Using DAM Software with CO 4
I am just starting to look into using digital asset management software to keep track of my photos. The first I have downloaded is Expression Media since it is suppose to work fluidly with Capture One. I would like any links or information on how best to incorporate its use in a work flow. I have viewed the videos and they do explain the operation of each software but nothing as how they work together. I can organize my files quite easily in Exp. Media but have not found a way to easily take a random selection of raw files I would like to re-edit and get them into CO 4. Pardon my ignorance on using DAM software, I know Phase one claims the two are a marriage made in heaven but I have not got them into bed yet.
JOHN
JOHN
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John,
I am having the same problem.
I do not think that the problem is limited to working with MS Expression Media (MSEM).
I have also tried MSEM and came accross the problem that CaptureOne (C1) is not presently able to accept specific images or folder locations passed to it (by the operating system).
I confirmed this by writing a special Windows Scripting file and checking that everything was being passed to C1 correctly.
Put simply C1 seems to ignore anything passed to it by the operating system.
The only way around this that I can presently see is to generate a Session file for each specific disk directory where image files are located then starting C1 by double clicking on that session file. ( C1 could also be opened by calling this Session file in a Windows Script.)
This doesn't realy solve our problem but gets us a little way there.
What is realy needed is for C1 to be able to :-
accept a passed image file,
create a session file at the image file's location (if not already existing)
with session specific Output, MoveTo, Capture and Trash folders, and
open C1 using the Session file (old or new) at the image location.
As PhaseOne has been pushing the combined benefits of C1 and MSEM let us hope that they are going to quickly release an update that allows MSEM and other DAMs to interoperate with each other. (After all it is not going to benefit PhaseOne or Microsoft if the combination of the two softwares cannot be utilised.)
In the interim, as C1 will open Session files that contain specific folder locations it could be an interim measure if C1 were to publish the construction of their Session files. If that information was in the public domain then someone could create a Windows Script that created a session file for a passed folder location (if one does not exist at that location already) and then run C1 by 'running' that session file.
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By the way :-
Although it will presently still have the same problems as MSEM in terms of interacting with C1, have you looked at IDimager as a DAM software ?
(I am presently looking into DAM software myself and have found it difficult to identify something that does what I want. Reading the IDimager manual indicates that it will suit my needs, is cheaper than MSEM, BUT, is only geared to work with image files and not other media such as MP3s videos etc.)
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Sorry if I have not solved your/my problem but until PhaseOne suitably update C1 to work with other applications I do not believe that interactive working with any DAM software will be possible.
Can anyone else help us ?
Lets hope that PhaseOne are actvely persuing this problem.
Malcolm0 -
....without revealing to much, we actively pursuing this..
Capture One 4.7 is not that far away and there will be some nice surprises in this area.
But I can at the same time also say that it will at the same time require MSEM2 with service pack 2.
So you can already now prepare and download the service pack 2 for Microsoft Expression Media 2. 😄0 -
Ulf,
Many thanks for the info.
I do hope that ;-
C1 v4.7 appears before my trial period of MS Expression Media expires.
Operation with other 'professional and semi-professional' DAM software will follow.
I believe that PhaseOne would benefit enormously by providing interaction with other DAM software other than MS Expression Media.
Will PhaseOne be publishing sufficient detail of its update to allow Windows Users to write a Windows Script allowing at least some level of interaction with other DAM software ?
Failing this would PhaseOne be willing to release the structure of their session files ?
(I assume some form of non-disclosure agreement might be needed.)
Malcolm0 -
Thanks for the input. Here is how I am working around it right now. I found that for me, I like Acdsee better than Media Expression. If I create an album in CO, then drag and drop thumbnails from a search within Acdsee into a CO album folder, I can then edit all the photos which are updated within their respective folder. I found this to work on Acdsee, Media Expression and also Idimager. For my purposes the $49.00 Acdsee does the job.
I am looking forward to to the next CO update.
JOHN0 -
John,
Thanks for the idea.
It looks like a useful work-around for now.
Unfortunately for me, this work-around does not work with my present DAM software (Adobe Photoshop Elements 6). (It does seem to work with MS Expression Media.)
I hope that C1 v4.7 isn't far away.
Malcolm0 -
C1 v4.7 isn't far away ... but the problem remain unsolved with the "partner and mate" Microsoft´s EM2 SP2 ... or am I wrong Ulf?
Sincerely but disapointed - Tiberius0 -
I personally do not even think of using any Microsoft related software if it comes to organizing my images. I don't know what your 'feeling' is about proprietary software, file and/or database management and to what extent you are willing to put trust in the sustainability of corresponding DAM interfaces. I have already learned at least a few lessons.
As I attach much importance to data integrity combined with every capability available to import as well as export my image related attributes (e.g. keywords, categories, names of persons and places) I came to a solution that employs a 'free' but nevertheless powerful database in conjunction with a suitable interface to manage image files and all related information.
I don't intend to advertise for the software I use here. Maybe that would not comply with the board's regulations. Only that much:- the software handles every common type of image file (including current RAW files of course)
- you find your images within fractions of a second
- practical and batch supporting features to index/tag your images (e.g. during import or any time later)
- Meanwhile I have agreed with the software developer that the database also includes the *.COS sidecar files from C1 when RAW files are inserted into the DAM application (the developers are very cooperative!)
- the only thing that still annoys is C1's specific folder structure that we (C1 users) have to cope with
Anyone who might be interested in that application may send a private message.
Just my two cents, Michael
P.S.: I don't earn any cent for this recommendation (unfortunately - should change this...) 😉0 -
Michael,
I would happily send you a 'private message' if I knew how to ?
Your profile does not list any contact information and I cannot find this capability listed within the forum topic listing.
I too have witheld my e-mail address from my profile.
How do we make contact (to find out which DAM software you are talking about) ?
Can you tell me how to send you a 'private message' ?
Malcolm0 -
Malcolm,
You are right. I did not find any button "send private message" either. Within the board preferences I have seen something like "Allow users to send you private messages:" - strange... ❓
I have updated my profile. There is no e-mail field. Please feel free to contact me via my website (menu item "Contact").
Michael0 -
[quote="Malcolm" wrote:
came accross the problem that CaptureOne (C1) is not presently able to accept specific images or folder locations passed to it (by the operating system).m
v4.7 solved the problem at least w/ the specific image (tested using XnView) !0 -
[quote="Michael" wrote:
I personally do not even think of using any Microsoft related software if it comes to organizing my images. I don't know what your 'feeling' is about proprietary software, file and/or database management and to what extent you are willing to put trust in the sustainability of corresponding DAM interfaces.
Hi Michael,
All DAM databases are proprietary. Microsoft Expression Media (xMedia) offers to get your info out more ways than any other DAM app I know. xMedia can catalog *any* file format including PhaseOne's COS files.
Since Capture One 4.6.3 the DAM workflow has gotten easier. We can now download and annotate in xMedia. Capture One will now respect and parse embedded (legacy) metadata to converted TIFFs and JPEGs.
-- Robert.0 -
Hi Robert,
I do not object to your initial statement in so far that at least from a certain point a DAM application is proprietary. Of course the complete solution you can buy may be proprietary even in most cases. What I tried to point at is that I appreciate a database that meets common SQL standards and which allows me to access, alter and migrate its contents to any suitable other database if I like to or if I need to (maybe because the original database is no longer supported).
I know the structure of every single table in my database. I can access it even by just using the commad line (which of course is not very comfortable but sometimes very powerful).
I have tried to find out which database Microsoft Expression Media employs (which I know emerged from iView Media which was supposed to be a good software) but I did not get to know. Perhaps you can tell me? To me it still appears like a 'black box' that may work very well but which may also lead to a dependency to this specific product.
I found a review on xMedia which might a bit outdated in the meantime. For those of you that try to get some more information I'll post it here: Review
Robert, I sincerely wish you every success with the solution you prefer. May it serve your needs for years to come.
Michael0 -
... and what about sending files from xmedia2 sp2 direct to CO4 4.7 is it working for you Robert since was a "golden" promise from PhaseOne?!? 0 -
Tiberius,
re - CaptureOne v4.7 for Windows
I know you directed your question to Bobert but I also have an answer.
However that answer splits into two major parts ;-
Part 1:
Sending images from MSEM2 to C1 ;-
In Windows - if you right click on an image in MSEM2 and select the helper application C1 then there is still no integration (C1 fires up - but not in the right location nor with the required image).
If you drag & drop an image onto C1 (or onto a shortcut for C1) then C1 opens up with the correct image selected in the correct location and if needed generates its usual directory sub-structure.
i.e.
Some improvements have been made to C1 but there is still not full integration between MSEM2 and C1 when using Windows but, we cannot tell who needs to do further work. (I have been told that passing images from MSEM2 to C1 within the MAC environment now works so it might be that MS have correctly updated things as far as MACs go but have not got it right yet for Windows. Alternatively it might be C1 for MAC that is OK with more work needed in the Windows version.)
Whichever - There is obviously work being done to achieve the passing of images between MSEM2 and C1 (we just have to wait until both sides have got it right).
Part 2 :
Getting a newly C1 processed image into MSEM2 ;-
There seems to be no advance here.
If you pass a file from MSEM2 to C1 (using drag & drop) then -
If you work on an image in C1 without creating a new version (e.g. a new TIFF version) then the original image display (the thumbnail) in MSEM2 is not updated to reflect work done in C1. (But this might not be expected if a new (say TIFF image) was not created in C1, as the MSEM catalogue will still be referencing the original RAW image not the newly created TIFF image.
If you work on an image in C1 and create a new version (e.g. a new TIFF image) then the MSEM2 catalogue is not automatically updated with the new image (you could probably employ folder watching to achive this).
MSEM2 still does not have any acceptable 'versioning' capability.
But according to the MSEM2 forums this is a capability that has been asked for quite some time and quite often by MSEM2 users.
I can only assume that incorporating a useful versioning capability into MSEM2 is not a priority with Microsoft.
Malcolm0 -
[quote="Malcolm" wrote:
Some improvements have been made to C1 but there is still not full integration between MSEM2 and C1 when using Windows but, we cannot tell who needs to do further work.
I bet the M$ is at fault - when I call C1 v4.7 (win) from XnView (http://xnview.com) it (C1) opens the right image in the right folder... which means C1 accepts the command line parameter (filename) passed to it from XnView... unless M$Em2 tries do to something tricky (not using simple ol' style command line parameters to call C1).
here is how C1 is called (according to Process Explorer from Sysinternals) for example - "C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 4\CaptureOne.exe" D:\TEMP\G1\IMGP4263.PEF
C1 properly parses the command line parameter to navigate itself to the right folder and open the right image.0 -
Same for PhotoMechanic! Strange ideed why a such "fellow-mICROSOFT" product as XM 2 SP2 does not!?! Maybe Ulf knows more?!? ... but silence is gold! 0 -
Hi<
Tiberius Expression Media inherited iView's proprietary database. Microsoft intend Expression Media 3 to use a SQL database mainly to solve issues like multi-user and database size limitations. As I wrote, Expression Media gives photographers many options to get your data out, with having to peep inside SQL databases.
Michael drag and drop works but you are correct "Open with..." doesn't. There was a bug in Expression Media on Windows that truncated the image path so apps like Capture One couldn't find the original Raw file. While Drag and Drop works open with lets you do other things with scripting.
-- Robert.0
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