How to get better highlight recovery
Hello,
I played with the local adjustments together with the HDR tool and found some things which I'm not sure what to with.
Base line: Highlight recovery has different impact depending on which layer an exposure correction is applied.
This is what I did:
Opened a Nikon D700 NEF raw file and applied the HDR tool (Highlight 100)
Set exposure to -1.6.
Added an adjust layer called "HDR 1", and clicked "Invert mask" to get a full mask
Added two color readouts.
On the screenshot this is the first picture, variant [1].
Cloned the picture to have variant [2], the second picture.
On this variant [2] exposure was set to 0 in the background layer and on layer "HDR 1" it was set to -1.6
Now compare the value for the river which is on the right side which is darker on variant [2] .
It looks like exposure correction together with highlight recovery works in different ways in both pictures. I tried with another image with the same result.
Is this intended and reliable and one can work with that? I would appreciate that very much because it gives a far, far better highlight recovery than another +100 on the the second layer or even a third layer.
Or is this considered a bug and will change in future versions?
Thanks,
Stefan
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56360985/phaseone/exposure_with_layer.jpg
I played with the local adjustments together with the HDR tool and found some things which I'm not sure what to with.
Base line: Highlight recovery has different impact depending on which layer an exposure correction is applied.
This is what I did:
Opened a Nikon D700 NEF raw file and applied the HDR tool (Highlight 100)
Set exposure to -1.6.
Added an adjust layer called "HDR 1", and clicked "Invert mask" to get a full mask
Added two color readouts.
On the screenshot this is the first picture, variant [1].
Cloned the picture to have variant [2], the second picture.
On this variant [2] exposure was set to 0 in the background layer and on layer "HDR 1" it was set to -1.6
Now compare the value for the river which is on the right side which is darker on variant [2] .
It looks like exposure correction together with highlight recovery works in different ways in both pictures. I tried with another image with the same result.
Is this intended and reliable and one can work with that? I would appreciate that very much because it gives a far, far better highlight recovery than another +100 on the the second layer or even a third layer.
Or is this considered a bug and will change in future versions?
Thanks,
Stefan
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56360985/phaseone/exposure_with_layer.jpg
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Inspired by this thread I made a similar test and I have the same "problem" that the same value for exposure in background layer or additional layer produces different results.
It would be very interesting to know if this is a bug or an intention.0 -
Looks like the adjustments in the background layer are working on the "original" picture and adjustments in additional layer are working on the output of "orig picture + background layer adjustments". 0 -
[quote="Waschbaer" wrote:
Looks like the adjustments in the background layer are working on the "original" picture and adjustments in additional layer are working on the output of "orig picture + background layer adjustments".
That is correct and intentional.0 -
Wow, that can make a big difference to the effectiveness of highlight recovery, I'd love to see what difference it made to those Gannets Keith was talking about 0 -
What we're seeing here isn't better highlight recovery - it's just shifting a curve, in effect: there's no more detail in the "after" image than there was in the "before". 0 -
I did edit the post and change some values I used for Variant 1 v. Variant 2 and added a sample
Still... I will admit I am not sure what I am looking at...
Not sure how this all adds together.
I tried a harshly lit silver figure of some sort.
On Variant 1: background = +3 exposure brightness
On Variant 2: background = 0, layer = +1.4 exposure brightness
Ver different results...
I found I could pick some key points (where I wanted a certain brightness) and then have the Variant 2 layer be maybe +1.4 to match these key points between the two variants. This left a completely different tone to the rest of the image.
I hadn't noticed this relationship before so thanks for bringing it up.
As I say, I will have to study all this a bit before I can learn to foresee how things will be depending where brightening is done in the order in the stack of layers. In my personal example, I preferred brightening on background layer. But the difference is worth considering...
+ I agree; I don't feel like there is any new information or additional recovery
but that doesn't change the effect and usefulness of knowing about whatever it is that is happening :^)
++ I take that back and prefer the image with the brightening on the layer (variant 2). I imagine I could have gotten there some other way (curve or whatever).
Below, all is the same other than
On Variant 1: background = +3 exposure brightness
On Variant 2: background = 0, layer = +1.4 exposure brightness
The reason to choose +1.4 on Variant 2 is to match brightness of eye/cheek
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/15186016760_302fc7b787_o.jpg
V.2 is more dramatic..
V.1 probably more realistic for what the eye saw..0 -
Much better results with a sunlit black and white bird
Much better to take the brightness and not add it to 'background' but to add it to a layer on top of other adjustments
Perhaps this could be moved or added to Workflow and Common Photography Exploration forum...0 -
@Christian: Thank you for the clarification.
@Keith: You are right, there are no more details shown in the highlights because there are no
one at all in the raw file, maybe a bad example. But t demonstrates that applied this way highlight recovery has more impact on the midtones as it does in C1 7.
I tried with an image that has details and with only 1 layer, they came down from 255 to 237 so details where shown. I set exposure on background layer to +1 and on layer 1 to -1. To get a similar result without changing exposure 7 layers where needed.
But of course I would like to have a highlight recovery that gives that result without these workarounds.
Stefan0 -
What we're seeing here isn't better highlight recovery - it's just shifting a curve, in effect: there's no more detail in the "after" image than there was in the "before".
Sure, but I haven't been able to come up with a curve that works this effectively for maintaining/improving highlights, and being limited to one curve in C1 means for me this is a very useful addition, and frees up the Curves tool for other uses.0 -
Just dipping my toe in the water with C1.
First impressions are that the Highlight slider could be stronger and a Whites slider (is Brightness trying to approximate this?) would be nice.
Beautiful software.
D.0 -
What do you mean by whites sliders? What should be the effect? 0 -
I think Whites slider is a Lightroom thing.
They have Dark and Blacks as well, I think...?
I guess they function like a parametric equalizer
Perhaps something like Brightness but on different parts of the curve
Dinarius, I thought LR had a Brightness slider ?
Anyway, it affects/shifts the middle part of the curve.
Exposure affects/shifts the whole curve
I can't explain any better or I get into increased likelihood of being wrong...
The Highlights slider was much.. stronger in v7. I felt like it affected more midtones as well as highlights and could easily affect tone or brightness of the image... The Highlight tool in v8 could be considered weaker in that the effects are not as obvious, but they are truly made only to the very high highlights. I think the way the tool works in v8 is better... It isn't intended to be an 'upper curve' or 'brights' adjustment but to affect only true highlights.. I didn't always want midtones affected as with the stronger v7 version of the tool.0 -
[quote="Dinarius" wrote:
Just dipping my toe in the water with C1.
First impressions are that the Highlight slider could be stronger and a Whites slider (is Brightness trying to approximate this?) would be nice.
Beautiful software.
D.
In C1 you have the levels tool, which I don't think you have in Lightroom. Doesn't shifting the two ends of the levels tool in C1 do much the same as the blacks and whites slider in Lightroom?
Ian0 -
In bald terms, the blacks/shadows/whites/highlights sliders in Lightroom boost/reduce roughly a quarter of the histogram each.
There is obviously some inevitable bleed over between them. e.g. dragging the shadows slider severely to the left could push some of the blacks off the 0,0,0, RGB scale. Ditto, pushing the whites to the right and pushing some highlights beyond 255,255,255.
I guess the the middle slider of Levels moved to the left approximates the whites slider in LR.
Anyway, still getting used to it.
C1 is very much Pro to LR's ProSumer. 😊
D.0 -
Glad it is becoming more familiar / easy to work.
The effects can be stacked. Two adjustment layers, one with highlights at 100 and the other with highlights at 32 or whichever. Or, background at 100 and a layer at 47. etc.
So far, I have found doing global brightness/exposure, as described in this thread, on a top layer preferable to doing it on background in all cases but one.
For one image and even though I had some highlight/shadow adjustments also made on the background, brightness/exposure looked better when done on 'background'. So, I still check both methods...
Overall, the tip/idea in this thread has been very useful.0
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