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8.1 and 8.1.1 let my PC crash hundred of time; 8.0.2 works

Wolfram Hölzel
Unfortunately thread with this problem is closed.

I haven't a problem to start C1 Pro 8.1 and 8.1.1 but after a short time (or long time) of working my PC is
- freezing
- shooting down
- freezing with black screen
- blue screen

Nothing help (OpenCl, driver update, net.framework repair, deinstallation and deleting all kind of important files and registry entries, ...). After different suggestion from support, I deinstall C8 Pro 8.1 and 8.1.1 complete, delete again all files/folders/registry and install 8.0.2 and finally it seems to work.

Now, my questions:
- Is 8.1.1 the next maintenance release from the thread: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=17822
- Are my freezes, crashes, ... a "folder" issue?
- Will be a solution with one of the next updates or is this a singular problem of my hardware/software configuration?

Hardware:
- AMD FX 8350
- RAM 16 GB
- AMD Radeon 7850
- Windows 8.1

BTW: I am very happy, that C1 8 is running again. I love this piece of software. 😄
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Comments

29 comments

Date Votes
  • Luke Miller
    I held off updating 8.0.2 to 8.1 since I had modified my Windows 7 folder structure and reportedly 8.1 would not work in my configuration. 8.1.1 works properly on my PC and the modified Windows folder structure does not seem to bother it. The one problem I experienced was the 8.1.1 updater corrupted my three catalogs when converting them. I had to open a new empty catalog in order to get stable operation. Then I could use the catalog repair function and all has been well since.
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  • Stefan Hoffmeister
    [quote="Wolfram32" wrote:

    - freezing
    - shooting down
    - freezing with black screen
    - blue screen
    ...
    is this a singular problem of my hardware/software configuration?


    The symptoms you describe are at the lowest level of your system. Either your hardware has issues, or the drivers for the hardware are bad.

    Frequent root causes:
    - Power supply is not capable enough (to also feed the graphics card)
    - System is not properly cooled
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hi Daffy,

    this I also believed in the beginning. So I pull up graphic cards and case fan to maximum. Never had temperature over 41 °C of CPU or GPU.

    Power supply: I have 530 Watt Enermax Revolution XT Modular. This problem I have not, if I play games; even actual games like Dragon Age. I can't believe, that C1 needs more power.

    When I check the power consumption, my complete system need power of 350-420 Watt (include the 2 Monitors; they need 150 Watt). So I guess, it is not the Power supply.

    Maybe the RAM? I have 16 GB, the freezes was at about 4,1 GB. But memtest didn't show any errors.

    My problem is also, what changed in 8.1 (crashes) what was no problem in 8.0.2.
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  • SFA
    Wolfram,

    Are you using Catalogues or sessions?

    In either case I would suggest running the verification process if you have not done so.

    If you have multiple catalogues/sessions do they all give the same failures?


    Grant
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  • Christian Gruner
    Please a support case right away. Then our support can look into logs and so on.
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hello Christian,

    there is already a support case opened, but it doesn't lead to a solution (until now).

    Edit: SFA: Just Sessions (new and old).
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  • SFA
    [quote="Wolfram32" wrote:

    Edit: SFA: Just Sessions (new and old).


    Do you create new sessions from a previous session or a template or do you make them from the New Session option?


    Grant
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hi Grant,

    One time, I delete all old Session and make a new, when the startup-screen appears. I am not sure, if this is the "New Session option".

    Edit: 😭 Again freeze (Must do a Hard Reset), when I start to convert 2 images in jpg. The next possibility: RAM?
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  • SFA
    [quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
    Hi Grant,

    One time, I delete all old Session and make a new, when the startup-screen appears. I am not sure, if this is the "New Session option".


    Hi Wolfram,

    File > New session. ( CTRL+N)

    Each session has a session database file that links its contents together.

    If you have created a completely new session the cosessiondb file will be fresh and should be sure to be uncorrupted.

    As with every computer system there is some small potential for file corruption that may or may not cause problems. (You do not need to delete old sessions if testing a new session.) If you start C1 and there are no existing sessions it will need something to work with so will ask you to create a session. (Or Catalog).

    If all sessions, old or new, present the same problems when using different (preferable un-edited) images files then it would at least suggest that the data files are not the source of the problem.

    If, on the other hand, a new session with new image files works OK it might indicate that that there is a problem with a file somewhere in the previous sessions.

    For example about 2 years ago I have some problems with a session in V7 - freezing, crashing and so on. Very random. By chance I spotted a corrupt thumbnail related to the session. It would not repair so I deleted that edit file (deleted all variants from the browser, and the problem was resolved.

    I added a new edit for the file which worked perfectly and the session was fully usable once again. Just a glitch - but on that resulted in problems appearing far away from there the problem files was visible - but obviously not so far away in the connecting database!

    These things happen - fortunately they are very rare.

    Whether you problem is similar we cannot yet tell but making some tests that might help to eliminate the possibility (like creating a new session with new files (or at least unedited files) to see whether the problems exist with it is quite easy and a good basic test.

    If the problems persist then I think you certainly need to work with support to analyse the log files, etc.

    If a version prior to C1 8.1 works then suspicion would fall on anything that has changed for the newer release.

    As for Windows 8.1 - I cannot comment. I have Win 7 and feel comfortable with that.

    HTH.

    Grant
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hello Grant,

    thank's a lot for your explanation. Now I understand it a little better. One time I delete all databases, I can found (there was some old in some directions). But I'll make a new one and will report what happened. Once again, thank you for your help.

    Kind regards,

    Wolfram
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    I forgot to ask one question:

    1. STRG + N: I have done this.
    2. Can I now set the "capture", "trash", "output" "selects" folders to my old folders? How I understand you, I first should check with complete new files, folders, etc.?
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  • SFA
    [quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
    I forgot to ask one question:

    1. STRG + N: I have done this.
    2. Can I now set the "capture", "trash", "output" "selects" folders to my old folders? How I understand you, I first should check with complete new files, folders, etc.?


    For testing purposes it would make sense to use the new folders for a completely clean system.

    More importantly in the longer view the concept of a session is to be a self contained item. It makes it easier to manage and archive for example.

    From my personal view I cannot see any reason to point the default folders to other locations when processing a session. The exception might be for some outputs - when passing to another application for further processing perhaps or for sending to a folder that is backed up to the cloud - but you can do this without reference to the session folders anyway.

    The folders are only created for convenience. You do not have to use them as you know.

    Capture is really intended for tethered shooting. In previous version there were 2 types of session created, one with the Capture folder and one without. The difference seemed a little unnecessary to me. If it stays empty it really does not matter.

    Trash is just an intermediate session trash folder that allows you to easily reverse things within the session if you change your mind and wish to reinstate an image.

    Select is just an useful tool for grouping the files you want to keep (or want to process in the current part of the project work) It is a physical collection of the files in a new folder. You can point the "Select" function to a folder of your own creation if you wish but when still processing it is probably "cleaner" to keep things within the session during the processing phase of the project.

    Output is, perhaps, a little more flexible in interpretation but personally I keep the Output master folder within the session because I hardly ever export to another application and never within my workflow.

    I am not sure (because I don't do it) what effect pointing the functions to your own pre-existing folders might have. If those folders already contain processed files then I think C1 would read those files and their edits and add them to the new session - which is not what you would want for testing purposes and not useful if any of those files being read in has some sort of problem that would also be imported.

    If you just want to create your own new empty folder with your naming convention then I would see no problem - although perhaps no real purpose either. (It really does not matter much what name a folder has in my opinion during the processing phase of a session.)

    If you create a new session and then add the files to folders related to existing sessions I think things could get confusing. Personally I would avoid that. (However I do sometimes add existing RAW image folders to more than one session although usually only when experimenting with images that are not very important.)

    For my purposes I use Capture when shooting tethered. I almost never use Trash or Select. I use Output and often sub-folder within Output for files of different Output specifications but I would not expect such files to cause problems in the session if they are just output. However if you open the folder(s) as a session folder or "favourite" the output images will be read into the database again as files available for editing which I suppose could lead to some strange results especially if you overwrite a file with a new version. As I never do that it is not a problem for me.

    So yes, for testing use completely clean sessions and see if you get the same crash problems. If you do have the same problems it would suggest (but not prove) that is is not a data problem with the input data but something deeper in the system or application settings.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hi Grant,

    I appreciate your answers. It help me a lot, to understand what C1 is doing. I have alread a folder for all of my RAWs (like 2014/04, 2014/05 ...), because the most of my photo are just hobby. Only a few are doing for my work.

    I have not used the catalog feature, yet, because in the beginning it lead often to crashes. My DAM-Software for cataloging is IMatch 5. But after your explanations, I try the "catalog" feature and import my folders, just to see, what happened. I got one "error", that a layer can't be adjustet, but until now, it works quite stable (8.0.2). I will test it further, after this I will intall 8.1.1 and make first a new session (empty), import some files and create after this a catalog.

    Thanks again for your great help.

    Kind regards,

    Wolfram
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  • SFA
    Hi Wolfram,

    I don't use catalogues. Sessions suit me better.

    If you use sessions you can leave you RAW files in your folder structure and use them without any need to import them at all.

    If you point the session to a folder that already has Capture One edits files within it the new session will use the edits already made. This may or may not be what you want for the new session!

    If you import to a session you have the opportunity to perform other tasks at the same time (apply styles, rename, decide where the files should be stored, etc.). It would also allow the creation of a copy of an original file to be used in the new session andto be managed as part of that session for archive purposes .... but all of that is maybe a little more complicated to consider at this point when we are trying to work out why you have the problems you have described.

    For what it is worth I can say that running Win 7 I have not seen such problems with any of the C1 V8 releases you have tried. Whether that is meaningful for your Win 8.1 system and your own files may be open to questions!

    From memory there were some enhancements to the layers functionality between 8.0.1 and 8.1 - that might explain the error you saw reported. On the other hand there might just be an error related to the problem layers file that could, just possibly, be causing problems with CO 8.1 and 8.1.1. in some way related to the Session database file.

    That is very much a guess on my part BUT if the error advised which file had the problem you could check the theory by working with a session that does not include the file(s) and another that does to see if one is stable and the other not stable.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hi Grant,

    for me, I guess the catalog suit me best, because every now and then I made new jpg-images from my old Raws and would my archive. And it seems stable like session (with 8.0.2). I never thought about the possibilities with the tool "session", but you are right, what a great idea. 😊

    Now to the problem. So far, I try a few things:

    8.0.2
    • Catalog - 1 freezes 3 hours of work; quite stable


    8.1.1
    • "old" catalog from 8.0.2 - 1 freezes after 7 minutes

    • new catalog with import just 2 folder [300 images, no errors during import] - 2 freezes after around 10 [zoom] and 15 [clarity] minutes

    • new session with just 10 images - no freezes, but this has no significance, because it don't need a long time.


    All the time, I look at my temperature; it was always at max. 41 °C. I will test it further, but wait for new drivers for my graphical card and for 8.1.2 or 8.2; maybe there will be a solution. And it seems that "phase one" haven't an idea for the solution either. 🙄
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  • SFA
    Hi Wolfram,

    Stay with your clean (10 image) session and add another group of images to it. Let's say another 50 and just play around with it to see what happens. Scroll quickly through the browser, select all the images and make a change or star selection or something. That type of activity. If it stays the same and no problems, add some more images.

    Keep a note of which images were added at each stage. If you get to a point where you have problems you can then add another session with just the last group of images added and work with that session to see if the problem re-occurs. If so that MIGHT indicate a data problem with one of the images or the edits for it.

    If you manage to load into the clean session all of the images used in the catalogues, etc., and yet still have no problems that would suggest that it is not the data files that are the cause. HOWEVER it would not prove where the cause my be either.

    As for using catalogues ... I am considering making a "master" catalogue from my jpg output files as an historical record. But it only makes real sense it I fully keyword everything first and the size of that task may not be worth the effort for older images. Without the older images the catalogue has little purpose ... And so on.


    Grant
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hi Grant,

    thank you for your advice. This I'll try.

    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    As for using catalogues ... I am considering making a "master" catalogue from my jpg output files as an historical record. But it only makes real sense it I fully keyword everything first and the size of that task may not be worth the effort for older images. Without the older images the catalogue has little purpose ... And so on.


    I already have a huge catalog (beginning years ago with ACD See Pro --> Microsoft Expression --> IDimager Pro 5 --> IMatch5). One Catalog I just use for my private images and it is important to find persons fast. My second catalog is just for nature images and the systematic of the species (long hierarchical structure... 😄 ).

    I made my catalog in the beginning only for my jpg. After this, with versioning with IMatch, I can automatically found the RAWs for my jpg-Images [could shown as a pair]. For me, this is very useful.
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  • Jari A
    I also 8.1 crashes immediately. 8.02 is operating normally!
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    @ Jari: Can you post your hardware and software? Maybe we (edit: better our system) have the same issue?
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  • Jari A
    [quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
    @ Jari: Can you post your hardware and software? Maybe we (edit: better our system) have the same issue?



    Are you talking about the information that I have added a profile?
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    @Jari A: Ok, we have complete different systems. 😊 Have you already open a support case?
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  • Jari A
    [quote="daffy" wrote:
    [quote="Wolfram32" wrote:

    - freezing
    - shooting down
    - freezing with black screen
    - blue screen
    ...
    is this a singular problem of my hardware/software configuration?


    The symptoms you describe are at the lowest level of your system. Either your hardware has issues, or the drivers for the hardware are bad.

    Frequent root causes:
    - Power supply is not capable enough (to also feed the graphics card)
    - System is not properly cooled


    I have the same problems after update 8.1, but not 2.08 after update. Never before has there been problems with Capture One software in the past.
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    I recommend, that you also open a support case. Maybe they find the problem faster.

    Have your windows show some minidumps?

    The recommandation of the support team was, to repair/activate all parts of 4.5 .net.framework
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  • Malcolm Payne
    This is just a random thought suggested by Wolfram32's last post, but there are known issues with the current 4.5.2 .NET release that affect Corel Painter 2015, also DxO Professional and some others I believe - I wonder if that might have anything to do with the C1 problem? Corel are currently recommending that systems with .NET 4.5.1 are not upgraded, or else that the .NET framework is rolled back to 4.5.1.

    Alternatively the 4.6 .NET preview can be downloaded from Microsoft. It appears stable on my system and it has caused no obvious problems with my C1 8.1.1 installation, but then I didn't have any problems before with that version of C1 either.
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hi Malcom. Thank you, this seems interesting. Is there a easy way to make a roll back?
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  • Malcolm Payne
    Instructions from Corel for reverting from .NET 4.5.2 to 4.5.1 on Win 7 and Win 8 can be found at http://howto.corel.com/index.php/Corel: ... n&kb=true&

    Contrary to Corel's statement, the issue with Painter 2015 (won't start at all) is not confined to machines with tablets attached but occurred on both my production machine with a Wacom Intuos 2, and on my laptop with the trackpad disabled and only a mouse attached, so is more widespread than the link suggests. Neither did unplugging the tablet before starting make any difference. I don't have DxO but found the reference to problems with that and other software under .NET 4.5.2 on a web search.

    Rather than downgrade to .NET 4.5.1, I installed the 4.6 Preview, initially on my less critical Win 8.1 laptop and later on my Win 7 production machine when no problems surfaced with any important software. It solved the issue of Painter not starting and I haven't discovered any conflicts with anything else, so I would cautiously suggest that it's probably stable and safe to install. YMMV and normal caveats about ensuring you have a backup apply, of course.

    Good luck!
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Hi Malcom,

    thank you a lot for the link and your experience. By the way: Could this happend because of Wacom? I have the intuos 4.

    @ Jari A: You have a Wacom too?

    My system get a backup yesterday, so I'll look at the preview. 👿 😁
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  • Wolfram Hölzel
    Preview-Version 4.6 doesn't help either [uncontrolled restart]. 🙄
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  • Jari A
    [quote="Wolfram32" wrote:
    @Jari A: Ok, we have complete different systems. 😊 Have you already open a support case?


    yes I opened a support request 😊
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