Capture One to replace Lightroom
Hi from a newbie here who's looking for an alternative for Lightroom. Currently the trial for Windows is downloading but I'll be using C1 on both my Windows and Mac machines. My first question is: do I need separate licenses for that or can I share one license on both Mac and Windows? Nobody else but me will operate the software.
I've been working with C1 version 4 many years ago and tried updates with every major release. Eventually I decided to use Lightroom. I only use the editor features in Lightroom and none of the management features. In fact, I don't believe in these integrated workflow tools and I prefer to choose the best DAM and combine it with the best editor. Lightroom tries both and does a great job in editing features but lacks when you need advanced DAM feature.
This time I'll be seriously looking at C1 to completely replace LR. My main motivation is that with Lightroom I constantly have the idea that I have the Sword of Damocles hanging over my head, waiting to push their subscription model on me. Something that I'll won't do for any software today.
Any tips or advice from previous Lightroom converters to C1 is more than welcome. One of the things that concern me is how much effort it will be to move the edits from LR to C1. Both use a proprietary editing model and so the edits won't be exchangeable.
I've been working with C1 version 4 many years ago and tried updates with every major release. Eventually I decided to use Lightroom. I only use the editor features in Lightroom and none of the management features. In fact, I don't believe in these integrated workflow tools and I prefer to choose the best DAM and combine it with the best editor. Lightroom tries both and does a great job in editing features but lacks when you need advanced DAM feature.
This time I'll be seriously looking at C1 to completely replace LR. My main motivation is that with Lightroom I constantly have the idea that I have the Sword of Damocles hanging over my head, waiting to push their subscription model on me. Something that I'll won't do for any software today.
Any tips or advice from previous Lightroom converters to C1 is more than welcome. One of the things that concern me is how much effort it will be to move the edits from LR to C1. Both use a proprietary editing model and so the edits won't be exchangeable.
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A Capture One license, either Express or Pro, comes with 2 activations, either Mac or Windows.
In Capture One Pro, you can organize your images with catalogs or sessions (or both if you like). A CO catalog can import a Lr catalog. Adjustments are imported as well, to some extend. Best test yourself. A session can not import a Lr catalog. Bot a session and a catalog can import any image or folder of images without Lr adjustments.0 -
Thank you for the info about licenses. That's positive news.
About catalog etc. I'm not the least interested in management features in my RAW editor. I use Photo Supreme as my photo manager and am very happy with that.
About the edits. Half the edits is of no use as I'm not planning to go through all my images (or even the best of) to redo the adjustments. Right now I'm thinking of exporting everything in LR to TIF files and keep those as my edited versions of the RAW in Photo Supreme. And for new images I can then use C1.
I've been playing with C1 a bit today, what I do like is the editor quality. What I don't like (yet?) is the cluttered interface. That may get some getting used to.
I was also unpleasantly surprised that I had to "import" my images. For me that is a disappointment as I'm looking for a RAW editor and don't like that I'm bothered with such "management" features. With moving away from LR i am trying to also get rid of its forced "management" overhead. But again, I love the editor quality and how it works. If only it was just that.0 -
[quote="HansDeZomers" wrote:
T....
I was also unpleasantly surprised that I had to "import" my images. For me that is a disappointment as I'm looking for a RAW editor and don't like that I'm bothered with such "management" features......
This is where I use Media Pro to send a few selected photos from a large shoot into a Capture One Session.
MP is not the best DAM, it is not the worst. But it works very well for me in this mode.
I also use Lightroom for a number of steps in my workflow, and I don't find it unwieldy to use all three packages.0 -
[quote="HansDeZomers" wrote:
I was also unpleasantly surprised that I had to "import" my images.
Errmmm... Are you perhaps using the "Express" incarnation of the software?
With "Pro" you can simply - using a "session" - navigate to a folder while you're in Capture One and open it (and the files therein) without any need to import into a catalogue.
This is the main (probably the only, if I'm honest) reason I finally reached into my pocket and paid the considerable premium for the Pro version...
I also have to say that I'm also still a Lightroom user - there are a number of things that Lr can do, image quality-wise, that Capture One still can't do as well...0 -
[quote="HansDeZomers" wrote:
I've been playing with C1 a bit today, what I do like is the editor quality. What I don't like (yet?) is the cluttered interface. That may get some getting used to.
You can create and save your own interface screens to be as busy or as uncluttered as you wish - more or less.
There are some sample Workspaces included in the Pro version - not sure about the Express version (if that is what you are running as a trial.)
There are many other aspects that you can tune to personal preferences if you wish to do so.
HTH.
Grant0 -
Thank you for the replies. On the first start, the application asked if I wanted a Express or a Pro trial. And I selected the Pro there. I'll look into simplifying the interface.
One more question; when you say "work from a session", what does that mean? I had to import my images before I could work with them. If there's a way to access my files from a directory/folder browser then that would be helpful.
Also, I've been reading about cos files, but up to now I haven't seen any created sidecar files on my file system. Can I export the edits somehow to the file system (like Lightroom does to XMP)? Cos files would be sufficient I guess.0 -
Capture One offers Catalogs (something like Lightroom) and sessions.
A session is group of images (or more accurately original images and edit instruction variants) that likely share some common attributes (A studio shoot, or "2014" or "Landscapes" for example) but are entirely flexible in use.
A session has a 'managing' file that keeps links in place between the original file, the sidecar edit instruction file, the preview and so on. To get to the image(s) you wish to use there is a a Library function that allows several approaches to getting to the images you want but at the starting point is basically a folder browser just like Windows.
So you have some images somewhere, you create a session (or use an existing session if you have one already that you are happy to use for this batch of images), browse to the folder and then start viewing and editing your images. The folder will be added to the Session "Favourites" for future reference and easy access.
The Session master database file will be in a session folder (set up when you create the session) but the other files will normally be co-located somewhere close to the originals (but separate) .
There is no NEED to Import at all.
Really the choice is yours. I mostly shoot events so I tend to use a new session for each event and then Import from the various cards into the session using file and folder naming and applying some common bases settings as part of that process.
However the Import processes can be used to copy images from a card (for example) to a local location (or two if you want a backup), rename the images during import and, if required, automatically apply specified adjustments, etc. It will batch load and process the files you select and ensure that previews are created at the time - and a few other things if you need them. You can be doing something else whilst all this activity is taking place, athough an a suitably well specified machine it does not take long.
I also keep a few 'random' sessions for the odd shots and non-event activities that do not justify having a dedicated session. Sometime I import and use the import tools available. Sometimes I just copy the files and then browse to the them. At other times I just review the shots on the original card and decide whether they are of any interest. To keep I will either then import or simple copy the files to a computer drive and access directly from there
There is similar functionality of you use tethering to populate a session.
I would recommend reviewing the Help File as an outline introduction for each feature and function as needed. It's a good starting point. For anything where you feel you need more in-depth information there will probably be a video or two available.
HTH.
Grant0 -
Hans,
in the Library tab, simply select (or create by clicking on the "+" sign) a session - either the default session, or one named to your choice - and then you can access your images from within session mode by browsing to them within the System Folders tab.
http://kazemisu.me.uk/images/cap_one_session.jpg
But to reiterate, this is only possible within Pro - Express no longer allows it, for some arbitrary and inexplicable reason (although I have my - not very complimentary to Phase One - theory about that).0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
I also have to say that I'm also still a Lightroom user - there are a number of things that Lr can do, image quality-wise, that Capture One still can't do as well...
Hi Keith
Could you summarize just which issues these are? I'm considering moving into C1, but there could be a deal-breaker for me. I prefer to stay in one software environment.0 -
Off the top of my head (and not all directly related to Image Quality):
I consider Lr's highlights and shadows tools to be notably better than Capture One's; I like that I can apply NR and highlight recovery (and everything else) on a brush in Lr; I appreciate Adobe's efforts to replicate my camera's "styles", which makes it very quick and easy to try different looks (and i consider Lr's profiles to be more accurate); depending on which camera I'm using, I prefer Lr's noise reduction (although Capture One does better than Lr with my Canon 70D); I rely a great deal on Lr's Sharpness Masking tool; and - a real issue for me recently, although not IQ related - Lr's watermarking functionality is much better, much more intuitive and much more like what you'd expect, than Capture One's.
But Capture One still has much to recommend it too. I'm as big a fan as anyone of how Capture One renders colour - the "Capture One Look" - even though by Phase One's own admission, its profiles aren't intended to be colorimetrically accurate; I actually like Capture One's Spot Removal tool better than Lr's alternative; I much prefer sessions to catalogues; and - especially with light use of the Structure slider in the Clarity tool - I get sharper, more detailed images than from Lr.
Bottom line is that still use both converters (and Photo Ninja and DxO Optics Pro), because they all have their strengths and weaknesses.0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
Off the top of my head (and not all directly related to Image Quality):
I consider Lr's highlights and shadows tools to be notably better than Capture One's; I like that I can apply NR and highlight recovery (and everything else) on a brush in Lr; I appreciate Adobe's efforts to replicate my camera's "styles", which makes it very quick and easy to try different looks (and i consider Lr's profiles to be more accurate); depending on which camera I'm using, I prefer Lr's noise reduction (although Capture One does better than Lr with my Canon 70D); I rely a great deal on Lr's Sharpness Masking tool; and - a real issue for me recently, although not IQ related - Lr's watermarking functionality is much better, much more intuitive and much more like what you'd expect, than Capture One's.
But Capture One still has much to recommend it too. I'm as big a fan as anyone of how Capture One renders colour - the "Capture One Look" - even though by Phase One's own admission, its profiles aren't intended to be colorimetrically accurate; I actually like Capture One's Spot Removal tool better than Lr's alternative; I much prefer sessions to catalogues; especially with light use of the Structure slider in the Clarity tool, I get sharper, more detailed images than from Lr.
Hi Keith
Thanks. I also make large use of the sharpening masking tool, and highlight recovery.
It's interesting what you say about the spot removal tool, because the new LR5 clone tool is very useful for me, and almost always obviates my needing to go to Photoshop for smart healing. However, as far as I know, C1 does not have this feature.
I also make frequent use of the targeted adjustment tool for tone control, color control, and B&W, and I think I will miss them a lot.
My other issue is that I tend to be an early adopter, and C1 takes longer to support cameras than LR. Having said that, last time round for the Fuji X-T1, C1 came out first!0 -
I didn't know that the Express version no longer allowed sessions.
For customization, remember to save your new workspace in Windows >Workspace > Save Workspace. For instance, I made a new tool tab that shows 4 curves. Luminance, R, G, & B. A couple of the curves are floating tools I created by dragging them off the tool tab. I have to use floating tools to see all four at once...
I have typed a long post and I hope it gets you started with sessions. I had many questions and these are things I have learned. Some of this you may already have discovered and some is a little like SFA's post.... I hope there is enough new stuff to justify the length! Text tutorials are here: http://blog.phaseone.com
At the minimum, a session must always be used. However, you can ignore any session benefits and simply use C1 to browse to files and edit and go. I would recommend using C1 for some file management and there are comments about that below. ( > Deleting Images & Other File Management)
> Sidecar Files
C1 won't have the type you may have in mind. There are no sidecars in the image folder, but there is a sub-directory in the image folder and this contains previews and edits and files for masks. This folder may not be visible unless you enable 'view hidden files'. C1 can generate .xmp (I think it is .xmp) sidecars with exif info, but the default sidecars are in the sub-directories.
> No Image db Req.
I think C1 is great for seeing and working on images stored on my computer. Not having to import images was a plus for me. When you first start C1, you should be in a session. There are either sessions or catalogs and I think you prefer sessions.
> Session
A session can be made for different projects or you can just use one session forever. Either way, a session is as barebones as it gets. A session does have some management aspects to it, but they not intrusive and you still have easy control of where your images are. A session has no database file that sucks in images and edits...
> Session Stuff
I use the 'session for project' way of using C1. I have a session for my efforts at macro pictures and sessions for vacations. A session starts you out with a basic structure for storing and handling files. Really, they are just some handy shortcuts. When you create a new session, you can choose the name and location of the directory it lives in.
For pictures of my trip to Buncombe County, I create a session. This gives me a three folders (Trash, Output, Favorites) plus a fourth, if I choose 'tethered' session (Capture) in the new session dialog box. So, my new session (2014-05 Buncombe Co.) is created in a directory of that name with four sub-directories Trash, Output, Selects, Capture... The Output folder is where rendered images are dumped. You can change which folder receives rendered output. Trash is separate from the OS trash. If I use the default session structure with these four directories plus however many sub-directories I like, I have one directory with all my stuff in it. My session directory, '2014-05 Buncombe Co.', has everything including even the images I have sent to Trash. One folder to copy to a flash drive or backup.
In the root of the 2014-05 Buncombe Co. directory is a file with extension '.cosessiondb'. It is benign and stores things like shortcuts I make within the session itself and remembers my last location when I close the session. It stores no edits and stores no images. Because the '.cosessiondb' file lives in there with everything else, it goes for the ride when you move the session directory so no hunting for it in local/apps/folder/this.that
I don't have to import a thing. I put my pictures in the Capture directory just because it is a way to keep them with other things, like Output, related to the project. However, from my session, I can reference or browse to images anywhere on my computer. No importing needed. Importing does allow me to do some things like adding author or copy write or whichever to files. Other stuff as well, I guess, but I don't import...
So, I have a couple sub-directories under capture and they are named for date. If you look at the screenshot by Keith Reeder » Sat May 31, 2014 9:09 am, you will see 'session folders' at the top. For my session, a Capture folder would be there because I like it that way. These are shortcuts to the directories the session created. Because my images are in sub-directories of the Capture directory, they won't show up if I click on Capture in 'Session Folders'... Look down to 'Session Favorites'. Here, I will use the + button to add shortcuts/favorites to the folders with my images, 05-16 & 05-17. A file browser is available below 'Session Favorites'.
> Session Management Features
A session has some DAM-type features. These are stored in the .cosessiondb file. I can search for images by ranking/star or color or keyword or whichever. I can set up a filter for pictures taken at 77mm. All this works only on the directories associated with the session. These are the four default directories and any I mark as 'Favorite'. As far as I know, sessions don't include subdirectories. So, if I add a subdirectory called 'bridge pano' to '05-16', it will be invisible to session searches until I make 'bridge pano' a 'Favorite'. All benign in that you can use them or not.
As I look through images in '05-16' & '05-17', I can take advantage of a session feature and send images to my Selects folder. This is one of the 3/4 default directories created with a new session. If I do this, images and their edits are physically moved to this location. They are not simply referenced. It is just a way to group all best images... I could sort through both directories and filter the best... This directory, 'Selects', may or may not suit you.
As far as the 3 or 4 default folders, they don't have to be the ones C1 created. If I don't like the default name or location of the 'Selects' folder, I can change it. The 'Selects' folder could be outside my '2014-05 Buncombe C.' session folder. I can use the file browser in C1 to locate a directory, right click on it, set it as 'Selects'. I might choose to name this folder 'Buncombe's Best'. After setting it as the folder for my 'selects', the Select shortcut in the Session Folders panel just points there; the shortcut name will remain Selects and not become 'Buncombe's Best'...
Looking at the screenshot Keith posted, note the gearwheel icon next to Outputs in the Sessions Folder Panel and then look down to Favorites panel. Keith has made a favorite link to 'C17' & 'arw'. The 'C17' favorite also has a gearwheel next to it. Instead of using the default Output folder, Keith has chosen to use a folder called 'C17'. When he clicks on Output in the Session Folder panel, he will be taken to 'C17'... He has a Favorite link to it as well. If Keith wants to quickly redirect his rendered images to 'arw', he can right click on that favorite link and choose 'Set As Output'. He could also redirect Selects in this way...
On the Output tab, you can set up different 'recipes'... I have one I called 'JPG 1600' and it resizes the long side of the image to 1600 pixels, saves as JPG, and puts the image in a subdirectory (I named it.. JPG 1600) of my Outputs folder, wherever it is currently directed to. I like this.
A session really is informal. If I add images to '05-16' directory, they will show up in my '2014-05 Buncombe Co.' session. Even if I don't import them.
> Deleting Images & Other File Management
I used to use the Windows file browser to select images for deletion. This is fine and doesn't affect your session. Open the session later and C1 doesn't care if the images are gone and just goes on. However, if I delete the images with the file browser, I still have all the sidecar files. Mask sidecars can be large... There are two ways to get rid of the sidecars.
(1) go into the sub-directories and delete them myself
(2) use C1 to delete the images
Even if you don't like the session concept and will always browse to a folder to work on your images (and this works great), it is useful to use C1 itself to delete the images. Within the C1 session, you can either send images to your session Trash folder (separate from OS trash) or delete them permanently. Either way, all the sidecars go with them It is easier to be neat. I go through clicking and deleting because I find it faster than clicking and permanently deleting. Then I use the OS file browser to just wipe out the C1 trash folder.
I also recommend dragging and dropping within C1 to move images. If you want to move an entire directory of images, use the OS file browser and the sub-directories with sidecars will go with it. Easy. However, if I move one image with the OS file browser, my sidecars will be left behind... I can go to the sub-directories and move them myself (ensure I replace them in the proper sub-directories of the location I have moved my image to) or I can use C1. If I use C1, the sidecars will be moved.
Renaming image files within C1 also ensures the sidecar names are changed as well...
So, the only thing you may want to use C1 for is file management... Otherwise, any Selects, Favorites or sorting or whatever can be ignored and you use the C1 file browser to find your image for editing.
> Catalog
A catalog is a great database similar, I guess, to what Lr produces. There are two kinds: Managed and Referenced. For managed, both the images and your edits to them live inside the database. Sure, you can have a copy of your images outside the database as a backup, but edits reference on the files in the db. Referenced catalogs store only the edits inside the db and the images are outside... For either, you must export the adjustments to get the sidecar files so you can move the image+edits to another location or to use outside the db. Say you would like to export a group of pictures to use in a session format...0
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