New to C1 - first experience
I am new to the forum - and to C1 !
I've been playing with the Sony version of C1 as all my equipment is Minolta and Sony for about a month now. I like the image processing so much that I've decided not to import my whole Aperture Library in one shot (180,000 full frame RAW files !) but to create seperate Catalogues for my favorite Aperture Projects - and not by importing them into C1 but by importing the original RAW files by reference that I have on external drives. The result is that I have a lot of work ahead of me for this winter or rainy days - BUT, I've discovered pictures that I had rated poorly because I couldn't get the sort of image I wanted in Aperture and which have come out quite beautiful in C1...
The drawback is that I like Aperture's filing system so much - as well as the slide presentation with iTunes sound capability - that I FIND MYSELF REIMPORTING C1 generated JPGS into Aperture !! So I guess that when Apple moves away from Yosemite, I won't upgrade ! At least until the day Capture One is at par with Apertures filing system. Is that likely ? I hope so !
Question for Aperture users out there; How have you managed the filing and keyword isues you have faced ?
I've been playing with the Sony version of C1 as all my equipment is Minolta and Sony for about a month now. I like the image processing so much that I've decided not to import my whole Aperture Library in one shot (180,000 full frame RAW files !) but to create seperate Catalogues for my favorite Aperture Projects - and not by importing them into C1 but by importing the original RAW files by reference that I have on external drives. The result is that I have a lot of work ahead of me for this winter or rainy days - BUT, I've discovered pictures that I had rated poorly because I couldn't get the sort of image I wanted in Aperture and which have come out quite beautiful in C1...
The drawback is that I like Aperture's filing system so much - as well as the slide presentation with iTunes sound capability - that I FIND MYSELF REIMPORTING C1 generated JPGS into Aperture !! So I guess that when Apple moves away from Yosemite, I won't upgrade ! At least until the day Capture One is at par with Apertures filing system. Is that likely ? I hope so !
Question for Aperture users out there; How have you managed the filing and keyword isues you have faced ?
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Hello Marc,
I'm new to C1 as well and also a former Aperture user.
I've done quite the same as you have done.
I created a folder structure, which is a copy of the library / projects / albums structure I had in Aperture, on a network drive.
Next step was that I imported the Aperture library in C1.
I then created an identical folder structure in C1 (under 'Folders') and drag and dropped the pictures from the 'User collections' to the 'Folders' so that C1 could keep track of the location of the pictures.
Keywords I added and edits I did in Aperture where so preserved in C1.
After I moved all pictures, I deleted the Aperture library and started editing in C1.
Best regards,
emeu10 -
[quote="Marc PK" wrote:
Question for Aperture users out there; How have you managed the filing and keyword isues you have faced ?
What exactly are you missing in terms of the "filing" of images? C1 is the only software out there which has "managed" as well as "referenced" filing, just like Aperture. It seems to be relatively flexible and not so much hardwired (in every aspect) to the Finders' folder structure like Lightroom is. So I think it is quite capable and I actually had this on the Plus-Side when I was evaluating LR and C1 side-by-side.
Re. the keywords so far I just started to more or less ignore them alltogether. Keywording in C1 is a complete joke and not worth to put much effort into. It is miles away from LR and Aperture. I was taking a hard look at how I used Keywords in Aperture over the years and found that I put much more time into assigning them than I actually saved later on by finding and filtering images through them. So I decided to not care anymore and just wait until Phase One improves this part of the package some day.0 -
Concerning filing, I have hundreds of smart folders based on keywords. I sort my shots into several main categories (family, friends, events and travel). The travel category is then broken down by continent, country, towns, monuments and all are geotaged and dated; and these shots constitute the bulk of my library (180,000), which I then share during formal presentations using iTunes as the music/vocal explanation source... 0 -
[quote="Marc PK" wrote:
Concerning filing, I have hundreds of smart folders based on keywords. I sort my shots into several main categories (family, friends, events and travel). The travel category is then broken down by continent, country, towns, monuments and all are geotaged and dated; and these shots constitute the bulk of my library (180,000), which I then share during formal presentations using iTunes as the music/vocal explanation source...
Understood. C1 is far away from this kind of sophistication that Aperture offered for years, especially with all the OS X media integration like iTunes, iWork etc.
If you really want to make it work somehow, I would suggest to look into the Filters section of the Library Tool Tab. C1's smart albums are right now no substitute for Apertures', for various reasons. The Filters can help here a little bit and actually function as some sort of Metadata browser, where you can quickly narrow down your view based on setting a filter at some IPTC or other Metadata fields. So if you have populated the IPTC fields "Location" or "Place", you might be able to filter down your travel category the same way like in Aperture. Of course then you don't have any integration into iTunes. If that is really important to you, I would seriously suggest to maybe keep Aperture around for as long as possible and wait for the new "Photos" to improve in functionality. Who knows what the future holds, maybe C1 and LR will be able to link themselves to the Photos library.0 -
Keywording: I'm also used to the way in which Aperture allows you to (insists that you) have a 'bank' (or 'pool', or superset) of keywords that are totally independent of any image(s).
Is there any way that C1 can do this… from what I've seen, you build Keyword lists image by image. Am I missing something, please?0 -
[quote="Mark Sealey" wrote:
Is there any way that C1 can do this… from what I've seen, you build Keyword lists image by image. Am I missing something, please?
No. It's not there and you are missing nothing.
Keywords in C1 are not even stored in the SQL database, they are stored in a freakin' plist-File. That is all you need to know about the state of keywording in C1 compared to other tools out there.
My suggestion would be for everybody to flood Phase Ones Support Mail-System (via their website) with feature requests re. Keywords. They seem to be pretty open for user feedback in general. I think they already know that they have a task on hand here, just don't know where to start I guess.0 -
So how can I add a new keyword without attaching it to an image first? 0 -
[quote="Mark Sealey" wrote:
So how can I add a new keyword without attaching it to an image first?
Go to the Filters tool on the Library tool tab, Keywords filter. Click on the + sign and enter the keyword.0 -
Thanks, Paul!
And adding a keyword there does not immediately apply it to any image, does it?0 -
[quote="Mark Sealey" wrote:
...
And adding a keyword there does not immediately apply it to any image, does it?
That is correct.0 -
Thanks, Paul; that's extremely helpful! 0 -
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
[quote="Mark Sealey" wrote:
So how can I add a new keyword without attaching it to an image first?
Go to the Filters tool on the Library tool tab, Keywords filter. Click on the + sign and enter the keyword.
If you have a lot of Aperture keywords, you may want to use the alternative to manually entering them into the keywords filter. I had just over 500 keywords in Aperture, here is how I have done it:
(Note that if you have hierarchical keywords in Aperture, there are a few extra steps which I cover at the end)
1) Check that your Aperture keywords are all as you want them in COP, if not now is the time to fix any spelling errors or make other changes
2) Export your list of keywords from Aperture, this will go into a text file as a simple list, one keyword per row
3) Edit the text file so that each keyword is shown like this: <string>Canada Rockies</string> (I used Excel to automatically add the strings before and after each keyword, then saved the result as a .txt file again)
4) If you don't have a keyword already in the COP keyword filter, enter one now. Quit COP8.
5) Using finder, go to the folder ~/Library/Preferences (use the the "Go To Folder.." menu, and press the Option key so that "Library" becomes visible)
*** Make a backup copy of com.phaseone.captureone8.plist on your desktop
6) Open "com.phaseone.captureone8.plist" with a text editor - I used "TextWrangler" which is free.
In the same tool, open the keywords .txt file which has been edited in step 3)
7) Search for the string "content_keywords" and identify the keywords section of the plist file.
The keyword section starts with these two lines:
<key>content_keywords</key>
<array>
And ends with this line:
</array>
8 ) Delete any rows with unwanted keywords, for example if you have created a dummy keyword
9) Create enough blank rows for the new keywords from Aperture
10) Copy the rows with the Aperture keywords to the blank section. I think you must observe the indenting, I used the TextWrangler Function "Paste column". Delete any blank rows caused by this work
NOTE!!: Text Wrangler seems unable to handle the character "&". If you have any keywords with "&" in them, these must not be copied into the PLIST with Textwrangler. I entered these manually in COP8
11) Save the "com.phaseone.captureone8.plist" file.
12) Now open "Terminal" and execute the command "killall cfprefsd" which restarts the SW process that cached the plist files.
You may now start COP8 and should find all your Aperture Keywords in the Filter tool.
If you have hierarchical keywords in Aperture (as I did) and you want to transfer that keyword hierarchy to COP8, then you must in Aperture convert each keyword to a form understood by COP8 as a hierarchy. But when you do that, your Aperture Smart Folders will break. But COP8 does not import Aperture Smart folders anyway. SO my procedure was:
1) Copy all the versions in each Aperture Smart Folder to an Aperture album (which COP8 will import) Delete all the Aperture smart albums
2) Convert each keyword to a form understood by COP8 as a hierarchy - for example, the keyword "Canada Rockies" under the top level of "Locations" becomes "Locations | Canada Rockies", and then you may also have "Locations | Canada Rockies | Jasper"
3) Now proceed as above; in the list of Aperture exported keywords you will find each level is indented, which now has to be un-indented. I did this as a drag operation in Excel.0 -
Eric,
How kind of you to take the time and trouble to set out these steps; it's very much appreciated.
I shall try just what you suggest.
I'll give it a try in BBEdit and Numbers, if necessary…
A crucial step would seem to be your 12 (BTW, 'SW'???); how certain are you that it works; I've read somewhere that I also have to restart immediately to defeat cacheing???
To change the PLIST file myself (I note your advice about keeping a backup) is 100% secure and without risk, is it?
I do have multiple hierarchies; in fact all my Aperture keywords are in one of the three Parents, 'Time', 'Manner', 'Place'!
And, once these are in the Filter section of C1 (8.3) they're all averrable to all images, are they?
I guess my final question is this: presumably you do an Import from Aperture Library after setting up these keywords; and they're all available in C1, and applied exactly as they were in Aperture - hierarchies too?
Thanks again! 😊 😊 😊0 -
[quote="Mark Sealey" wrote:
Eric,
How kind of you to take the time and trouble to set out these steps; it's very much appreciated.
I shall try just what you suggest.
I'll give it a try in BBEdit and Numbers, if necessary…
A crucial step would seem to be your 12 (BTW, 'SW'???); how certain are you that it works; I've read somewhere that I also have to restart immediately to defeat cacheing???
In researching this I read of several different ways of doing this, one of them was to restart immediately, but at the end of the day I tried this one and it worked every time, I never had to restart to make this work. Here is the link.
To change the PLIST file myself (I note your advice about keeping a backup) is 100% secure and without risk, is it?
I did not have anything go wrong (in the sense that COP8 rejected the plist). My usual practice (and advice in this case) is to backup the original version of any edited or deleted file somewhere else. If something does go wrong, you can always copy the backup version of the PLIST back to the Preferences folder (which I did once after a really bad editing flub - worked fine). I also run Time Machine, in extremis I can always go back to yesterday (but I rarely have to). The very worst that could happen is that you might have to reinstall COP8, even then you wouldn't have to delete the catalogs.I do have multiple hierarchies; in fact all my Aperture keywords are in one of the three Parents, 'Time', 'Manner', 'Place'!
I have "Location", "Topic", "Trip", "Event", "Style" and "People"And, once these are in the Filter section of C1 (8.3) they're all available to all images, are they?
I'm using C1 8.3 and OSX 10.9.5, I found that the keywords imported in this way were available in all catalogs and could be assigned to any image.
CAVEAT: when COP8 has hierarchical global keywords (as we are just discussing ) and you assign them to images, the filter tool shows TWO hierarchies. One hierarchy is complete (all keywords) but has a count of zero images. This is the set global keywords, the ones we are discussing here. The second hierarchy is partially populated, only the keywords which are assigned to local images are present (and the count is not zero). If you assign one of the global keywords to a local image, by typing or by drag and drop, the new image count and new local keyword shows up in the local keyword hierarchy, not the global hierarchy. (But COP8 doesn't tell you which keyword tree is global and which is local, you have to realize that the big one with zero images is the global one) This was very confusing to me at first, then I experimented in a different user account and found that it works that way even if you never import from Aperture. I can imagine better ways of doing this, but that's just the way COP8 works right now.I guess my final question is this: presumably you do an Import from Aperture Library after setting up these keywords; and they're all available in C1, and applied exactly as they were in Aperture - hierarchies too?
I found that this works whether you have imported your Aperture LIbrary first or or afterwards. (You will not see the keywords if you have zero images in the catalog, I think)
I did not change all 500+ keywords in my first attempt, I started with a small group to see how it would go. When I go that right, I went to a bigger group. When I got confused about the duplicated keyword hierarchies, and when I had problems with the "&" characters, I backed out some or all of the changes. Once I had that figured out, I imported all 500 keywords in one go.
I would recommend that anyone else follow a similar step by step process.Thanks again! 😊 😊 😊
You are quite welcome, Mark. Best of luck.0 -
Eric,
Once again - that's extremely helpful.
Much appreciated 😊
Shall try asap.
Good luck!0 -
Eric,
If I may, please:
how do I delete a(n others unassigned) keyword from the global hierarchy in filters?0 -
[quote="Mark Sealey" wrote:
Eric,
If I may, please:
how do I delete a(n others unassigned) keyword from the global hierarchy in filters?
Hi Mark There was an other post somewhere in this forum a few weeks ago (Paul Steunebrink possibly) where it was stated that you can't delete any global keyword from the filter (hierarchical or otherwise) using the COP user interface.
The only way that I know how to do it is to shut down COP, open the PLIST file with an editor, find the unwanted keyword, delete that line, save the file, and then use "killall cfprefsd" to force a restart of the preferences caching.
If you are doing it as part of a complete import from Aperture, then you can of course remove unwanted keywords and then add new ones in the same edit.
For example, I started one edit with the following in the plist:
<key>content_keywords</key>
<array>
<string>KWtest1</string>
</array>
Of course I had no interest in using that particular global keyword, I just wanted to see what global keywords did, and looked like in a a plist file
Then I edited that section of the plist file to look like this; removing the unwanted keyword and adding wanted ones:
<key>content_keywords</key>
<array>
<string>Aerial | Canada East</string>
<string>Aerial | Canada Prairies</string>
<string>Aerial | Canada Rockies</string>
<string>Aerial | Canadian North</string>
<string>Aerial | Clouds</string>
<string>Aerial | Great Lakes</string>
<string>Aerial | Japan</string>
<string>Aerial | Kamchatka</string>
<string>Aerial | Northern Europe</string>
<string>Aerial | US West</string>
</array>
Note how I have kept the same indent for the replaced material as the original material, and that I haven't left a blank line where I deleted the unwanted keyword.
This section is up around line 1300 somewhere, but quite easy to find when I searched for "KWtest1" or later "Aerial | Canada East"
Feel free to ask any other questions if you get stuck. And remember to make a backup copy each time before you edit.0 -
Eric,
I tried what you kindly guided me through; it seemed to work perfectly!
Not being able to delete a keyword from the global list seems like a significant omission.
I can certainly edit the PLIST file as I need to - but I'm sure that's not how a really mature program would do it!
Thanks again "=)0
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