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Aperture to C1 Round Trip Best Practice?

BobRockefeller
Is there a "best practice" to round trip an image from Aperture to Capture One Pro?

I'd like to do all my organizing and metadata entry in Aperture, but no final raw conversion of image adjustments.

What has been working for folks that takes an image from the Aperture library, sends the raw version over to C1 (the Catapult plug-in?), returns the image from C1 to Aperture as a TIFF (or maybe JPEG), but then allows a future round trip to C1, carrying the previous C1 adjustments with it?

How?
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Comments

17 comments

Date Votes
  • Christian Gruner
    Best practice is individual, so let's rephrase it to "good practice" 😉

    There's a webinar coming up on this subject. Sign-up here: http://bit.ly/1k1Zqti
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  • BobRockefeller
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    Best practice is individual, so let's rephrase it to "good practice" 😉

    There's a webinar coming up on this subject. Sign-up here: http://bit.ly/1k1Zqti


    I'm already signed up. Will it cover round trip from Aperture? I didn't see that on the agenda.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I'd be surprised if the webinar covered round tripping as well, but I guess we will see.

    So far as your workflow question goes, if it helps, what I do is:

    1. Import (referenced) images into an Aperture library.
    2. Rate/cull and add metadata.
    3. Expand hierarchical keywords (there are scripts for this - I'm not clever enough to write one myself).
    4. Send selected images to C1 7 for adjustment.
    5. Reimport C1 output images to Aperture (essentially using C1 as a large development plug in).

    I have tried two different approaches to getting the images into C1. The first, as you say, is use the Catapult plugin. The advantage of that is it can pretty well automate the whole process (you need to set up a process recipe in C1 to send the images back to the Pickup folder, but that's easy). It will stack your C1 images with the Aperture originals. However, it doesn't seem to end the metadata with the files to C1; so, you need to reapply the metadata (lift and stamp) back in Aperture.

    The other approach is to export masters with xml sidecar files for data from the Aperture library to C1 to develop. You can then keep the files in C1 and do all your outputting from C1. Or you could send the files back to Aperture and automatically import them using an Automator folder action. This keeps the metadata with the files.

    I'm not sure which is the better way for me.

    HTH
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  • RobiWan
    [quote="Maczero" wrote:
    I
    3. Expand hierarchical keywords (there are scripts for this - I'm not clever enough to write one myself).


    Why do you need a script for this? I mean you can save all keywords as simple textfile
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="RobiWan" wrote:
    Why do you need a script for this? I mean you can save all keywords as simple textfile


    The reason for this is nothing to do with C1. I agree that you can save hierarchical keywords in a text file and copy and paste them in C1. It is rather clunky though. I suggest this workflow because of an Aperture 'feature'. If you write a bottom level hierarchical keyword in Aperture, the library understands that it is a subset of a larger keyword group. However, if you export the originals (or processed versions) with metadata, Aperture doesn't write the rest of the hierarchy on export. Hence the need for a script.

    If adding (and removing) keywords were easier in C1 then I wouldn't suggest using Aperture. However, as things stand at the moment it is hands down quicker compared to C1.
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  • RobiWan
    [quote="Maczero" wrote:
    If you write a bottom level hierarchical keyword in Aperture, the library understands that it is a subset of a larger keyword group. However, if you export the originals (or processed versions) with metadata, Aperture doesn't write the rest of the hierarchy on export. Hence the need for a script.


    Yep, I agree.
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  • BobRockefeller
    So, the best I can tell, there really is no effective way to round-trip to C1 from Aperture. ☚ī¸

    Catapult can send a RAW file out of Aperture without Aperture trying to convert it, which is good. But C1 wants to import the resulting file, not just open it. And that's where the flow ends.

    Still digging...
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  • RobiWan
    [quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
    So, the best I can tell, there really is no effective way to round-trip to C1 from Aperture. ☚ī¸


    I'm not sure because I can't/ never used this Aperture Plug-In. I think its work the same was as "Open Directly" for Lightroom.

    Now if yes, there are 2 Things that are important.

    1. You need C1 running in Session Mode, because Catalog Mode needs a Import of course
    2. C1 should be running if you give them a Image from Aperture, because then C1 "read" only the one image and not the completely directory

    Maybe it help you 😊
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  • BobRockefeller
    [quote="RobiWan" wrote:
    [quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
    So, the best I can tell, there really is no effective way to round-trip to C1 from Aperture. ☚ī¸


    I'm not sure because I can't/ never used this Aperture Plug-In. I think its work the same was as "Open Directly" for Lightroom.

    Now if yes, there are 2 Things that are important.

    1. You need C1 running in Session Mode, because Catalog Mode needs a Import of course
    2. C1 should be running if you give them a Image from Aperture, because then C1 "read" only the one image and not the completely directory

    Maybe it help you 😊


    That might help! I've been using C1 in Catalog Mode.

    After I finish the edit in C1, how to I get it back into Aperture?
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  • RobiWan
    Since I'm not sure because I do not use Aperture and the plug-in does not know. But I think you'll need to start import new images (you saved the Picture in C1). I prefer here - Outputfolder is the same Picturefolder !

    Or another way - create a folder for all your C1 Pictures, and such a AppleScript like "HotFolder.app" and define them as your hotfolder. Always if there a new file is coming Aperture import it automatically
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  • BobRockefeller
    [quote="RobiWan" wrote:
    Since I'm not sure because I do not use Aperture and the plug-in does not know. But I think you'll need to start import new images (you saved the Picture in C1). I prefer here - Outputfolder is the same Picturefolder !

    Or another way - create a folder for all your C1 Pictures, and such a AppleScript like "HotFolder.app" and define them as your hotfolder. Always if there a new file is coming Aperture import it automatically


    I have something partially working with Aperture and Catapult.

    Do you know of a way to have C1 save it's edit instructions as a sidecar file of some sort?

    If it can, I can get Catapult to send those instructions back to C1 for a non-destructive round-trip.
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  • RobiWan
    [quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:

    I have something partially working with Aperture and Catapult.
    Do you know of a way to have C1 save it's edit instructions as a sidecar file of some sort?
    If it can, I can get Catapult to send those instructions back to C1 for a non-destructive round-trip.


    That is not possible to my knowledge. But even if it were possible, what you would have them?
    All RAW Converters I know are working non destructive. If you send a RAW file to C1, then C1 will create a SubFolder of your Picture/RAW file folder named "CaptureOne". In this folder saved C1 all previews and edits of your photo. Else if send again the same Pictire you see immediately what you have done last time.
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  • NN635312785285747094UL
    Bob

    Yes C1 when using Sessions will save .cos files which seem to be settings files in the same folder where the RAWs are located in a folder called Capture One.
    If you add the .cos extension to the list of supported files to Catapult and change the Settings folder to the Capture One folder Catapult will read in the .cos file and it can be embedded in the Aperture Metadata.

    The problem I ran into was when sending the file back to Capture One for re-edit. It seems that Capture One wants the .cos file in the Capture One folder. If the .cos file is in the same folder as the RAW Capture One will not recognize the .cos. At least this is what my testing found.
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  • BobRockefeller
    [quote="NN635312785285747094UL" wrote:
    Bob

    Yes C1 when using Sessions will save .cos files which seem to be settings files in the same folder where the RAWs are located in a folder called Capture One.
    If you add the .cos extension to the list of supported files to Catapult and change the Settings folder to the Capture One folder Catapult will read in the .cos file and it can be embedded in the Aperture Metadata.

    The problem I ran into was when sending the file back to Capture One for re-edit. It seems that Capture One wants the .cos file in the Capture One folder. If the .cos file is in the same folder as the RAW Capture One will not recognize the .cos. At least this is what my testing found.


    True! I told Catapult to look in the Capture One/Settings70 folder for settings and it recognized the .cos there.

    But. Every export from Aperture of the same file (assuming you might want to change something in C1), creates new files and new settings. ☚ī¸

    At least as far as I can tell now.
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  • BobRockefeller
    I've written up what I've learned so far at: http://www.bobrockefeller.com/blog/aper ... round-trip

    Please add anything there that you know of.
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  • RobiWan
    [quote="RobiWan" wrote:
    [quote="Maczero" wrote:
    If you write a bottom level hierarchical keyword in Aperture, the library understands that it is a subset of a larger keyword group. However, if you export the originals (or processed versions) with metadata, Aperture doesn't write the rest of the hierarchy on export. Hence the need for a script.


    Yep, I agree.


    I'm pretty sure that the script was linked here in the forum. But I can not find it.
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  • Eric Nepean
    I also am using Catapult to go from Aperture to Capture One Pro. But perhaps I go a little further, my thinking is as follows:
    Note: Work in progress - not perfected yet!

    If I use Aperture for DAM, the C1P is for Raw conversion, and initial (and looking more like all) editing.

    So to start the ball rolling I import raw files into Aperture sort them, organise them, keyword them and so forth. I decide which are the best, and use Catapult plugin to export the best (as a batch) to C1P. The RAW files and XMP filess end up in Catapult's Drop folder, which C1P sees as it catalog import folder.

    C1P is started, I import the files into the catalog, RAW conversion and editing, and then export as TIFFs to the catalog pickup folder. Now go back to Aperture and Catapult, Catapult picks up the Tiffs, imports them into Aperture and associates and stacks them with the original RAWs.

    Clean out the catalog pickup and drop folders.

    Notes:
      -I have to correct the version name in Aperture, the lens name is now missing from the metadata - perhaps this can be improved though better settings
      -Need to think carefully about what to do with the Catapult drop folder
      -Need to sort out what Aperture Catapult does with the original file - currently it is treating as a managed file, I want referenced files.

    Now suppose I decide the editing has to be modified; I don't want to start over.

    C1P still has the files in its catalog. No need to import Raws again!

    So I start Catapult again, export, Start C1P, do not import into C1P, find the previous file and edits in the C1P catalog, adjust the edits, export to TIF to catapult pickup, Catapult imports and stacks the new edit in Aperture. Copy the Metadata from the old edit to the new edit. Reapply any Aperture edits from the old edit to the new edit (cropping possibly).

    Note: Need to think about catalog organization.

    ++++++++++++++++

    Comments? Suggestions? I've only done a small number of images yet.
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