Panasonic GM1 support?
I had expected GM1 support to have been there by now, GX7 support is available for some time now and these two cams are very similar from a image pipeline perspective. Actually, changing the EXIF of GM1 files GX7 actually produces good results in C1, but this is not a preferable workflow. Please also include support for the GM1 12-32 lens. When can we expect support for this tiny gem?
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It is a paradox that so many will happily purchase a camera from a manufacturer that can't be bothered to make available an at least half decent raw converter that will see users through for a couple of months.
Does that mean they have never seen a proper raw file conversion from their new camera? If not, does that mean that tech specs rather than image quality is the deciding purchase factor?
I'm frustrated that there aren't profiles available in C1 for all my Nikkor lenses, but it is all too easy to say to others that what they must? do is easy.
The "must" part of this is debateable: P1 of course is a business, it's not Santa, is not morally obliged etc. etc.
Let's all take a breath.
Cheers,
Mogens0 -
I think that camera support is a lot more important than lens support - if a lens isn`t supported it doesn`t mean that you have to use a different RAW converter to get the job done, you just miss out on a few niceties like exact distortion correction (7`s intelligent CA removal works very well), if the camera isn`t supported, you`re stuffed ...........
There is something weird going on with Panasonic in general regarding Capture one - for some bizarre reason files from supported cameras take considerably longer to develop than others with the same pixel count - in fact the 16Mp G3 (or GX7 etc) images (12 bit) take up to four times longer than 24Mp 14bit D7100 files or those from the 1DS-III, makes no sense . the problem isn`t there with Olympus, even for ones with Panasonic sensors ..........0 -
It's not wierd, really, it's plain simple.
Som manufacturers are better at providing cameras than others. That has a direct impact on implementation time (but is, of course, far from being the only factor).0 -
[quote="Adam52" wrote:
I think that camera support is a lot more important than lens support - if a lens isn`t supported it doesn`t mean that you have to use a different RAW converter to get the job done, you just miss out on a few niceties like exact distortion correction (7`s intelligent CA removal works very well), if the camera isn`t supported, you`re stuffed ...........
There is something weird going on with Panasonic in general regarding Capture one - for some bizarre reason files from supported cameras take considerably longer to develop than others with the same pixel count - in fact the 16Mp G3 (or GX7 etc) images (12 bit) take up to four times longer than 24Mp 14bit D7100 files or those from the 1DS-III, makes no sense . the problem isn`t there with Olympus, even for ones with Panasonic sensors ..........
Adam,
Just for clarification here, are you saying that the profiles for the files take longer to become available or that the files being processed in C1 take much longer to process? I assumed you meant the process times but having read Christian's comment I am no longer sure.
Grant0 -
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
It's not wierd, really, it's plain simple.
Som manufacturers are better at providing cameras than others. That has a direct impact on implementation time (but is, of course, far from being the only factor).
Christian,
Do you mean that obtaining equipment to test is a problem when talking to some manufacturers but not others? Or are you saying that there is something about the way the files are handles and (perhaps) documented that makes the task of creating and testing a good set of profiles more challenging?
(Or perhaps both?)
Grant0 -
As per our company policy and practice, we will not offer support for a Camera unless it is reviewed first hand, in-house (the exception being "Preliminary" support in some rare instances).
Sometimes Manufactures prefer to send us an example that they deem to be an acceptable unit for measure, sometimes they allow us to simply buy one from a store or borrow one from a rental company. Every agreement is different and, out of courtesy, the manufacture has the say in how this is done.
In this practice, some camera support comes easy and some does not.
And...to play devils advocate, from a manufactures perspective, would it not be advantageous to send a software company the more expensive model to support as appose to the less profitable model? (GX7 vs GM1?) 😉 😉
As a camera company is a business like any other, there is business strategy to many things that I think many users overlook. We, Phase One, are ALLOWED to support cameras. It is not a right, it is a privilege and sometimes the politics behind support are an unfortunate hardship for the users.0 -
""Just for clarification here, are you saying that the profiles for the files take longer to become available or that the files being processed in C1 take much longer to process? I assumed you meant the process times but having read Christian's comment I am no longer sure.""
As I said, Panasonic files for some bizarre reason take considerably longer to process than files with far higher pixel counts from other makers (a 16Mp G3 or even worse GX7 file can take 4X longer to process or view at pixel level than a 20Mp samsung, 21Mp 1DS3 or 24Mp D7100 file) , even cameras from Olympus with the same sensor take a fraction of the time - this wasn`t the case in Version 5 ...... Using DNG isn`t an option as the colour is miles off and the DNG converter now embeds unwanted lens corrections ...
I can understand a Fuji file taking a lot longer as they use a weird unorthodox filter array but the Panasonics use standard Bayer .
as for the support thing I wish there was an "open" option for the converter to see the RAWs from the unsupported models and give the user the option to choose a profile - for instance, there`s an Oly EPL6 - only sold in a couple of places , it`s the same as the EPL5 in every way bar some minor tweaks (Firmware mainly) .0 -
Now that we have version 8 - still no Panasonic GM1 support.
Any chances of remediating this situation? My humble ask would be for PhaseOne to approach Panasonic and/or procure a camera through retail channels ($500?) to enable support.
The motivation is quite clear: Many photographers are carrying multiple bodies. If you're a m43 shooter, GM1 is the perfect choice for an "invisible" camera with reasonable IQ.
Without support in CaptureOne, consistency between pictures shot with another body (OM-D, GH, ...) is much harder to achieve and requires an "unnatural" workflow, using a secondary raw converter such as Lightroom, DXO, Silkypix, ... or one of the many others that do support GM1 (so much for the conspiracy theory that Panasonic doesn't want professional raw support for the GM1 to drive GX7 sales).
Thanks for your consideration.0 -
The GM1 and GX7 are totally different markets so I doubt there`s a conspiracy there . no one is going to opt for a camera 3X the size because of a RAW converter - they MAY buy an Olympus EPM however which is closer to the size. 0 -
To recap the current status:
1. We can use a hex editor to change "GM1" to "GX7" in the raw files
2. This tricks Capture One 7/8 into working perfectly fine with those raw files
3. PhaseOne officially refuses to enable (even if it would be "experimental") support for GM1 - not giving users a choice if they want to use the "untested" camera without resorting to the desperate and inconvenient .raw file patching strategy.
@PhaseOne - please reconsider !!!0 -
Come on P1, this batch file below works (on Windows), but why should I have to duplicate all my files? Your software is very good, so for now that's what I'm willing to do to benefit from its excellent quality -- but why ???
echo off
mkdir gx7
FOR /R %%a IN (*.rw2) DO copy "%%~a" .\gx7
cd gx7
c:\tools\gsar.exe -sPanasonic:x00DMC-GM1 -rPanasonic:x00DMC-GX7 -o *.rw2
exit0 -
Back in the Capture one 5 days, you used to be able to hack a file from the software to change cameras using a hex editor - managed to get unsupported Panasonic and Nikon cameras working like that , classic was changing G1 to G2 , GF1 to GF5 D80 to D60 etc .. C1 radically changed the way it worked in version 6 so I doubt these kind of shenanegans would work now with V7 or 8 , though it may be worth investigation , you just need to find which file has the camera designation profiles in and look for the close one - say GX7 - and alter all the instances of GX7 to GM1, as I say it worked in the Version 5 days ..
for cams without the same number of characters in the name, there was a tool which ran under DOS and changed the EXIF data in whole folders of RAW files so that the D700 became the D3, the D90 became the D300 etc ..
All worked just fine .
DNG works with the GM1 but DNG converter thesedays does very unwelcome automatic lens corrections on conversion and it can`1 be disabled either in DNG converter or in Capture one (you can`t use the lens correction tool with DNGs full stop) also the DNG`s from converted GM1 RAWs have awful colour0 -
I investigated possibilities to patch the executables; as you suspected, it's not a simple search and replace.
One downside of using GX7 profile with GM1 is that the borders are a bit cropped (at least compared to the same raw file in DXO). I don't know if that is a limitation that is caused by differences between GX7 and GM1 or by the different raw converters.
Otherwise, patching the RAW files works for the purpose of being able to open them in C1; however, I'm playing it safe and keeping the originals, effectively doubling my storage requirements.
Hoping for P1 to come around and help us out here.0 -
That Batch file is great Moriz as it allows both the GM1 and GX7 to "exist" where hacking the DLL with the camera handlers in wouldn`t ....... GSAR is what worked with the D700 too if I remember rightly , I`ll have to learn how to set it up , the Samsung NX3000 has the same sensor as the older cams (1000, 300 etc) , the new Canon G7X and the panny FZ1000 have the Sony RX100 sensor (Could GSAR fix that ?) .. the RX100 Mk3 isn`t covered in C1-V7 but the Mk2 is etc . 0 -
Since we're not patching the program binaries, I don't see any harm from trying the batch file with other cameras/substitutions. Definitely worth trying.
Re: my earlier point, cropped borders, I found out that that was a "stuck" setting in the cropping tool, I changed it back and am now getting a view of the full image as captured.
GM1 with this workaround is 100% functional in C1 v8.
Even more annoying that PhaseOne haven't given in (yet?) and are officially supporting the GM1.0 -
I checked using a modded version of your batch and it worked fine with no cropping anyway .. to be honest, there`s no need to save two versions even if it was cropped, you could write a reverse batch to convert them back to GM1 at any time .. all I noticed is that you need to lower saturation, otherwise they look the same as GX7 images . Phase One could fix this in minutes and add support but ........... as for support - the GX7 is still "preliminary" and they`ve not fixed the OpenGL bugs they introduced in 7.2.3
Works great for me as it is in 7 ... BTW no amnesty for those who bought a few months ago, it`s full upgrade price , no movement so I won`t be bothering to upgrade to 8 . when it gets so far out of date as 5 is now, I`ll upgrade then to 10 or whatever LOL) and keep hacking RAWs to work0 -
Despite the let down with camera support I feel that version 8 is a big step forward. Better local contrast, better noise reduction, I'm starting to use the selective corrections/layer system, better oob profiles for many cameras, including Olympus OM-D E-M1. Enough "better" to make me want to buy. 0 -
Great - Version 7 was a big step from 6 too (I trialled it and ditched it, 6 if anything was a step back from 5) .. does 8 migrate your settings from 7 ? 0 -
From what I have seen (this may be incomplete information, i.e. not apply to all parameters), version 8 retains settings from 7 per image, requires manual "upgrade" to apply v8 engine by clicking on a corresponding development option. 0 -
I don`t understand the "Per image" thing, I delete all the crap in the cache etc after conversion .. I want it to retain all my settings such as per camera settings of NR, sharpening etc which you can set ti to remember per camera as defaults ...... it used to be global defaults in V5 and earlier but it`s done per-camera in 7 .. also stuff like how I have the toolbars setup with what selections etc . 0 -
Not the most recent topic here, but still hope you guys and PhaseOne crew is having a look into it 😉
I just pushed again a support case regarding another Panasonic camera, my G5 is said to be fully supported, but there is no "lens correction" support, whereas my older G3 had pretty ok lens corrections.
From what I understand here, PhaseOne need a camera physically (in Copenhagen?) to support it.
They want the maufacturer to send it. Another possiblity mentioned in the beginning of the topic would be to get the camera from a store.
Why not even a 3rd possibility: allow C1 users to send THEIR camera to PhaseOne to better support it!
Regarding some arguments about niche products, I understand as well the effort to support every camera.
Sometimes, I think Panasonic is also to blame: it is a a big consumer electronic company with a camera department, their behavior is in many ways quite different from other manufacturer where the camera is much more important.
And about lens support, I actually chose a Panasonic especially because they offer "in-body-lens correction".
I still do not understand why they forced big player like Adobe to support this "in body lens correction" while not letting PhaseOne to have that, at least optionally/complementary to in-house calibration.
The alternative would be the "auto correction" data saved in the Panasonic file.
The algo has been published here:
http://syscall.eu/#pana
This can be read in ExifTool
http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/
in the PanasonicRaw.pm file!
In C1 v8, for my supported G3 camera, I see along the lens and generic profiles a so called "Manufacturer profile". Any idea what it is?
PhaseOne Support told me once (about Olympus lens on G3) that the lensID is kind of encrypted, and therefore C1 cannot apply automatically a lens profile as it does e.g. for Canon CR2 files. But again, open souce tools like exiftool manage to do so.
I still hope better support for theµ4/3 system, I think a very welcome light weighted alternative to DSLRs (sold my 7D for G3 replaced latter by a G5)!0
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