clue how much we depend on a software like we had in 3.7.
To be honest - only a small group of people we transfer raw files develop them in C1pro. If i dont want my settings lost - they dont get a raw file. Those time of a newly not really needed feature again could have been spended to get C1pro 4 an other step to the base stand of the quality of 3.7x. You started by minus 100 and still are on minus 20. Once you reached Zero you should start implementing new features.0 -
[quote="NN"] wrote:
Nothing happend. Danish Vodka must be cheap as it seems.
I think the drink you're looking for is absinthe. Van Gogh only chopped off part of one ear. I fear Phase One have taken off both, as they don't appear to be listening:-)0 -
I have to agree with my German counter part. Here in LA, I have photographers that refuse to work with 4.x.x, because of the speed in which we must work. Celebrities, etc... I find it a Lightroom want to be and am curious why we should put up with being the test market for obviously not completed software. My clients just won't put up with it. They expect a seamless workflow. If i were to start talking about work arounds or it is coming, I would be without clients.
Ronn Brown Tech Services
Los Angeles, CA0 -
Stability needs to be improved before v4 can be used with any confidence. I shot stills on a RED tv shoot recently, the contrast was striking, they were shooting countless Gbytes direct to hard drive without issues on a new camera platform while the old pro yours truly had to deal with a crash right off the bat. This doesn't happen a lot, in fact I thought the bugs had been worked out this was a real surprise but it's not one I care to repeat. It's back to v3 for me for capture.
Dave0 -
I just want to add my personal no.1 wish for v.4: stable network working over AFP.
I work in a small Mac-only workgroup, and all our RAW files reside on network shares. If we need to get an extra shot (an extra piece for a comp, for example), in v.3.7 any one of my staff can access the "RAWs" folder on the network share (over AFP), copy and paste the adjustments from a previous image, and process the file (usually to another "Processed" AFP share.
In v4, accessing an AFP share causes C1 to hang, requiring a force quit. What's worse, is it defaults back to that folder on the net startup, and hangs! I have to trash all my prefs and Application Support to get back to launching. I've been advised that SMB still works (and it does work better), but SMB has permissions issues which AFP doesn't, so only the original file creator is able to make edits.
Working over AFP is flawless, and a daily part of my workflow in v3. The workarounds for v4 (creating local copies of files, etc.) are now a serious day to day problem for my business, not to mention the risk of error in having multiple copies of files in different places.
I've posted a support request, and been told that it's "in the queue", but I hold my breath with every point release, and so far nothing.0 -
On a side note have any of you tried Hasselblads flagship new software 'Phocus'
Its a clunky piece of crap, makes CaptureOne look very cool.
Derek0 -
Same thing with Lightroom.
Maybe it is pretty fast at ingesting images from card.
But hei, did you see how slow it is at rendering previews. Come on ?!
I don't even mention, despite the multitude of buttons, to find a proper look for an image, right out of the box.
I agree, for asset management it is a lot better than CO, otherwise...
I know this is not the apropiate forum for discuss LR, but spare me with all this comments against CO4.0 -
I quite agree, discussion of other manufacturers products is pointless and distracting. Phocus is Hasselblad only, and the RAW conversion quality of Lightroom rules it out for most.
I'm only interested in the differences between Capture One Pro v4 and v3.
At this point, I truly don't understand whether Phase One realise the multitude of tiny details professional digi-techs and assistants were relying on (are still relying on in v3) to keep a fast shoot moving.
I'm happy with everything they added, I just need to see some of the key problems fixed.0 -
Just for the record, v4.7 has just got into a quit-on-launch loop, and somehow taken v3.7.9 with it. I cannot currently launch either version without an unexpected quit.
This on a well maintained Mac Pro, and all my other applications are working fine.0 -
[quote="Ben" wrote:
Just for the record, v4.7 has just got into a quit-on-launch loop, and somehow taken v3.7.9 with it. I cannot currently launch either version without an unexpected quit.
This on a well maintained Mac Pro, and all my other applications are working fine.
If neither program will launch this may have be caused by a bad raw file... otherwise any connection between the two is likely coincidental as both programs share no files. First thing I would do is trash the batch queue. If it is still crashing Trash the prefs so it will not launch to the same folder of Raws which may contain a bad file.0 -
[quote="Jon" wrote:
[quote="Ben" wrote:
Just for the record, v4.7 has just got into a quit-on-launch loop, and somehow taken v3.7.9 with it. I cannot currently launch either version without an unexpected quit.
This on a well maintained Mac Pro, and all my other applications are working fine.
If neither program will launch this may have be caused by a bad raw file... otherwise any connection between the two is likely coincidental as both programs share no files. First thing I would do is trash the batch queue. If it is still crashing Trash the prefs so it will not launch to the same folder of Raws which may contain a bad file.
Dear Jon - can you maybe not only reply on those messages but all those that have serious questions about the future and phase ones C1 ???
I mean - do you really want to go on and act like the three chimps playing deaf, dumb and blind?
It is also funny how you always ask to let the consumer fix things like preferences etc instead of creating a softwear that works. We all know how to keep our computers up to date - so bloody do something with your software that we dont have to "fix" our computers daily. C1 did become really unworkable.0 -
If neither program will launch this may have be caused by a bad raw file... otherwise any connection between the two is likely coincidental as both programs share no files.
Not quite true v4 hung in the midst of a time-sensitive shoot and I forced a quit and launched 3.7.9 to resume and it hung too and we determined it was creating files/prefs in the v4 session folder. So maybe they're not supposed to share files but they were definitely trying to.
Dave0 -
I've just got a reply from Phase One pertaining to the dozens of crash reports I've submitted from v4. most likely the problem is that a secondary program used by Capture One is still running when it should not or that there is a memory issue.
The easiest solution should be to reboot your computer.
I have spent more time deleting preferences and caches -- and rebooting in the worst cases -- since installing v4 than with any software ever before.
I just don't know what to do about this.0 -
[quote="Dave" wrote:
Not quite true v4 hung in the midst of a time-sensitive shoot and I forced a quit and launched 3.7.9 to resume and it hung too and we determined it was creating files/prefs in the v4 session folder. So maybe they're not supposed to share files but they were definitely trying to.
Dave
No, This is absolutely true. Capture One 3.7 and Capture cannot and do not read the same settings files, preference files, or application settings files. the only things that are shared are that they can both read raw files, and can access ICC profiles. If you were accessing files from the same folder then each program will create its now settings folders there. 3.7 will create Capture One Settings and 4 will create a folder called Capture One.
Bear in mind that my troubleshooting here is based no very little info about your specific case, for a better answer create a support case and we will work with you get things running niceley[quote="NN" wrote:
Dear Jon - can you maybe not only reply on those messages but all those that have serious questions about the future and phase ones C1 ???
I mean - do you really want to go on and act like the three chimps playing deaf, dumb and blind?
Ulf and I have spent much time indicating what features are in the pipeline. I will not comment any further except to say that Capture One will only continue to improve. We are a very small company and things take time, but we are always committed to producing the best product we can.[quote="NN" wrote:
It is also funny how you always ask to let the consumer fix things like preferences etc instead of creating a softwear that works. We all know how to keep our computers up to date - so bloody do something with your software that we dont have to "fix" our computers daily. C1 did become really unworkable.
So you think it is funny that we do a little thing called troubleshooting? Fair enough, next case you create I will simply report your problems to R&D and they will produce version of Capture One specifically for your computers current set-up state. 😜 It may take a while but I'm sure we'll be able to solve your problem in 4-6 months.
Joking aside, there are many causes to crashes and hangs, some we can (and do) fix, others are caused by interaction with OSX files that only Apple can fix, and others stem from permission and formatting problems on local computers. If I had dollar for every computer that was "properly maintained" but suffered from a user account that was just a mess, I'd be a rich man. While Mac's are generally really good in this regard, they not perfect. PC on the otherhand....0 -
There's a certain quality called "robustness" that used to be a priority among software developers and with some it still is, so the software would perform regardless of flighty variables (i.e.what other nonsense may reside in the user account, which way the wind blows and how hard etc.) I just wish this was a priority with you guys.
Dave0 -
Jon,
I've noticed that once I upgraded to 4.7 the colorvalues and the density numbers have gone missing, I'm a little confused as to why there are no numbers in the program anymore. I may have switched them off somehow but can not seem to bring them back? what am I doing wrong here?
thanks,
Joshua0 -
[quote="Jon"] wrote:
Ulf and I have spent much time indicating what features are in the pipeline. I will not comment any further except to say that Capture One will only continue to improve. We are a very small company and things take time, but we are always committed to producing the best product we can. [end of quote]
I'm a very small company as well - it's called me. However, I get commissioned to take photographs because my clients KNOW i will guarantee a result & will work all hours to achieve it. They don't choose me because 'I'm continuing to improve'.
So, in your endeavours to produce the best product you can, perhaps you can stop adding endless new useless features & fix the current ones that either don't work properly or even at all?
The hardware seems fine it's the damn software you produce to process those files through that's not that good. Maybe your developers should concentrate on getting it to do what they think it should do so it works at 100% before asking half the world what they would like it to do. If you asked 5 photographers what they would like & how their workflow operates you'd get 10 different answers. Now multiply that by your client list & how many options are you asking your programmers to build in? No wonder it's keeps falling over & this forum is full of hacked off users.
Design the bloody software correctly & in a sensible user friendly mode, then we the users make a workflow we like that works to it. In the same way we adapt to manual/auto or lefthand/righthand drive vehicles.0
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