iMac 5k 2017 lag...
Capture One 11 lags when used on my iMac 5k 2017, it has latency for everything I do, there is one second at best, but mostly two, 3 sometimes more than 4 seconds lag until Capture One to respond to my tweaks, simple things like exposure, contrast.
It gets better if I use the application in Low Resolution mode, it is faster but still not perfect, it still lags half a second. I know it does not sound much, but when you edit 500 photos that lag kills my workflow, it slows me down, my hand hurts, precise tweaking is not possible, and all kind of other problems with latency.
I tried Beta 12, but it is the same thing, very, very slow.
I believe this computer is not powerful enough for this amount of pixels, or the software is not optimized well.
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Some context. CaptureOne v11 was introduced in late 2017, the last update to it was in mid 2018. There are now 3 newer versions. In such a situation no SW company would provide anything more than a security patch. (I work for a large international company that creates HW and SW products). Apple for example doesn't even provide security patches for OSX10.13 (introduced in 2017) any more.
The reason for this is that as a new version is developed, the key designers, and eventually the entire design team moves to the latest version. SW tools are also enhanced every year, and setups are improved. A small maintenance team is typically left to support the previous version. Going back 4 releases is like archeology of the distant past.
I have not seen CaptureOne make more than a minor update to an older version even 1 year old (not uncommon) so if you are to engage them with some possibility of success it should be about version 21.
When I enaged them on performance issues I found it useful and effective to take a video screen grab to show the problem and send that to Capture One.
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Thanks for that ericnepean, it makes total sense and I agree with you.
I will try them to give us a solution in general to use Capture One on the iMac 5K with no performance reduction. I actually do not care about the version. I will be happy to upgrade to v21 if that means it works perfectly.
What I do not find fair at all is that for many versions and updates you don't fix this kind of problems and in the end your consumers and users are suffering a low quality experience of your product, in this case, for many years.
As soon as they reply me I will send them video captures and with any news I will keep you posted.0 -
Carlos,
I recently saw an article on-line (might have been a video) that suggested the author considered the concept of a 5k screen to be more than a little unnecessary for almost all purposes and general not a good recommendation unless one was prepared to invest in a considerable amount of powerful hardware and top of the range screens to achieve required levels of performance.
4k was considered somewhat better it one had a genuine need for it. At least the number of pixels to be shuffled around and edited comes within the scope of the performance possible on some almost reasonably priced hardware.
Comparing C1 and LR throughout the comments over the years is interesting. At any point one might find observations that C1 was faster than LR or LR was faster than C1.
That there could be multiple opposing opinions seemed odd.
Back before I looked at C1 and around the time the LR was first released (so late version 1 LR perhaps, but maybe as late as early LR V3) I tried some side by side comparisons between LR and the application I was using at that time.
In terms of perception, LR seemed a lot faster to use.
However when I set up an edit activity that required some considerable processing using tools that offered the same adjustments in both applications the elapsed time from "hit the button" to "image available for further editing was identical as far as I could measure it.
My existing favoured application took the instructions and appeared to do nothing for about 3 seconds and then threw a completed re-calculation at the screen.
LR, on the other hand, returned what seemed to be an instant result ... but did not allow any further activity until 3 seconds had elapsed.
Processing at 100% zoom it looked like the LR processing was being performed on the Preview (jpg) for a fast on screen experience but the rest of the process was then patched in apparently somewhat randomly around the screen until all was complete. At normal viewing resolution that activity was usually invisible to the human eye and the mind's processing ability.
It would be interesting to see if LR still takes the same conceptual approach. But I'm not personally interested enough to make the investigation myself.
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Hi SFA,
Thanks for that. However, this misses the main point that we are trying to solve here...
I could agree that a 5K screen is not necessary for a photographer, however back when I bought this iMac I did not buy it for that feature, and also I would expect it to work smoothly, as it does with every other application.
This is the product Apple put on the market and in terms of display size, it was a great choice. The point here is not to debate if it was worth it or smart to buy this iMac. I already have it and I am "stuck" with it. I guess like many others in this feed. The thing is that I am completely happy with the machine except for the C1 performance on it.
Coming to the comparison between LR and C1, I am personally also not interested. Again, my point here is just to try and find a solution to keep using C1 on my machine without losing performance. I am a happy C1 user and will keep it this way. I would just like C1 to fix this issue for users on 5K iMacs.
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Further to Carlos's comment, the only way to get a 4K iMac is to choose the better of the 21" iMac models, which has a less powerful CPU and GPU than the 27", and RAM is not user configurable.
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Choosing much worse configuration is not a solution. The number of pixels is problematic of course, however if Lightroom can handle it there is no reason why C1 could not. As for LR and comparison, it is not a comparison per se, but it is used only as a benchmark because it is proven to work with 5K iMac without problems.
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I completely agree with both the last comments.
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I have just rechecked the performance of Capture 21 on my late 2015 iMac, i7 processor with 24GB RAM, 2GB video RAM, 1 TB Fusion drive.
I have Filters Tool only on its own custom tab "Filters". I have preview set to 2048.
I don't see many lags as long as 1 second. No lags longer than 1 second.
When I say 1 second, I mean less that the time it takes to say "one one thousand". It could somewhat less, but I don't want put effort into measuring something faster than that.
I started by loading my 16000 image catalog and my 4000 image catalog, then started work on the larger catalog.
I started with full browser, no viewer showing 50 images per screen and scrolling quickly through images. Initially there was a longer lag and CPU was very busy with fans blowing hard; this phase may have lasted 2-5 minutes. But then it seems to have completed that phase, and if I quickly scroll to a new section the thumbnails which are blank appear in less than a second.
If Filters Tab is active, the delay is slightly longer, but still within a second.
If I use Filters tool to select a category of 500 images or so (by date or camera model), the new thumbnails appear within one second.
Now I view some RAW file, Panasonic or Olympus. It opens in less than one second. If I modify exposure or Luma noise, again less than on second.
I have nothing to complain about here.
I recently tried DXO Photolab 4 on a folder of 5700 images, now that was incredibly, unusably slow. The speed reminds me of Capture One 8.
I hope that is helpful.
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I believe you are missing the point as the problem is with editing and how fast C1 reacts to your input, not about how fast it load the files and shows the full preview. Waiting one second for C1 to render the preview is somewhat acceptable, however LR does this in 70 to 100 milliseconds so not very fast.
I understand you are satisfied personally, however this is not good enough.
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I don't understand, do we blame people now who purchases 5k iMac's? Who decides it is necessary or not? I know many professional photographers who has actually purchased 5K iMac's because of the screen size and so one can see their photos nearly at 100%. Moreover CO doesn't show all edits (like noise reduction) if your photo is not at 100% so actually a bigger screen where you can see your photo at 100% might be better or more convenient so you don't keep zooming in and out. What the problem is here is the blunt fact that CO insists (stubbornly) not to utilize Metal API. Frankly I don't care if it exists for Windows or not but if they asks us to pay nearly $400, then they should be supporting Mac fully with the existing APIs.
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Bojan Bojovic wrote
I believe you are missing the point as the problem is with editing and how fast C1 reacts to your input, not about how fast it load the files and shows the full preview. Waiting one second for C1 to render the preview is somewhat acceptable, however LR does this in 70 to 100 milliseconds so not very fast.
I understand you are satisfied personally, however this is not good enough.
Bojan, I was not making a judgment if the performance was good enough for you or not.
I was trying to provide a reference to the performance I see with Capture One 21 on a 5K iMac. What you do with that information, and your personal "good" threshold, is up to you.
The only thing I would advise you to do (as I would advise anybody) is to remove the Filters tool from the Library tab, and put it on its own custom tab, especially if you are using v12 or earlier.
You had originally stated that you have seen lags of up to 3 seconds in response to an adjustment change use v11. What I see with v21 is less than 1 second. I think it is less than one second exactly - it might even be 700ms. Measuring such a lag accurately is something I don't want to attempt, given that human reaction time to visual stimulus is about 250ms.
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photo by FA wrote
I don't understand, do we blame people now who purchases 5k iMac's? Who decides it is necessary or not?
The point of my comment was that if you buy a high performing iMac, it will be at least 5K.
I agree that CaptureOne's use of the machine's resources is not very efficient, I particularly notice that the GPU is very lightly used by Capture One.
There have been some comments that if one buys the maximum video RAM, then Capture One accelerates. I don't know how true that is. That is not something I can change on the machine that I own.
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Of course, I understand we all have different workflow so it is natural we do not encounter the same problems.
I have C1 V21, also the newest LR now. I do not use filters, my catalog has only the photos I edit, most of the time it is 200 to 500 photos. The lag and choppiness is there when I start editing, however after 50 photos or more the lag is much worse and the complete workflow slows down noticeably so any edit I make sometimes take up to one second which is unacceptable.
If I run C1 in Low resolution mode then everything works very fast. I suppose C1 does no do scaling well. I believe V21 is faster, however I "upgraded" my iMac so not sure if this is because of a faster processor.
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Eric, I didn’t mean you. And yes, you’d get 5K as it is a superior hardware in terms of CPU and GPU
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Bojan, I think that you may have discovered something.
The lag and choppiness is there when I start editing, however after 50 photos or more the lag is much worse and the complete workflow slows down noticeably so any edit I make sometimes take up to one second which is unacceptable.
The lag increases after you edit a large number of photos. That is new.
What kind of files are you editting?
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I edit Fuji RAF files, but the same happens with Nikon NEF and Canon CR2 files. LR does this as well, after 100 photos or more it slows down a bit, however it is more noticeable with C1 it has this initial lag.
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For me, its mostly Panasonic and Olympus. I've recently aquired a a Sony A7M3.
I tend to narrow it down to a 2-5 images, and then spend a lot of time editting those. That may be why I don't notice the same effect that you are seeing.
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It is happening with only one image loaded, just getting worse over time if there is many photos to edit. There is a lag you just used to it, I will create some short video later so you can see what I am talking about.
edit:
Here is the video:
You can clearly see the latency of the C1 when I move the slider fast to a new position, it lags noticeably while LR renders the preview almost instantly.
Also if I move the slider slowly you can clearly see how it changes the preview in steps, also how slow are the histograms, while again LR changes are seen instantly and without stepping, it is very fluid.
Maybe this looks like a minor thing, but it is not really as this amount of latency makes editing so much harder and slower, it feels like you edit with a remote control, very annoying. Also, comparing it with LR is just to show that it is not about which one is better but how the software is using the same hardware. Obviously this machine is fast enough for this type of work.
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