Profile vs. no profile values
I've been looking at Capture One's profile architecture trying to get a better understanding of how it works. It seems simple enough, assign a camera profile on the white balance screen that generally matches your camera/lighting condition. Then assign a destination profile, which would typically be an RGB working space profile such as Adobe 1998. Finally, make sure an accurate monitor profile is selected and what you see on screen should be a match to the actual sceen (within the limits of the process of course).
There is something with the way C1 is doing things that doesn't make sense to me. I would think that by selecting different camera profiles and taking readings from an image (ColorChecker chart for example), the resulting destination profile values should be different each time. Let's say I select No Color Corection as the camera profile and Adobe 1998 as the destination. If I read patch 7 on the ColorChecker chart the values are
Current = 221,120,50 --> Adobe 98 = 216,142,176
Change camera profile to P30 Product Flash
Current = 221,120,50 --> Adobe 98 = 227,121,51
Change camera profile to H101 Generic
Current = 221,120,50 --> Adobe 98 = 213,144,62
As you see the camera profile selected affects the RGB values that result in the destination space. (BTW the P30 & H101 profiles were just selected arbitrarily for testing purposes)
Now, do the same procedure but read a couple different gray patches, patch 21 & 23 respectively.
No color Corection
Current = 169,170,170 --> Adobe 98 = 182,183,183
P30 Product Flash
Current = 169,170,170 --> Adobe 98 = 182,183,183
H101 Generic
Current = 169,170,170 --> Adobe 98 = 182,183,183
No color Corection
Current = 64,64,68 --> Adobe 98 = 83,83,87
P30 Product Flash
Current = 64,64,68 --> Adobe 98 = 83,83,87
H101 Generic
Current = 64,64,68 --> Adobe 98 = 83,83,87
So it appears that regardless of the camera profile in use, the gray patch values remain constant. Not only that, they are as if no camera profile is even being applied since the NCC profile produces the same results as the other profiles.
I'm not trying imply that something's wrong I'm just trying to undersatnd why this is. Specifically what I don't undestand is why the values, in relation to actual camera profiles, are the same as the values in relation to no camera profile on the gray patches.
There is something with the way C1 is doing things that doesn't make sense to me. I would think that by selecting different camera profiles and taking readings from an image (ColorChecker chart for example), the resulting destination profile values should be different each time. Let's say I select No Color Corection as the camera profile and Adobe 1998 as the destination. If I read patch 7 on the ColorChecker chart the values are
Current = 221,120,50 --> Adobe 98 = 216,142,176
Change camera profile to P30 Product Flash
Current = 221,120,50 --> Adobe 98 = 227,121,51
Change camera profile to H101 Generic
Current = 221,120,50 --> Adobe 98 = 213,144,62
As you see the camera profile selected affects the RGB values that result in the destination space. (BTW the P30 & H101 profiles were just selected arbitrarily for testing purposes)
Now, do the same procedure but read a couple different gray patches, patch 21 & 23 respectively.
No color Corection
Current = 169,170,170 --> Adobe 98 = 182,183,183
P30 Product Flash
Current = 169,170,170 --> Adobe 98 = 182,183,183
H101 Generic
Current = 169,170,170 --> Adobe 98 = 182,183,183
No color Corection
Current = 64,64,68 --> Adobe 98 = 83,83,87
P30 Product Flash
Current = 64,64,68 --> Adobe 98 = 83,83,87
H101 Generic
Current = 64,64,68 --> Adobe 98 = 83,83,87
So it appears that regardless of the camera profile in use, the gray patch values remain constant. Not only that, they are as if no camera profile is even being applied since the NCC profile produces the same results as the other profiles.
I'm not trying imply that something's wrong I'm just trying to undersatnd why this is. Specifically what I don't undestand is why the values, in relation to actual camera profiles, are the same as the values in relation to no camera profile on the gray patches.
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This is Exactly the question in my mind when I decided to come online tonight and look for the answer in these forums. And it is Exactly the kind of question that drives me crazy, I have several other questions about how C1 Pro handles RAW files. Unfortunately, no one has responded to this one. Is it because the question is too basic......? Or too complicated......? Or no one cares.......?
Any answers are appreciated, thanks!0 -
[quote="Ernesto"] wrote:
I guess Phase are using some software to create the profiles which systematically remaps the grey axis in the same way. This is perfectly reasonable.
For example, the white Colorchecker square will be mapped to a certain "almost white", the black to "almost black", the greys to certain specific intermediate values. That way every profile generated by this software with the settings Phase are using has the same density gradation scale, and the look's density is homogenous whichever profile and camera you use.
Edmund0
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