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Capture One 9 Demo Questions

CaptureMann
Hello,
I have two days left on my 30 day demo (wish it were 60 days since I had such trouble getting my library ported).
I'm trying to decide whether or not to purchase Capture One Pro.

There are quite a few nice features about the software, but the Digital Asset Manager seems a bit primitive in its feature set. This is an important component for me. My library is currently around 35,000 photos
I particularly like the focus feature where it shows you which part of the photo is in sharp focus.

I have some questions if anyone can answer them:

1) Is it possible to show all the photos in a given folder AND all of its sub folders?
I can't seem to get it to do this.

2) Is it possible to search your entire library for all photos with a given keyword?

3) Is it possible to search your entire library for all photos taken a given lens?

4) When I import folders after my original import, they go in a different section in the folders tab. This is because my user name is capitalized in one instance and not in the other and Capture One is case sensitive. (This is controlled by Mac OS, not me). Anyone know a workaround for this? It means I wind up with two separate folder hierarchies in the Folders tab that are the same - one above the other. Very annoying.

If I could work out the DAM issues, I would probably buy the software.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can share.
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Comments

16 comments

Date Votes
  • Jim_DK
    Hi CaptureMann,

    1. No, but painfully aware this is needed and much requested.
    2. Yes - select the ALL IMAGES collection and use the filters panel to find and select the keyword you want.
    3. Yes - same as above - but you might need to append the filters list. Click on the "..." action menu in the corner of the filters and then "Show/Hide Filters" to see filters available. Lens model (from Exif) is available here.
    4. Need more detail for this one, but if its a bug I suggest for this one contact support for clarification.
    http://support.phaseone.com

    Best
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  • CaptureMann
    Hi James,

    Thanks so much for your reply.
    I'm not sure if my demo expired yesterday or today. If it's today, I'll definitely try out your suggestions.

    I did engage support on the multiple directories issue. Here's what I wrote to them:
    "... the pathname for the photo's I imported from the LightRoom catalog and the photo's I import directly into Capture One have different pathnames - even though they're in the same Finder directories. I see the problem is that in one case Show Info shows my user name capitalized and in another it's not. Do you know how to fix this? This isn't something I can modify - it's set by the Mac OS. Thank you."

    But they don't seem to think its a bug - or even an issue. Their reply was:
    "As for the Path issue, I suspect the difference is that Capture One is using the imported lightroom path for the older images and using the native path for the newly imported... To be certain I'd need to see examples, but ultimately as long as the images show in the same folder within the folders section of the library there is no real issue."

    To me, this is a huge issue. It makes it much harder to find a specific photo and the folder hierarchy takes up TWICE as much precious screen space.

    Is there any timeframe for DAM improvements?

    And, I had another issue yesterday when I shut off the wireless radio on my machine for a few hours while working in Capture One. (I really like the focus feature that shows areas of sharp focus). All of a sudden, each folder I clicked in was "offline" - even though they're all on the local hard drive. So I had to right click on the folder name and choose "Locate..." Since you can't select multiple folders, I had to do this one by one - for EVERY folder I wanted to access.

    Yikes.
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  • Eric Nepean
    Note carefully the speed of searching your entire library. For me, this was initially quite fast with ony a few thousand images - but with my entire library is so slow that I have decided the SW is unusable for DAM.
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  • CaptureMann
    Yes, I'm coming to that same conclusion about the utility of the DAM.
    Pity - because it has some nice features.

    What is your workflow, then?
    Do you use some other DAM and then only use Capture One for RAW conversion?
    Do you go right from Capture One to printer (or to JPEG and then print lab)?
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  • BobRockefeller
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
    Note carefully the speed of searching your entire library. For me, this was initially quite fast with ony a few thousand images - but with my entire library is so slow that I have decided the SW is unusable for DAM.


    Eric,

    At what point did it seem that CO began to bog down? 5,000 images? 10,000? More?

    I'm getting started and have only moved about 2,000 images over, so it's still fast. But I wonder if I'm on a dead end road?
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  • Eric Nepean
    [quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
    Note carefully the speed of searching your entire library. For me, this was initially quite fast with ony a few thousand images - but with my entire library is so slow that I have decided the SW is unusable for DAM.


    Eric,

    At what point did it seem that CO began to bog down? 5,000 images? 10,000? More?

    I'm getting started and have only moved about 2,000 images over, so it's still fast. But I wonder if I'm on a dead end road?


    At 2000 images I find the browsing and filter performance quite acceptable. At 4000 images its slows down slightly but still good. At 9000 images it was getting noticeably slow but still usable. At 17000 images (final size) it takes 1 minute to respond to each key click or mouse click when I am working in the "all images" mode.

    It might also be related to my heavy use of hierarchical keywords. I've been testing it on 3 different Macs which seem to have similar performance. But on one computer, I did something that caused 12000 images to loose all their keywords - and suddenly the speed is better. Still trying to nail down the details on that.
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  • BeO
    Top Commenter
    [quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:

    I'm getting started and have only moved about 2,000 images over, so it's still fast. But I wonder if I'm on a dead end road?


    Hi Bob,

    as you might know you can import the same images over and over, something one can complain about, but hey, it gives you the possibiliy to easily duplicate, quadruplicate etc. your images and make a torture test with importing. If successful, you can answer this question for yourself which makes a lot of sense as (1) not every computer has the same performance and (2) the perceived performance and what is still usable is very subjective. I think keywords can also be added during import, should this matter as it seems..

    Just my thoughts...

    Cheers
    BeO
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  • harald_walker
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
    At 17000 images (final size) it takes 1 minute to respond to each key click or mouse click when I am working in the "all images" mode.

    My catalogs are between 10K and 40K if images. As long as I use sub-selections (albums, groups) etc. with a max. of several thousand images it is possible to work with it. Of course I expect more from a 'professional' software like this.

    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:

    It might also be related to my heavy use of hierarchical keywords. ... , I did something that caused 12000 images to loose all their keywords - and suddenly the speed is better. Still trying to nail down the details on that.


    I don't dare to touch the new keyword library features with my large catalogs as many actions will leave the application unresponsive for many minutes. How they manage keywords is a serious problem. It was already bad in version 8 and got worse in version 9. Don't understand how this made it through QA testing and why it takes so long to implement a better performing solution. Version 9 brought some nice new keyword management features but they are unusable in large catalogs.

    Personally I can work around these DAM issues and limitations for a while and still hope to see some improvements soon. But am certainly not a 'satisfied customer'.
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  • Eric Nepean
    [quote="harald_walker" wrote:

    .........
    I don't dare to touch the new keyword library features with my large catalogs as many actions will leave the application unresponsive for many minutes. How they manage keywords is a serious problem. It was already bad in version 8 and got worse in version 9. Don't understand how this made it through QA testing and why it takes so long to implement a better performing solution. Version 9 brought some nice new keyword management features but they are unusable in large catalogs.

    Personally I can work around these DAM issues and limitations for a while and still hope to see some improvements soon. But am certainly not a 'satisfied customer'.


    Harald, thanks for the useful comment. I am also a dissatisfied customer.

    If I understand correctly from your previous posts, for the the purposes of running COP you recently purchased a new top of the line iMac retina 17,1 5K quad core i7. It must be quite irritating that such an expensive machine cannot handle this SW well. I too was considering purchasing a similar machine, but with the Canadian dollar low it is not a very attractive proposition, and I see that it would not help me anyway.

    To wait it out and work around was my mind set last June/July, but no longer. I've used COP7 and COP8, trialed COP9, seen the reports in this forum. The performance trend is heading in the wrong direction, and there seems to be no guide regarding what is suitable HW for a given size catalog or task.

    I've effectively lost a year in low productivity limbo, sorting out SW rather than images. I am not buying more SW that doesn't really work well when I trial it. One oversight on my part is that for a DAM tool, I have come to realize that it is key to trial it with your full library, not a subset. If I had done that, I would have saved my self considerable money, and what is more important, a lot of time.

    In another thread I received an interesting comment from an experienced COP user "I only use COP in sessions mode, I use another DAM SW to interface with COP Sessions". This is where I am heading.
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  • harald_walker
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:

    If I understand correctly from your previous posts, for the the purposes of running COP you recently purchased a new top of the line iMac retina 17,1 5K quad core i7.


    Not me and I would never buy such a Mac. I'd buy a Mac Pro if I wanted a desktop computer again.
    As far as I can tell, the problem of those iMacs is the 5K retina display. Without the 5K that machine should fly.

    At the moment I am waiting for new MacBook Pro models to be released by Apple.

    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:

    In another thread I received an interesting comment from an experienced COP user "I only use COP in sessions mode, I use another DAM SW to interface with COP Sessions". This is where I am heading.


    Yes, I saw that comment as well. Don't think it is an option for me.
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  • CaptureMann
    I've decided NOT to purchase Capture One Pro 9 due to 1) my experience with the demo and 2) the comments in this forum and on this thread.

    But we're running out of options since Apple took Aperture away.
    I am now maintaining two libraries - Lightroom on the notebook and legacy Aperture on the desktop.
    But this is hardly sustainable with >35k images.
    I was hoping to replace both of these with Capture One, but it's not there yet.

    I was also a bit troubled with a comment support made to me - essentially saying that the problem I was having didn't matter and thus wasn't a problem.

    But think the interface is better than Lightroom - almost a cross between LR and Aperture.
    If the DAM were faster and more full featured, together with the RAW converter, Phase One could own the space.

    Basic things like keyword handling, viewing photos within sub folders, image search / filter options, etc. are must-haves.
    If these features were added, I would definitely consider it again.
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  • BobRockefeller
    [quote="CaptureMann" wrote:
    I've decided NOT to purchase Capture One Pro 9 due to 1) my experience with the demo and 2) the comments in this forum and on this thread.


    What is your photo workflow instead? Other good options folks should be considering? Exposure X looks interesting but underpowered for adjustments.
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  • CaptureMann
    Currently, it's all Adobe. Lightroom as a DAM, and Photoshop as a processor.
    I also maintain an Aperture library so I can put photos on ios devices.

    I import images into both LR and Aperture. Then I use Photoshop on those images worth sharing or printing.
    Lighroom has a good slide show feature, good RAW converter, lens corrections, etc.
    Aperture has a much better User Interface and many clever features such as showing all focus points in the camera and highlighting the one used in the photo. Aperture's collections feature is way better than Adobe's.
    For instance, you can find all RAW photos in portrait orientation taken in the month of May (any year) with a given camera and lens, etc. LR can't find any month - only a date range. Nor can it search on orientation.
    No one can do user interface like Apple.

    The Capture One user interface has many nice features. And I particularly like the focus feature..
    But I can't maintain three libraries. Two is already a pain on those days or trip when I take hundreds of photos. 😕
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  • BobRockefeller
    [quote="CaptureMann" wrote:
    Currently, it's all Adobe. Lightroom as a DAM, and Photoshop as a processor.
    I also maintain an Aperture library so I can put photos on ios devices.


    With Lightroom Mobile you can sync from Lightroom to iOS devices. Does it work OK for you?

    And I agree about Aperture. Its DAM features are head-and-shoulders above Lightroom and Capture One. It was a sad loss. I still haven't recovered because I don't really like Lightroom (although I move to it from Aperture) and I can't quite get everything IO want out of CO9. ☚ī¸
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  • CaptureMann
    Misery loves company. 😕

    Capture One COULD be that solution - if Phase One would listen to the customer base...
    Aperture left such a huge whole that has not been filled by Adobe.

    Phase One - are you listening???
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  • SFA
    I think it is fairly safe to say that P1 are listening.

    However they are a somewhat smaller company than Apple or Adobe and of course have their core hardware products to resource as well.

    How bit is the apparent hole left by Aperture? As an non-Apple person I have no idea how many people used it, especially in the business market.

    Presumably the vast Adobe empire does not need to try to fill the hole, in their opinion. Either that or they have looked at it and decided it is a money pit rather than a gold mine.

    Or maybe they are busily developing something with a few hundred programmers re-cycling coding concepts form their existing products?

    Both Apple and Adobe may have looked at the rise of mobile devices and the rapid fall in sales of free standing cameras and decided that things should be done differently (in the case of Apple supporting their primary product ranges) or not - in the case of Adobe who, reportedly, are doing very nicely with existing "industry standard" products and a subscription SaaS policy.

    Against that sort of probably decision making ...

    What monetary value would you put on the opportunity?

    How much should the enhanced product sell for?

    These questions must be important for all of the RAW converter and editor or plug-in developers not just P1.



    Grant
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