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M8 jpg compared with C1V4 default

NN297888UL
With the new M8 firmware (1.12) I thought I would start to record both the DNG and the JPG data, and use the JPG to set the base line for color accuracy when processing the DNG.

I therefore compared the M8 JPG with that produced by C1V4 ( and C1Pro) using the generic UV-IF profile.

I was amazed to see how different the images were - I am not saying one was more accurate or pleasing - simply that they were different.

Since Phase One and Leica are in partnership on Raw Conversions am I being naive to expect that the color produced should be 'the same'?

Is it possible for PhaseOne (or anyone else) to produce a Leica profile which matches the M8 in-camera jpg conversion?

David
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Comments

6 comments

Date Votes
  • Paul Steunebrink
    Capture One is Leica's raw converter of choice for the M8. This does not imply that the M8's internal image processing (to JPEG) is also from Phase One. I think internal processing for the M8 is made by another party and part of the firmware. Note that image processing in the camera has much limited resources in terms processing power compared to our modern personal computers. Another reason not to expect the same results.

    The only inside and outside camera processing that are similar (I am aware of) is Canon with its Raw Image Task, hidden in their software suite. Even their DPP gives a different result.

    Enjoy your M8 and enjoy it even more with CO4!
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  • NN297888UL
    Paul,

    Thank-you for your comment, I would like, if I may, to draw your attention to:

    http://kammagamma.com/articles/m8-colors.php

    which (a) shows that C1LE conversion of M8 images is just as different as Adobe and Aperture attempts - and not at all close to the M8 jog.
    and (b) contains a plea for a C1 profile which gives the same results as Leica's in camera conversion

    surely Leicas conversion should be regarded as the 'target' - or at the very least an alternative to C1's frankly poor profiles - magenta turning blues to purple and 'yellow greens'.

    Thank-you

    David
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  • Jonathan Gilbert
    This is an interesting article for sure, and ultimately color comes down to a matter of taste, however I would like to point out a couple things.

    First is that Leica decided to partner with us to use Capture One LE as an OEM solution because they felt that our software was a superior solution to what they could offer in terms of raw processing.

    Second is regarding the test as Kammagamma.com... Maybe its my stubborn support of my company, or perhaps its that I'm still set in my ways from being a digital tech and that I know a thing or two about color, but I see one large glaring issue with the test. That is that the camera's internal color analysis is used when determining the color rendition of the image. I would have liked to see each programs color rendition based on a standard balance to a grey card, that way one can judge green based on its actual color, and so on and so forth. Remember that color profiles are based upon a comparison between known values and the resulting values when properly balanced and processed.
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  • NN297888UL
    Jon,

    Thank-you for your comments - may I make a number of points:

    1. With my (extreme) test images (Blue Iris, Acid Green and Yellow shrubs, and Red/Orange Propane Gas Canister) I find that manipulating the color temp. does not get me an M8 jpg. With the LR 8-point HSL adjuster and I can get close to M8, with adjustments in nearly all 8 sectors for H S and L! C1's Color Balance tool as I see it is a single point tool.
    2.The KG analysis (which is based on ColorChecker 24, and not the M8) shows the variation in color across the spectrum for the main raw processors, and shows several high DeltaC between M8 and C1 jpg.
    3. Th KG comparisons show the effect of the various raw processors (on some test images), and how much variation there is between the main players.
    4. I am not suggesting that any one process (M8, LR, C1 or whatever) is THE correct one, what I am seeking is a starting point from which to express my 'taste/purpose. For me an additional M8 profile would provide that option.
    5. Comparisons, with the Iris,the shrub and the Gas, suggested to me that the M8 gave the best subjective approximation.

    I have no wish to buy LR - I am looking for a C1Profile (M8colorMatch) and/or better color balancing tools (allowing HSL manipulation of 8 color points)so that I can find my own settings.

    Thank-you for you time

    David Huxtable
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    HI David,
    Thanks for your replies. Interesting reading. I was already familiar with the M8 colors article on the KammaGamma site, thank you. However, discussion between Jon and you is already beyond my level is skill and knowledge, so I have to listen quietly for a change 😊
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  • Edwin121
    Jon made some good points that were all responded to very eloquently by David. I've written about this in the leica User Forum and folks agree that they love C1 but would like the colors to more closely match, when they want them, the M8 JPEG colors.

    How about it Phase One? Can you come up with one additional profile for the Leica ((M8colorMatch UV IR) for us?

    Ed
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