Batch paste adjustments and other issues
Hello,
I switched from C1 to LR back on version 3 that was 10 years ago. I am now trialing C1 9 and very impressed so far. However there are a few niggles which are really getting on my nerves, I don't know if it is something I am missing or indeed something which could use some work.
First of all: when I copy the adjustments of an image, I select several others and apply the adjustements only the first image selected will get the adjustments. I already found out (and it was quite difficult to find this online) that pressing ALT SHIFT or CTRL (I don't recall which one of the 3 and very much don't care) will apply the changes to all selected images.
But WHY do I have to press an aditional key that no one knows to do this? Why? If I select several images it is because I want changes to be applied to all. The same goes to deleting multiple images. What is the point of selecting multiple images?
Secondly: I noticed that variants count on catalogue folders as images. Perhaps others will have other opinion but I find that this make confusing to know how many images you really have and keeping syncronization with folders. Variants are just that, they should not appear on folder counting as images so we can know exactly how many images we have imported and be sure that all folder contents is in C1.
Finally, I know that alt-click temporarily resets an adjustment and that we can do and undo a permanent reset of one of the panels. But, why complicate? For temporary reset why not a tick box like on layers to enable / disable or a swithc button like on LR?
Apart from this I am very much enjoying C1the image quality is awsome and I am getting use to the work flow. However the pasting settings to multiple images really gets on my nerves...
I switched from C1 to LR back on version 3 that was 10 years ago. I am now trialing C1 9 and very impressed so far. However there are a few niggles which are really getting on my nerves, I don't know if it is something I am missing or indeed something which could use some work.
First of all: when I copy the adjustments of an image, I select several others and apply the adjustements only the first image selected will get the adjustments. I already found out (and it was quite difficult to find this online) that pressing ALT SHIFT or CTRL (I don't recall which one of the 3 and very much don't care) will apply the changes to all selected images.
But WHY do I have to press an aditional key that no one knows to do this? Why? If I select several images it is because I want changes to be applied to all. The same goes to deleting multiple images. What is the point of selecting multiple images?
Secondly: I noticed that variants count on catalogue folders as images. Perhaps others will have other opinion but I find that this make confusing to know how many images you really have and keeping syncronization with folders. Variants are just that, they should not appear on folder counting as images so we can know exactly how many images we have imported and be sure that all folder contents is in C1.
Finally, I know that alt-click temporarily resets an adjustment and that we can do and undo a permanent reset of one of the panels. But, why complicate? For temporary reset why not a tick box like on layers to enable / disable or a swithc button like on LR?
Apart from this I am very much enjoying C1the image quality is awsome and I am getting use to the work flow. However the pasting settings to multiple images really gets on my nerves...
0
-
To your first question.
The is an option to toggle between process the single variant in focus or all selected variants.
It is unusual but very powerful for fast editing once you are fully familiar with it.
To your second point.
You are right, opinions will vary. After several years of using C1 this matter is rarely something the gives me any concerns - but then I have adapted to it I suppose.
To your third point.
I much prefer the concept of seeing both the original (or perhaps previous rather than original) version of a file and my current variant side by side on screen. Or, if side by side in the browser, to left or right arrow between them. I rarely find that I am interested in always returning to the original file. When processing an original RAW file I don't have any great expectations that it will offer me anything more than some data points with which to start playing and experimenting.
I have other software that offer the "one button" see original option. I rarely us it having become used to the C1 options.
Of course, your needs may be different.
HTH.
Grant0 -
To the first point (toggle primary/all selected variants):
I also was confused in the beginning but soon I realized that it is pretty neat. You can leave it with "all variants" if you like then you're done. But sometimes I select a few in the browser, then hide everything except the viewer (i.e. the browser is invisible too) and go thru each selected image one by one for culling/rating. Then I want to have only one image affected so I set the toggle to "edit primary variant".
This is just one example, same applies to out processing or alike.
Third point:
It is not alt+click, it is alt + <mouse down> (for a given tool) to temporarily reverse and <mouse up> to restore. This is one click less than a checkbox for a given tool. Pretty neat too.
With a check-box you would have the possibilty to uncheck two or three tools, but I rarely want to have that. If so, I clone a variant and reset all tools in question, and then compare.
Cheers
BeO0 -
First of all thanks for replying so fast. [quote="SFA" wrote:
To your first question.
The is an option to toggle between process the single variant in focus or all selected variants.
It is unusual but very powerful for fast editing once you are fully familiar with it.
If we wanted to process a single variant or picture why have all selected? If I want to work with a single picture/variant I simply choose it. When we have several pictures selected common sense and usuability rules in computing dictates that everything is applied to all, that is the point of having selected all pictures.
I can vaguely see the advantage of being able in rare cases to apply changes just to the image in focus and then move on to other images. But you can easily acheive this in other more intuitive ways. This is not even documented! I would not be surprised if other users comming to C1 would be as much annoyed as I was with this.
Rule of the thumb: if you select multiple files it is because you want to do something to ALL of them. And if Phaseone wants to break 30 years of computing at least put some indication about that. I had to dig to C1 4 to understand after 2 hours why I was not being able to apply changes to all the images I was selecting.[quote="SFA" wrote:
To your second point.
You are right, opinions will vary. After several years of using C1 this matter is rarely something the gives me any concerns - but then I have adapted to it I suppose.
Yes we can adapt. But when we have lots of images it is easy to loose the track of them. It would not be very difficult on catalogues to indicate how many images were in folders and then between () the total number including variants. If I forgot to import something I would easily know that way.[quote="SFA" wrote:
To your third point.
I much prefer the concept of seeing both the original (or perhaps previous rather than original) version of a file and my current variant side by side on screen. Or, if side by side in the browser, to left or right arrow between them. I rarely find that I am interested in always returning to the original file. When processing an original RAW file I don't have any great expectations that it will offer me anything more than some data points with which to start playing and experimenting.
I have other software that offer the "one button" see original option. I rarely us it having become used to the C1 options.
Of course, your needs may be different.
HTH.
Grant
I was not suggesting to see the original file, we can achive that easily side-by-side as you do. I was talking about "switching off" individual adjustments, for example clarity. Currently you can do that by alt+click for a temporary reset. However wouldn't it be easier to have a check box to enable/disable like LR has?0 -
[quote="BeO" wrote:
To the first point (toggle primary/all selected variants):
I also was confused in the beginning but soon I realized that it is pretty neat. You can leave it with "all variants" if you like then you're done. But sometimes I select a few in the browser, then hide everything except the viewer (i.e. the browser is invisible too) and go thru each selected image one by one for culling/rating. Then I want to have only one image affected so I set the toggle to "edit primary variant".
This is just one example, same applies to out processing or alike.
It took me a while to get what you are saying but i got there 😄. I can understand that. Selecting several images and then working only on that selection one by one unless you specifically want to affect all.
But it is not the way to acheive this by breaking conventions on selecting and pasting and leaving new users in the dark because C1 works in a different way regarding handling files than any other software. To do what you do above the correct way would be to enable you to select some images and then work on them isolated with no selection whatsover unless you select them again. I use to acheive this in LR by "picking the images I want" and then see only my picks.
Because when you select something then when you paste is to paste to all, it makes no sense otherwise. At very least put somewhere on C1 that you need to shift click to acheive the very same thing that you do on every other program.[quote="BeO" wrote:
Third point:
It is not alt+click, it is alt + <mouse down> (for a given tool) to temporarily reverse and <mouse up> to restore. This is one click less than a checkbox for a given tool. Pretty neat too.
With a check-box you would have the possibilty to uncheck two or three tools, but I rarely want to have that. If so, I clone a variant and reset all tools in question, and then compare.
But you have to keep all down which takes boths hands, and that is distracting if you want check the differences. And you can't zoom, move and inspect while you do that. For that you have to reset, go to the top panel and undo which takes a lot of work, and it is completely impossible if you want to quickly switch between versions to see the change.
Temporarily reseting a panel is pretty neat. Doing it by ALT clicking is not, on my opinion. A check box takes a click and you can click back and forth as much as you want. As it is you have an extra step and to keep both hands tied to acheive it.
Cheers and thanks0 -
First point:
Do you know there is a toggle button at the top? (permanent)
Also, if you select 10 images, change something in the primary variant (focussed variant), then on each tool with shift and click on double-arrow you copy the settings to the other 9 images. Once get used to it is very quick.
Third point: Right, you can't temp. reset and then zoom in, and you need two hands.
I have adapted and zoom in first and then temp.reset. I really like it the way it is.
cheers,
BeO0 -
[quote="BeO" wrote:
First point:
Do you know there is a toggle button at the top? (permanent)
Also, if you select 10 images, change something in the primary variant (focussed variant), then on each tool with shift and click on double-arrow you copy the settings to the other 9 images. Once get used to it is very quick.
Third point: Right, you can't temp. reset and then zoom in, and you need two hands.
I have adapted and zoom in first and then temp.reset. I really like it the way it is.
cheers,
BeO
Yes I can adapt, and get used. The image quality is super b. I just have to swithc my brain off everytime I use C1 and turn it on again when I use some other software. This really gets on my nerves, it makes no sense: selected images = apply to all.
Wouldn't it be nicer to have C1 to work how all the rest of the world as worked in tha last 30 years?
But I do love the pictures I get from C1. If that is enough to overcome my annoyance on this is something that is still to be seen.
As for the third point you would get the same as it is but you would not have to press SHIFT. Matter of taste, I never liked mac's in great part for having to keep buttons pressed.
But thanks, it was great of you.0 -
You know there are a lot of things that other software has been doing for a long time that I just don't seem to be able to get used to. But if I had got used to it maybe I would not want to change.
The thing is that if you consider, say, business software, the entire GUI concept seems to be changed every 10 years or so - for no obvious reason at all, to an oldtimer.
To new tech users .... well, it's how it is. They start from now and can mostly ignore the past. Do they care what has been normal for the past 30 years?
Grant.0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
You know there are a lot of things that other software has been doing for a long time that I just don't seem to be able to get used to. But if I had got used to it maybe I would not want to change.
The thing is that if you consider, say, business software, the entire GUI concept seems to be changed every 10 years or so - for no obvious reason at all, to an oldtimer.
To new tech users .... well, it's how it is. They start from now and can mostly ignore the past. Do they care what has been normal for the past 30 years?
Grant.
I worked for 11 years in usability. If one of the developers on my teams ever did something like this on a project Ihe would not be working for long. It is really a no brainer. It is not about changing things, improving them, introducing something new. It is just really bad design. To start with: how does one guess that it has to press shift + paste to paste ajustsments to all selected images?
What is the point of selecting images then?
I used many years ago C1 3 and had some pretty expensive profiles for my camera back then, and switched to LR due to the interface and bugs of C1 4. I always missed C1 for LR never came even close to C1 on the quality of images. But LR is consistent and never got on my nerves over the interface as C1 did.
C1 9 is brilliant, the workflow is quite different than I am used, and I have to force myself to think different, like with changes history. That is not a problem, because it is just different and on C1 environment it makes sense. But this... everytime I have to paste settings to several images and that fails because I haven't pressed shift I just wish to have a small talk with however designed this. At very least if they were to do something very different and dumb they could have made that clear instead of making us guess.
I lost my time searching online to understand how to paste to several images, I had to go down to C1 4 to read about it and lost even more time coming here to talk about it. How many people simple ditch C1 for LR on account of basic things like this?0 -
hhm, I am not saying that you're totally wrong, just a few other thoughts:
- I find it refreshing working with a "new to me" interface which is quite different than all the other (meanwhile boring) interfaces.
- It is not always guessing how the buttons work, if you look at the tool tips.
- I've seen in this forum some reasons for abandoning C1 (or at least members saying so), often performance, too much RAM requirements, also colours (e.g. a Canon model before C1 provided a better icc profile), rants about colour passport issues, DAM capabilities. I've not noticed GUI pecularities as a major reason.
- I am with C1 mainly for its image quality and the tools.
- I see a lot of Aperture and LR users praising C1s IQ too, and users switching from LR to C1. I am not in a LR forum and don't know how many users abandon C1 for LR though.
cheers
BeO0 -
I agree that some useful information is not always easy to find in the documentation - although I found the best way to become familiar with what is available was to check the icons by hovering over them and to scan the options in the menus to discover things of interest.
In general this is true for most software that has any degree of complexity. In my opinion.
That said, personally I find that some approaches work for me and others just don't.
In case others stumble over this thread seeking seeking the same information I'll post here a link the the V9 version page that describes the functionality
http://help.phaseone.com/en/CO9/Optimiz ... aspx#item7
I find there are often times when, in general, I wish to apply the same edits to a number of images that I have spent time selecting but also have a need to make single image specific adjustments as I work with them. De-selecting would be a pain. They could be saved as an album temporarily but that is a bit of an unnecessary step too.
The option to keep the selected set and simply decide whether to apply edits to all of them or individual variants as one works is a great solution. In my opinion.
I would guess that it originated in a request from a working Pro.
Going slightly off topic I would be interested in your opinion about the user interface for MS Office 365 if you are familiar with it. I'm a light user of what it offers. Although I have a reasonable feel (I think) for the sort of fundamental features that the applications offer the latest iterations seem to have hidden things away under some obscure grouping tabs which may or may not be available. I was a great fan of Office 97 but in terms of getting to features I needed it seemed far more attuned with my brain, such as that is, than anything they have done since.
Maybe it's just me though.
Grant0 -
Dear SFA and BeO,
Thanks for the replies and the patience you have. I don't mind a new interface or a new way to do things. Like I said using variants to build a change history instead of the history list in LR, is a different approach to the problem which has its merits and makes sense. It took sometime to get used, and to think this way, but it was no problem at all.
But the paste issue is something different. It is not a different way to do things, it is just a badly implemented feature even more because there is no indication at all, not even a tooltip, that it works that way. You could have, for example, two entries on the drop down menu "apply" and "apply to all" which would sort this issue.
The other two issues were mostly suggestions, not really a big problem like the above.
As for office 365 I have to say I did not see it very well. I retired from IT 3 years ago and I have now a farm. I have a much more relaxing life now 😄.
Regards0 -
[quote="darker71" wrote:
I retired from IT 3 years ago and I have now a farm. I have a much more relaxing life now 😄.
Regards
No doubts - not even for a second! 😊 Enjoy! 😊
BeO0
Post is closed for comments.
Comments
12 comments