Tiger & C1: Glacially slow. AM I THE ONLY ONE?
Since upgrading to OS 10.4.0 (and .1 and .2), Capture One has become glacially slow. On my G5 dual 2Ghz, it takes about 3 seconds for each thumbnail to appear when importing 1ds files.
For this reason I stuck with OS 10.3 on my Powerbook. It processed my Canon files with C1 MUCH faster than my G5. But since nobody seemed to be discssing this issue, I thought maybe it was something unique to my G5, so I finally upgraded to Tiger on my Powerbook (1 Ghz). WRONG. Now it takes almost 6 seconds for each thumbnail on the PBook.
The quality of C1-processed images is exceptional, but after 6 months I'm losing patience. Now I can't even contact cusomter support; the page returns a server error message. AM I THE ONLY PERSON HAVING THESE PROBLEMS? WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET MY $500.00 INVESTMENT WORKING PROPERLY AGAIN (revert to Panther? Switch to Windoze? Gimme a break)
For this reason I stuck with OS 10.3 on my Powerbook. It processed my Canon files with C1 MUCH faster than my G5. But since nobody seemed to be discssing this issue, I thought maybe it was something unique to my G5, so I finally upgraded to Tiger on my Powerbook (1 Ghz). WRONG. Now it takes almost 6 seconds for each thumbnail on the PBook.
The quality of C1-processed images is exceptional, but after 6 months I'm losing patience. Now I can't even contact cusomter support; the page returns a server error message. AM I THE ONLY PERSON HAVING THESE PROBLEMS? WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET MY $500.00 INVESTMENT WORKING PROPERLY AGAIN (revert to Panther? Switch to Windoze? Gimme a break)
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I don't have a problem with speed and Tiger. I think you will find it is another issue. How did you get C1 into Tiger. Did you use Migrate or a fresh install?
Bob0 -
I haven't developed any new speed problems with Tiger on my Powerbook. C1 has always been slow at generating previews and thumbnails in my opinion. It seems to me that the previews are much larger than they need to be (and larger than they used to be in older versions of C1).
Anyway, it does seem like your computer is excessively slow for some reason. I would try updating your OS to 10.4.2. Maybe there's some quirk with that's been ironed out in the maintenance releases. Good luck.
WF0 -
Even on a dual processor 2.7 GHz G5 C1 is painfully slow. My single processor 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 almost matches the performance of Apple's flagship dual processor machine. Even just switching from image to image is really sluggish even after the previews have already been rendered. My PowerBook (1.67 GHz G4) takes 42 seconds to process a single 1DMkII file (that's averaged over 50 conversions, color noise supression set to 3. Noise supression and banding supression turned all the way down, shaprness at \"sharper\", 65, and 3 for threshold). A 1.73 GHz Pentium M cranks that out in about 20 to 22 seconds. Speed wise PCs are faster but this is really ridiculous, they're not THAT much faster. In a recent test I did using ACR in PSCS2, the PowerBook slightly edged out the PC in terms of RAW conversion performance (1.67 GHz G4 vs. 1.73 GHz Pentium M, both machines configured with 1 gig of RAM). When I have a chance I intend to test the RAW conversion performance of DPP and Bibble on both platforms to see how they do but I suspect that the PowerBook shouldn't be twice as slow as the PC laptop.
I'm not so sure this is a Tiger thing as it is a 3.6 vs. 3.7 thing as I seem to recall that 3.6 was quicker although I never really got a lot of seat time to have a really good sense for when things started getting sluggish.
Cheers, Joe0 -
[quote="Wolf Follower" wrote:
Anyway, it does seem like your computer is excessively slow for some reason. I would try updating your OS to 10.4.2. Maybe there's some quirk with that's been ironed out in the maintenance releases. Good luck.
WF
In his message he says that he's already upgraded to 10.4.2.
Cheers, Joe0 -
Yes, I have also found CO incredibly slow with thumbnail generation for 1Ds files after switching to Tiger compared with 10.3.9. I have reported this, but have had no response. Perhaps it is a problem specific to 1Ds files, especially if no one else is seeing this? Either way, it is making Capture One almost impossible to use.
My observations are that:
a) CO no longer displays the embedded thumbnail of the 1Ds raw file which it used to do under 10.3.x whilst it is generating its own previews
b) It seems to only 'see' 2 files at a time, generating thumbnails and previews for just 2 files. Sometimes it then moves on to the others and generates previews, but very often it doesn't unless I click on a blank white thumbnail.
Before anyone queries the health of my system, I am confident this is a Capture One problem and not a problem with my system. In fact, I'm so confident I will donate £100 to a charity of Phase One's choice if they can prove this is not a Capture One bug.
So, support, are you willing to take up this challenge?
Jason0 -
As stated in my first entry, I have already updated the OS to 10.4.2. And based on another query, I tried wiping the HD and doing a clean install of the OS and C1, with no improvement in speed.
The painfully slow thumbnails appeared on both Mac systems (G5 dual and Powerbook) independently, both times after switching to Tiger. Nothing is shared between the 2 computers that could cause slow performance. This is obviously a Canon/C1 problem.
Does anyone from Phase One monitor these forums?0 -
<<The painfully slow thumbnails appeared on both Mac systems (G5 dual and Powerbook) independently, both times after switching to Tiger. Nothing is shared between the 2 computers that could cause slow performance. This is obviously a Canon/C1 problem. >>
I get 186 1ds mk2 files opened up in C1 in the time it takes to blow my nose. I think that is pretty fast. OSX 10.4.2 Dual 2.7 Ghz PowerPC G5 2.5 GB DDR Sdram.
As I said earlier this is not a C1 problem if I and others don't also get slow thumbs.
Have you run all the utilities? Mac Janitor, Verify and fix, Disk Warrior? Are the files on an external drive? How good is the cable?
Bob0 -
How can you state categorically that \"this is not a C1 problem if I and others don't also get slow thumbs\". There are a lot of variables. Maybe it's a problem with C1 and 1Ds, but not C1 and 1Ds Mark II? Maybe C1 has a problem with only some graphics card drivers? Hard drives?
Again, 2 independent machines, both clean installs of both Tiger & C1. Internal HDs, formatted before installing OS. I fixed permissions after installing, and verified the disks. I ran Techtool Pro and it found no problems. C1 was fast on both machines using Panther, slow on both machines using Tiger. All other software performed at least as well in Tiger as in Panther. What conclusion would you draw?0 -
I also have 1ds mk1 files and there isn't a problem there. What is the speed of your external HD? What type of cable? Firewire 800?
Or are you saying you have the files and the programme on the same disk? Is this wise? I have always believed one needed the programmes on one disk and the working files on a separate HD.
While not blaming Tiger I did have early problems with it even though I was paying a mac expert to set up a new computer. There are known driver and programme install problems with Tiger. I still don't have all parts of my HP RIP working for instance.0 -
Bob,
Like Phodographer, I am also experiencing problems with slow and disfunctional thumbnail generation for 1Ds mkI files under Tiger that I do not see under 10.3.9. Like the original poster, I am confident this is not a problem with a 'corrupt' operating system (a bug in Tiger is a possibility though).
May I trouble you to do a quick test please? Could you crete a new folder and put about 20 1Ds Mk I files in it. Then start up CO and navigate to that folder using the organise tool so that it has to create new thumbnails and previews. A few questions:
1) Does CO display the embedded camera-generated thumbnail for each file on the first pass, and are these gradually replaced by 'true' thumbnails as CO generates the previews?
I no longer have the embedded camera-generated thumbnails display on the first pass. I just see white thumbnail squares under Tiger. Under 10.3.9, they are displayed correctly.
2) When the thumbnail generation process starts, how many thumbnails does CO say it has left to process in the status bar?
Under Tiger, I only see a thumbnail count of 2. Once that counts down to 0, it then goes back to 2 again. I can't remember when this changed, but I'm sure that in the old days it used to display a total count of the thumbnails left to process.
3) Are thumbnails generated for all the files 'on view' in the thumbnail window, and are they generated in a timely manner?
Under Tiger, sometimes thumbnails are generated for the next 2 files automatically, other times it stalls and I'm left with blank white squares.
If you could help with this investigation, I would be very grateful. Only use 1Ds mk I files though!
Thanks
Jason0 -
1) Does CO display the embedded camera-generated thumbnail for each file on the first pass, and are these gradually replaced by 'true' thumbnails as CO generates the previews?
I no longer have the embedded camera-generated thumbnails display on the first pass. I just see white thumbnail squares under Tiger. Under 10.3.9, they are displayed correctly.
A: Two thumbs appear instantly. The others appear in about 1 second each. Any that have appeared give a full size image if clicked on instantly. It doesn't seem to need a second wave of processing.
2) When the thumbnail generation process starts, how many thumbnails does CO say it has left to process in the status bar?
Under Tiger, I only see a thumbnail count of 2. Once that counts down to 0, it then goes back to 2 again. I can't remember when this changed, but I'm sure that in the old days it used to display a total count of the thumbnails left to process.
A: I also get 2,1,0
3) Are thumbnails generated for all the files 'on view' in the thumbnail window, and are they generated in a timely manner?
Under Tiger, sometimes thumbnails are generated for the next 2 files automatically, other times it stalls and I'm left with blank white squares.
A: I never get blank white squares for more than a second or two.
I tried a parallel test with Mk 2 files. They were faster than the Mk 1 files and 1st appeared with a black line above and below before popping to full frame.
Mk 2 nor Mk 1 are causing me any sleep. Both are fast enough.
I have an ongoing problem with a HP printer installer and do know that Tiger has install problems. My C1 was a migrate from an earlier machine and then an update on top. Perhaps clean install doesn't work so well?0 -
Bob,
Thanks very much for taking the time to try the thumbnail tests. Your obsevations are interesting:
> Re Q2, Number of thumbnails left to process
>A: I also get 2,1,0
Thanks for the confirmation. This looks like a bug to me, introduced in the 3.7.x versions. I'll file a report.
>re Q1, Change of thumbnails as previews are generated
>A: Two thumbs appear instantly. The others appear in about 1 second
>each. Any that have appeared give a full size image if clicked on >instantly. It doesn't seem to need a second wave of processing.
and
>A: I never get blank white squares for more than a second or two.
This is an interesting one. I think that you are actually seeing the same thing as I am, but the transition is occuring much, much more rapidly on your system (Dual 2.7Ghz G5) compared with mine (an embarassingly lowly G4).
On my system under 10.3.x, there was a clear transition between white square -> embedded camera-generated thumbnail -> capture one thumbnail. The first stage would occur rapidly, the second would take more time.
Under 10.4.x, the sequence using the same version of Capture One seems to go straight from white square -> to capture one thumbnail. This takes a very long time on my system, but not on yours.
So I postulate that we are both seeing a change in behaviour with 10.3.x v 10.4.x with thumbnail generation, but your system is so much faster in generating the final Capture One thumbnail that this change isn't noticeable, and so is not an issue for you.
>Q3 Stalling of thumbnail generation
I guess this is the real breaker, I have this problem on my G4, but you don't on your G5. I don't know why, but for me, it is causing real problems with using Capture One under Tiger.
So could this be a G4 + Tiger versus a G5 + Tiger issue? It would be interesting to here what results other G4 users have with these tests.
>I have an ongoing problem with a HP printer installer and do know that
> Tiger has install problems.
Indeed there are issues. I have heard that the 10.4.3 release that is being prepared has some 500+ bug fixes. One is left with the impression that Tiger was clealry rushed out before it was ready.
Thanks again for your help, Bob
Best wishes
Jason0 -
Thanks Jason, for the detailed test request and summary, and Bob, for the detailed answers.
I wish, Jason, your conclusion about the problem being strictly G4-related were true. But the differences in timing between my system and Bob's certainly can't be fully explained by the difference in processor speed (2.7ghz vs my 2 ghz). I assume Bob's g5 is a dual, as is mine.
I observe the same behavior as both of you, with 2 thumbnails being produced at a time, but on my G5 dual they average almost 3 seconds each, and on my Powerbook, over 5 seconds.0 -
Config
PowerBook G4/1.33ghz/1.5go ram/80go HD 5400rpm
The PowerBook has 3 partitions
20go for Mac OS 10.3.9
20go for Mac OS 10.4.3
35go for Data.
I did a clean install of 10.4.3 and I can reproduce the lack of speed of C1 Pro 3.7.2 under 10.4.x
The Data partition has Ignore permissions. All partitons are Mac OS Extented Journaled. I've passed Disk Utility, Disk Warrior, repair the permissiosn using the Terminal, ... The partitons are in good shape. i've been working with Macs for over ten years an always worked with partitions, never had any problems even with Quark 6.5, except C1 Pro 3.7.x
If I process images with C1 Pro 3.7.2 under OS 10.3.9, I have a normal output of the files, about 8 minutes to process 45 images from an XTrem Card 4go
If I process images with C1 Pro 3.7.2 under OS 10.4.2 or 10.4.3 It now takes about 25 minutes to process 45 images XTrem Card 4go
It does not matter where I capture the images, the Data partition or the OS partition, same performance or lack or performance.
I've done the test again using a G5/2ghz Dual/4.5go of ram this time using two hard drive. One HD was running 10.3.9/C1 Pro 3.7.2, normal time, faster than the PowerBook, which is normal.
If I swap the HD for 10.4.3/C1 Pro 3.72, now the process is much slower.
Bottom line THERE is a problem with C1 Pro 3.7.x under 10.4.x. Try to hide C1 Pro with Cmd-H, it wont work, just like Quark 6.5 under 10.4.x..
Under 10.4.x C1 Pro seems to produce temps files that are not deleted until a restart, Phostoshop had that problem a couple of years ago...0
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